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Messages - Sunbreak Music

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1
Everything and Nothing / Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« on: March 05, 2010, 02:18:31 PM »
It ends up causing all kinds of problems and driving away a lot people who want to keep it civil.
Consider me driven.  I don't need to see the conversation devolve more than presented in the first post.

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Everything and Nothing / Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« on: March 05, 2010, 08:11:29 AM »
Does this forum do this type of thing?

3


Set to a track from "Monjour".  It's HD and might pull a little on older machines.

Enjoy!
Cass


4
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Lexicon Goes Native
« on: March 04, 2010, 08:08:29 AM »
I have read it now... well the conclusion did say it all.. I guess the manual really gives a better insight in depth of the plugin...
Well..there should be no doubt any any ones mind now that has the same quality as the hardware units.. but in software form.
The doubt will be removed when I've heard it myself.  I'm funny that way.   ;D

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Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Scott Walker- The Drift
« on: March 03, 2010, 01:08:50 PM »
That's some weird stuff.

6
Everything and Nothing / Re: Board Advice
« on: February 26, 2010, 03:57:44 PM »
So I guess what I'm saying is...just play with your tools.
:D

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Everything and Nothing / Re: Board Advice
« on: February 25, 2010, 03:26:25 PM »
People dispense advice according to their own interests, or shoot down the advice of others according to their own interests.

Don't forget that it's also dispensed or shot down based on what they've read on the internet.   ;D

I personally don't find that much ambiguity in any of these topics--it's just a matter of what people want to do.  Which while fine, doesn't change facts. 

8
Everything and Nothing / Re: Pressed CDs and independent artists/labels
« on: February 22, 2010, 03:59:10 PM »
I'm sure that CDR's have added to the general overwhelming tide of releases which has both it's positive and negative consequences.

Personally I enjoy the sense that someone, somewhere is taking the time and effort to sit and print out all the parts of a music release rather than a big corporation churning them out industrially.

Agree!  (why elaborate?) 8)

As long as it plays.   ;D

9
Everything and Nothing / Re: Questions for artists and labels re: Piracy
« on: February 22, 2010, 03:58:26 PM »
Also, what's the deal with CD-r's?  I see them mentioned as a bad thing on this forum all the time; are they just CDs bought from Office Depot with a sticker on them to make them look better, or is it something different?
You can think of them that way because that is what they are, but there are variances in quality among brands.  There are also differences in drives that people use to burn them.  There might even be differences in software that's used.

In a nutshell, unless someone is doing data confirmation and C1, C2, and CU error checking, they have no idea how close the disc is to failure when it leaves their computer, or whether or not the data integrity of the material is in check.  There are tools for this stuff, though.

10
Everything and Nothing / Re: Projekt wants you to fight piracy!
« on: February 19, 2010, 07:47:30 PM »
But I think it is the states responsibility to take care of their citizens and to make a system that works for everyone. 

Man....did you ever lose me there.   ;D 

I'd walk away from it all if people were forced to subsidize me and my "art"........

11
For me, ambient has to be musical....or at least lead to music.  Something that has a basic structure of rhythm and harmony, and probably some melody.  Much of the stuff around here I put more in a "sound design" category--it sounds awesome, and I dig it, but it's not really "music" to me.  It's just cool textures that are interesting as an underscore....for a while.

That's interesting because I certainly disagree here. Does music really need to have structure, rhythm and harmony to be called music?
To me even a nice field recording is music. Or the sound of some ventilation system...  :D
The "experience" is a true musical one, so why shouldn't it be called music...

I know some of you hear things on that level--the same as an artist's "vision" affects the way they see and paint.

One of my first posts here was an offering of some field recordings of the Oregon coast.  While it's an awesome sound, and my favorite place to hang out...it still sounds like comb-filtered white noise to me, hahaha.

Maybe someday I'll be able to hear the "music" in everything..........

12
For me, ambient has to be musical....or at least lead to music.  Something that has a basic structure of rhythm and harmony, and probably some melody.  Much of the stuff around here I put more in a "sound design" category--it sounds awesome, and I dig it, but it's not really "music" to me.  It's just cool textures that are interesting as an underscore....for a while.

Some of the stuff that I really like are the Asche and Spencer Soundtracks "Stay" and "Monster's Ball"--the combination of sound mangling and more "traditional" forms of music.  Things that I tend not to really get into are albums where there are a couple of reverbs linked together and someone is just making sounds (I don't really consider that improvisation, either).  They might be cool sounds, and it might be a righteous space, but I need something more.  I also really like the last two Talk Talk albums "Spirit of Eden" and "Laughing Stock", but they have music and words, so I don't know if they count. 

I think most people would say "that sounds nice", but they would never buy it.  I don't think anyone could dislike "ambient guitar"--it sounds too cool.  But the bottom line is that it's not popular because it doesn't have a good beat and you can't dance to it.  It really is that simple, I think.


