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OTHER THINGS IN THE WORLD THAN MUSIC => Computers, Internet and Technology => Topic started by: saulstokes on May 30, 2011, 09:34:16 PM

Title: Social Website Burnout
Post by: saulstokes on May 30, 2011, 09:34:16 PM
In the last few weeks I've been feeling like It's getting harder and harder to stay up-to-date with all the things your "suppose" to do to do as a musician to promote your music. I have been looking at some companies that offer packages that allow you to easily maintain a web presence but also offer ways to disperse your news to other sites like facebook. One of these sites is called GUGUCHU.COM. Reverbnation is another.  These sites allow you to create stores, presskits, mailing lists, rss news feeds that go out to your social network sites etc. etc.  Some of them charge a monthly fee which I guess would be ok if it would make managing everything easier. However, on closer look most of them don't seem quite right for me. Perhaps they're better fit for new singer songwriter type musicians etc.

Has anyone here seen anything online that is like GUGUCHU but more appropriate for electronic musicians? Meaning, I don't want another social network site. I want something that can serve as the central brain for my music, news, cd sales and promotion.

This is what's became of me:

Tunecore
saulstokes.com html
Facebook - finally broke down and made a page...
Lastfm


Other sites people tell me I need to have
Twitter
Soundcloud
Ping

Kind of getting ridiculous.  ?? :) How are we as artists suppose to manage all this and still write music? Maybe I need to get an Kramerica Intern.





Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: Julian Ray on May 31, 2011, 03:13:24 AM
- Sites like Reverbnation are full of people, who is trying to promote themselves. So I really doubt someone will seriously read all these "mailing lists" and "feeds". The musicians, promoting themselves to musicians...  Sound useless.

- Twitter... To spend hours on chatting just in hope that someone will occasionally notice your message sounds also useless to me.

- Facebook maybe is a good place where you can find and contact with your fans, but the price will be the same - a lot of time for a small piece of attention.

I'm not going to say that situation is hopeless, but you definitely can't do all this AND write music :)

Good luck with it.
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: jkn on May 31, 2011, 07:37:33 AM
Oh yeah - there are so many places, so many ways - you can spend way too much time.  My experience:

facebook - great for casual conversation - things that are quick and only get a few comments.  I mostly "chat" there with people that I don't normally chat with - and I also found family I never knew I had.  (seriously)

myspace - sorry my_____ now.  let's move on.  I still have an account that i see once a quarter or so.

twitter - personally i like twitter - it's especially nice from my phone - but not in a promotional sense - just a personal sense.  I've found a few friends there and I like connecting with them now and then.  I've found music through twitter i may have never discovered - so ... ok - there is some benefit there. 

reverbnation - I need to delete my account there - i never connected with it.

soundcloud - great place to post music - and then use as widgets elsewhere (reverbnation also does this).  I don't really do much actual communication through it - although i do comment on people's tracks on the timeline (something I still haven't seen implemented anywhere else- being able to comment at exactly the 2:36 mark to point out how great that one synth sound is - or to point out a pop/glitch the artist probably didn't intend... wow - awesome.

.............

http://relaxedmachinery.ning.com  <---- my favorite place for highly biased obvious reasons.   Bonus:  if you post a status update on a Ning community like rM - it can auto-update your facebook and twitter status.  I update twitter a lot that way.   (you can selectively turn it on and off by post - very easily).    You can also update twitter and facebook for your blog posts.


John (a bit of a social whore)



Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: jkn on May 31, 2011, 07:41:14 AM
Oh!  Forgot - I started to look into the sites that spread the word about what you want to post and update and found the cost didn't really fit the benefits for me personally.  I agree that many are more geared to pop / rock type of things.  If I find one I will definitely post about it.
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: einstein36 on May 31, 2011, 11:24:24 AM
yes, definitely I think we have hit the technology wall to where we are so overwhelmed that we get stress in our lives just trying to keep up with it all:)
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: mgriffin on May 31, 2011, 02:15:41 PM
I agree with Saul.

The list of "presences" one is expected to maintain has grown to the point where it's a bit much even for a person who's online and in front of a computer pretty much every waking minute.

