[ Hypnos Forum ]

OTHER THINGS IN THE WORLD THAN MUSIC => Everything and Nothing => Topic started by: zzzone.net on February 26, 2011, 02:22:39 PM

Title: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: zzzone.net on February 26, 2011, 02:22:39 PM
I just tried to rip a CD-R labeled as follows: Bertom Cabot Jr "When Children Sleep" on Eleven One Records from 2000.

(http://zzzone.net/files/sleep.jpg)

The CD-R itself is unrippable due to "frame errors" and the artist is not Googlable or on discogs.com.

Any clues?

Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: mgriffin on February 26, 2011, 04:12:39 PM
I've never seen that CD before, nor heard of the artist, but maybe someone else on the forum has a non-self-destructed copy of the disc they'd rip for you. Anyone?
Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: Altus on February 26, 2011, 04:45:27 PM
I predict said CD-R has a label on it?

I've discovered over the years that the glue on most labels eats the top layer of the disc, and the data is sitting on that top layer.  For those curious, DVD-R is a different story.  The data layer sits between two layers of plastic so it's safe to apply labels.

You could try contacting the artist here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/elevenonerecords

There's a track that appears to be from the CD in question (judging by the description) from the same user:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OXQLXni2Gs

Good luck!   :)
Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: zzzone.net on February 26, 2011, 06:11:17 PM
I predict said CD-R has a label on it?

I've discovered over the years that the glue on most labels eats the top layer of the disc, and the data is sitting on that top layer. 

You hit the nail on the head.  Very pretty but destructive paper label on the CD-R.

At your suggestion, I sent a comment to the "keeper" of the Eleven One Records YouTube channel.  I'm not going to hole my breath.  I fear Mr. Cabot Jr is now more ethereal than ever.
Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: Bill Binkelman on February 26, 2011, 07:25:57 PM
The man behind the curtain of this pseudonym and others (e.g. synthuser) is one Daniel Byerly and, having known him since the late 1990s, one thing I can tell you about him is he is a man of integrity above all else. He is 100 percent no-bullshit. If your message finds him, he will respond. The man is the real deal. I have had contact with literally hundreds upon hundreds of people since I started reviewing in 1997, and Daniel is someone who stands out as a genuine person with no pretensions and who I know has no hidden agenda. He may be a bit reclusive, but if you reach him, I doubt you will be let down. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: ambient789 on February 28, 2011, 07:52:34 PM
I am guessing that the laser heat causes a chemical reaction with the paper glue/adhesive and the plastic? Anyone have a link that explains "CD-R rot?"
Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: zzzone.net on March 05, 2011, 12:49:19 AM
I got in touch with Daniel Byerly via the YouTube group.  He graciously offered a replacement CD which is still working.

I sent a note to Sara Ayers yesterday for a similar problem with two of her CDs.
Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: zzzone.net on March 06, 2011, 06:48:39 AM
I heard from Ms. Ayers about replacement files :)

I'm glad I'm going through my collection and archiving the ones that have not deteriorated and finding the ones that have deteriorated.

Hey, this is yet another advantage of the file format!
Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: Numina on March 06, 2011, 10:28:14 AM
jimzzzak - have you come across very many CDRs without paper labels that have failed?
Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: zzzone.net on March 08, 2011, 05:48:22 PM
jimzzzak - have you come across very many CDRs without paper labels that have failed?

I've come across approximately 5.   I've also come across the notorious CD rot on a "regular" CD or two.  Fortunately for me, the problem does not yet appear to be too common.  I hope to archive most of my music over the next year or two to avoid further losses.
Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: Altus on March 09, 2011, 06:43:09 PM
... and I remember people saying CDs would last 100 years.   :P
Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: cromag on March 09, 2011, 11:47:35 PM
They'll probably last much, much longer than that ... in a landfill.  The music, of course, will be lo-ooo-ong gone.  ;)

That being said, I've had pretty good luck with my CD-Rs.  I've been burning them for about 12 years and I've only had 2 or 3 go bad in storage.  (I'm fudging -- I can actually remember only 2, but I suppose there may have been a 3rd.)  I've always burned CDs at the slowest speed my set-up allowed (used to be 4X, now it's 8X) and I store them in dark, cool places.
Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: Altus on March 10, 2011, 05:16:45 AM
I store them in dark, cool places.
This is key. I always knew sunlight and any form of optical media was a bad mix.  However I discovered recently that any light is bad (such as fluorescent and incandescent) for optical media.  Of course, burnable media is more susceptible.
Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: Seren on March 10, 2011, 05:44:25 AM
complete left field question here -

Is it possible to have a transparent CD in the same way we had clear vinyl in the past?
Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: Scott M2 on March 10, 2011, 07:52:29 AM
Since it's all based on laser beam reflections, it would be like vinyl without grooves.
Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: jkn on March 10, 2011, 08:36:06 AM
"like vinyl without grooves"   

Now *that* is an album title waiting to happen!
Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: Seren on March 10, 2011, 01:04:29 PM
2 way mirror type stuff? light from laser reflected back down....being able to see down - except, Doh!, we'd be able to see the laser.......
Title: Re: This ambient music will self-destruct in 11 years...
Post by: cromag on April 13, 2011, 09:07:47 PM
They'll probably last much, much longer than that ... in a landfill.  The music, of course, will be lo-ooo-ong gone.  ;)

That being said, I've had pretty good luck with my CD-Rs.  I've been burning them for about 12 years and I've only had 2 or 3 go bad in storage.  (I'm fudging -- I can actually remember only 2, but I suppose there may have been a 3rd.)  I've always burned CDs at the slowest speed my set-up allowed (used to be 4X, now it's 8X) and I store them in dark, cool places.

And tonight I'm bummed out.  :'(

I just bought a large external hard disk with the idea of finally bringing some order to my music files.  I'm trying to put all my CDs on it as WAV files, from which I can get MP3 files for my players.  I tried to rip Gert Emmen's Live -- A Long Way From Home (a limited edition CD-R -- I have number 120 of 200) using EAC (Exact Audio Copy).

(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd160/cromag_pix/GertEmmens_live.jpg)


It failed ... dismally.  Just churned away on Track 1 for 10 to 15 minutes before I put it out of its misery.  So I put it in a CD player -- very, fuzzy and static-y.

I think the last time I played it was about a year ago.  I've got it on my computer as MP3s, so not a complete loss.