I already see signs of Facebook beginning to morph into Myspace. I'm getting more and more "Hey, release my album!" messages on FB, from people I've never heard of before. Very often they send a friend request, then start hitting my wall with a ton of self-promotional crap immediately.
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: Julian Ray on May 31, 2011, 03:59:16 PM
Quote from: mgriffin
... Very often they send a friend request, then start hitting my wall with a ton of self-promotional crap immediately.
Unfortunately I have the same situation on my FB page. Finally just decided to "unfriend" everyone whose messages on my wall is self-promotional. Sometimes it really looks like "self-promotional obsession"  :-\
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: saulstokes on May 31, 2011, 11:23:11 PM
One thought I had was to start these accounts and then basically have a bio page and a link to your own website. That way you're at least "there" when it's in to be "there" and not much effort has been put into it.

John, I looked back at your blog offering on IM and it's really cool as it shoots out to other social sites. Very nice. I think RM is great so far.
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: mgriffin on June 01, 2011, 06:02:39 AM
Your idea of having a "placeholder" presence on social media sites sounds good, Saul, but I think you'd still have some burden to deal with A) friend/follow requests, B) posts to your "wall", especially of the unwanted variety, and C) direct messages.

I do occasionally see a Twitter account where someone has a bunch of followers, but they aren't following anybody themselves. Sort of a one-way broadcast function.
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: jkn on June 01, 2011, 09:12:55 AM
I am glad people like the rM community - now that I'm back to work and back to normal routine after my nose surgery (deviated septum, bone spur up there, tiny airways widened...) - I'm back to posting my not quite every day news updates... Saul you'll see your post mentioned:   http://relaxedmachinery.ning.com/profiles/blogs/motd-kelly-david-sleepmode (http://relaxedmachinery.ning.com/profiles/blogs/motd-kelly-david-sleepmode)

Before anybody goes - hey!  you're posting about rM on the Hypnos forum!  I try and promote all new Hypnos releases over there and I also link to discussions here now and then when they're hot and heavy cool ones...   Speaking of... Mike you should mention your new short story over there - or I can post about it for you.

John

p.s.   Maybe facebook will start getting like myspace where it can start auto-accepting friend requests for you...  yippee - what an idiotic update that was!

p.s. #2:  twitter - yeah - people who follow no one and aren't super celebrities... are annoying unless it's specifically a news broadcast account (like Taylor Deupree has a 12k_label account just for label news and then his personal account is separate - I started to do that with my rM label - but gave up...)

p.s. #3:  I drastically cut back on the number of mailing lists and forums I was on a couple years ago - and gradually added a few new ones in the last year or two - but overall - I only check here at Hypnos, at the rM community, facebook, and twitter with any sort of "daily" or every few days regularity.   I am on the ambient mailing list at Hyperreal - but it emails me and usually is dormant.  That's it now... I used to be on a ton of communities...  It was too much.

p.s. #4:  Mike - wanna release my album???   LOL!   kidding.

Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: mgriffin on June 01, 2011, 09:17:08 AM
I don't have any problem with you talking about RM, either the community or the label, on this forum. So let no man complain!

I'd say "man or woman" but everyone knows there aren't any women listening to this kind of music anyway! ;)
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: jkn on June 01, 2011, 09:22:20 AM
 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

So... Lena's a man??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

You weren't kidding about those five surgeries!

...not that there's anything wrong with that...   
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: jkn on June 01, 2011, 09:24:06 AM
rM vs. Hypnos - there's overlap - but neither totally replaces the other.   That's my feeling and why I'm a regular here (and have been for a decade).
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: APK on June 01, 2011, 10:35:03 AM
Now if only RM had a good forum.
And Hypnos let you add flash and youtube videos.
 8)
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: jkn on June 01, 2011, 12:10:42 PM
LOL!  You just nailed it APK.   

The forum on Ning is bad enough that I've just tried to convince people not to use it at all and instead always post blog posts.
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: hdibrell on June 01, 2011, 01:05:27 PM
I have a fairly  small presence on the web. I used to follow quite a few forums and lists (mostly concerning specific instruments and Analog Heaven) but I hardly look at them anymore. I have a Facebook account which I use mostly for finding old friends or them finding me. I've belonged to the Hypnos forum for quite sometime and have been on RM a short time. They are the only forums I look at any more and really enjoy both.
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: mgriffin on June 02, 2011, 09:58:35 AM
I have social website burnout but I think the solution is to keep addition social website accounts until I'm on all of 'em.

;)
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: Numina on June 02, 2011, 10:56:17 AM
Saul - I think many of us electronic musicians are in the same boat - especially us Americans. In addition to posting to the Hypnos Forum and rM and a handful of the e-lists to network (speaking of which I never see posts on spacemusic e-list anymore) I think you should set up a FaceBook artist/music page (looks like you just did? - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Saul-Stokes/113538502068257?ref=ts&sk=wall )

At this point, aside from some key contacts, I don't bother with promoting much because there's just too much muck to weed through and I'm afraid it will only get worse and takes an inordinate amount of time with little to no response.  The good news is you have a pretty big name in the EM scene and hopefully past and present fans will continue to keep track of your work and continue to return to your future music.  We also have at least 5 decent radio programs in the US that do reach people.

More importantly, I don't know about the rest of you, but I almost only sell CDs to folks outside the U.S. - it's probably about 95% within the past year - Europe, Canada, and Australia are consistent places I send tunes to - and they all still LIKE CDs!  The U.S. is not receptive to this music like it used to be (although I do anticipate a turnaround at some point), people here are not buying as many CDs, and the fan base is really small in the States.  My point being if you do spend time on networking and promo, I suggest looking into radio programs and reviewers and forums outside the U.S. while continuing to send the usual stuff to (at least) Bill Fox, Eric Meece, Diliberto, Renee Blanche, and Star's End for Stateside support.... or maybe I'm just too old fashioned.
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: Julio Di Benedetto on June 03, 2011, 05:23:40 PM
I would say for myself Im not burnt out but more likely lost as to what and where to be web-wise.

I quickly ruled out Facebook, Myspace, Twitter as colossal waste of time and energy, and a waste of time regarding EM and its various genres..... that being said Im still signed up with all of them. For touring Indie alt rock bands....its a different story.

First and foremost people need to be able to hear your music and then purchase it with the least amount of hoop jumping.....I feel thats pretty mush taken care of with the artist that post hear, though I would mention the pit falls of sites like cd baby as far as audition the music.....30 sec sound clips dont cut it.  As a retail e store I imagine its fine, but not without another site where fans can listen to a few minutes worth of music per track and or an e radio on your website that streams a wonderful flow of your sonic flavours

Blogs.....these do offer the fan a chance to get closer to the everyday of the artist / record label, but also require quite a commitment to stay on top of.  Today we have bloggers for hire.  Yeah right!

So whats left......enter the Hypnos Forum,  sounds like enter the dragon, a lot more gentle, same spirit.  I have been here off and on since 2000 AD, more or less, and this forum has been for me a home to return to, a place where I can discover more ambient/electronic music than anywhere else that I have ever come across.  From the "Now Playing", to "Non Hypnos Artist" and of course the ever expanding Hypnos catalog of music. I have purchased more music via this forum than anywhere else

As for my own music, I have sold more cds though the Hypnos forum than anywhere else, humble though those sales maybe.......So kudos to Mike Griffin for being a guiding light when all else seems somewhat dark.

Cheers!




Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: hdibrell on June 03, 2011, 09:25:36 PM
"I have purchased more music via this forum than anywhere else"       Yeah! Same here. I make most of my purchases through Hypnos. It's a really good source of info and a great bunch of people.
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: Numina on June 04, 2011, 08:01:51 AM
I have to say that personally I think a FaceBook band page will provide you with more exposure than any other site - at least that's been my experience. Frankly, I was reluctant to create a personal FB page, but my wife forced me... after creating my Numina band page I have noticed more traffic and activity from that than anywhere else - although admittedly I don't participate in many of the online sites. I think the reason for this is the average person is more on FB than they are actively searching specifically for ambient music and when people start to thumb through other people's music likes thenthey come across your page... it's effectieness is similar to how MySpace was - I don't even bother with MySpace anymore, its interface is absolutely awful - so is FaceBook's but not nearly as bad.

Anywho, I'm just wanting to suggest my opinion that FaceBook is a promo tool not to be overlooked.
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: Julio Di Benedetto on June 04, 2011, 11:08:52 AM
Anywho, I'm just wanting to suggest my opinion that FaceBook is a promo tool not to be overlooked.

I think this may be true in your case Jesse and Saul.....2 very talented musicians with a catalogue of excellent music, respect from the em community and fans excited about new releases and other sonic adventures.  Without this Im not so sure. My experience has been other wise , but then I am not in the same position as you or Saul so that may have a lot to do with it.
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: Julio Di Benedetto on June 04, 2011, 05:32:40 PM
I would also like to point out the very successful El Hadra Ornaments Bundle forum release which has sold out, and Im happy to say Im one of the hundred.  This was brilliantly done.  Great artists, wonderful music.  Imho this illustrates the promotional reach forums like Hypnos & Relaxed Machinery have.
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: petekelly on June 06, 2011, 11:30:28 AM
Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that social networking is over-rated for an artist - well for an ambient artist anyway. Particularly considering the time needed to maintain and update multiple profiles. I agree with Saul having your own site as a 'node' behind all these profiles is a good idea. I think the days of having (say) My space as a sole artist page without some kind of artist website may be coming to an end. Even with Soundcloud (which looks cool), I'm not convinced about the value of doing all the 'networking' that is needed to get things going.

Regarding exposure, I think airplay is more significant. Somafm, Stillstream and others all 'broadcasting' 24/7 every day certainly gets the music out there.

I also look at Lastfm too to see what is being listened to. I also created lots of videos for YouTube
as that seems to be where a lot of people are these days. Apart from updating the LuminaSounds site, I don't spend much time on the social networking sites for exposure these days.
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: jkn on June 06, 2011, 11:48:29 AM
I would also like to point out the very successful El Hadra Ornaments Bundle forum release which has sold out, and Im happy to say Im one of the hundred.  This was brilliantly done.  Great artists, wonderful music.  Imho this illustrates the promotional reach forums like Hypnos & Relaxed Machinery have.

Awesome - as that bundle from Tomas Weiss / el culto was exclusive to his (and Mathias') long time fans - and to here at Hypnos and the rM community.   He approached me about doing it special - and I suggested it also be here at Hypnos as well.   It sold out fairly quickly - I don't think it took a full month to sell out the 100 copies.  One of the two discs was totally exclusive to the bundle - the other is currently available.

My copy I think went in the mail yesterday along with one of Tomas' other albums... :-)

Back to the topic - I'll say it again - I'm not the greatest person to answer this question because I find a lot of entertainment in communicating with people through various networks, forums, and sites.   I'm just weird that way.   Yes I have gotten burnt out before and I took a break - but in general - I'm up for chatting about music or related topics (or unrelated... ha) - pretty much anytime.

John



Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: zzzone.net on June 06, 2011, 04:38:08 PM
As a very atypical consumer, I have a few habits to expose:

1.  I use discogs.com to link from CDs or music that I like to the musician and from there to the musician's website and/or record label and/or to other parties who have the particular musician's music for sale

2.  I don't use FB at all for music-related stuff as I find it too cluttered with comments and other crap I'm not interested in.

3. ...and a good Google search is sometimes very productive for finding out lots of bits of info from various sources as well as finding sources for acquiring the music legally.

4.  Hypnos.com is my fave ambient site for discovering new and interesting ambient music, via the forum and the store.

That's my "system".
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: saulstokes on June 13, 2011, 04:22:12 PM
Great comments everyone.  In response to the physical CDs.

Has any one else here tried to get on Pandora?  here's the process:

first, you need a upc symbol and a physical CD on Amazon. To do that, you either need an Amazon Advantage account or go through CD Baby both of which cost you money and which will result in very few cd sales. Once your cd is on sale on Amazon you submit 2 songs to Pandora and then wait.....wait.... wait.... wait..

I find it incredibly interesting that the lead "virtual" radio station requires a physical CD to be even considered. I guess this is there way to weed out a million mp3s being sent to them daily.

I appreciate all the responses here. It's very interesting to learn how people search out music.
s



Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: mgriffin on June 13, 2011, 04:38:01 PM
I can add your new CD to Amazon. Hypnos has a Marketplace Pro account so we can create new item listings.

I can't help you with the rest of it... ;)
Title: Re: Social Website Burnout
Post by: zzzone.net on July 02, 2011, 02:55:55 AM
I forgot to add that I do use last.fm a fair amount as far as seeking info on musicians and links to their own sites.

Additionally last.fm features links to the various places where you can get music.