13
Everything and Nothing / Re: RQ015 - what are the "rules" of ambient music?
« on: February 17, 2010, 01:38:21 PM »

You've taken enough license to render it a silly question, and way out of context for the original point.   ;)


oh definitely and totally out of context...  but an easy one to pick on and have a little fun with.     ;D


p.s.   and somewhat on topic to the other thread - I loved the reference to mastering is like matting and framing a picture.

...but back to "ambient rules"

thou shalt always wave a haunted stick over your mixdowns    


* haunted stick reference to ebay auction discussed ad nauseum on the hypnos forum about 5 years ago...    



There's actually a mastering engineer who is popular with the New Age crowd that "passes all audio through crystals".  I ain't makin' it up.

If I just had those crystals!!!!

14
Everything and Nothing / Re: RQ015 - what are the "rules" of ambient music?
« on: February 17, 2010, 12:30:49 PM »
Scott...  I have one thing to say to you...

THANK YOU!

Ok that was two things.

If anyone's curious - this question stems from one of the 14 "mastering" threads on the forum where the "rules of ambient music" slipped into conversation (actually it was just rules of music, but I take poetic license with all of my random questions.).

You've taken enough license to render it a silly question, and way out of context for the original point.   ;)


15
Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Mastering from The Masters?
« on: February 17, 2010, 12:27:45 PM »
I more than agree Forrest,

Where did this freakin' myth come from that ambient music has no rules or standard or whatever?



you sound like a snob Paul, and your talk about musical and artistic rules and stereotypes that we ALL must follow is extremely uninspiring.


To me, he sounds like a professional giving advice based on personal experience, along with a take it or leave it clause.

16
Hypnos Label Releases / Re: RELEASE: Jeff Pearce - Daylight Slowly
« on: February 16, 2010, 03:40:33 PM »
Great album--first time I ever learned of "Hypnos"......

17
Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Mastering from The Masters?
« on: February 16, 2010, 03:37:18 PM »
The first thing you want to though when you receive an ambient mix is to change the reverb, that is the main difference between ambient artists I think, the professional use good reverbs, the younger generation use cheaper software reverbs.

All reverbs (leaving out spring- and plate-reverbs here) are software-based. It makes no difference to the sound/reverb quality whether the algorithm is implemented on a DSP chip or as IA32/64 instructions running on a common computer.
It does matter how good the algorithm is, and that can be dependent on what's powering it.

Of course (and you will read that from my statement) I assumed implementing the same algorithm with the same FDN characteristics.
Specialized DSP chips have their advantages in tasks like parallel processing (e.g. for the delay lines of the reverbration) but with today's cheap multicore CPUs they are getting more and more obsolete.
But this is getting way too offtopic now...

I was just trying to sharpen your point.   ;D

No "mastering topic" ever makes it in the long run.  Mastering means different things to different people, no matter how many times it gets defined....


18
Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Mastering from The Masters?
« on: February 16, 2010, 02:17:39 PM »
The first thing you want to though when you receive an ambient mix is to change the reverb, that is the main difference between ambient artists I think, the professional use good reverbs, the younger generation use cheaper software reverbs.

All reverbs (leaving out spring- and plate-reverbs here) are software-based. It makes no difference to the sound/reverb quality whether the algorithm is implemented on a DSP chip or as IA32/64 instructions running on a common computer.

It does matter how good the algorithm is, and that can be dependent on what's powering it.

19
Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Mastering from The Masters?
« on: February 15, 2010, 03:56:24 PM »
There's no need for mastering anymore. If anybody questions your glitch you can just say it was intentional!  ;-)

That actually is a funny point!  I've got a project in front of me right now and I can't tell if a clicky sound one was intentional or not.  I'll probably recommend that it gets taken out just because it "sounds like a glitch".   ;)

20
Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Mastering from The Masters?
« on: February 14, 2010, 02:30:25 PM »
Certainly recording can me "mastered" without adding any compression.  This approach is common in classical music, and many types of "audiophile" stuff, including jazz and other "purist" forms.  In those types of music, the dynamics are inherent in the performances, and you can really upset them by altering them in any fashion (and it's amazing how they can detect even the smallest amounts).

So, if it's "classical" approach to ambient music, and you're not concerned with "competing" with other material, by all means it can be done.  If someone goes that route, they have to understand that much of the material will be competing with the ambient noise level in any environment.  If I've got something along those lines, I'll pop it in my truck and take a drive down I-5 to see what disappears.....

Personally, I like the way compression can sound, so I'm hardly against it--even taking off a couple of dBs with a nice analog compressor can have a nice overall effect on the music.  It's really just whatever is appropriate for the material.

I have a couple of recordings on the Chesky label that I pop in to calibrate my ears occasionally.  It's really refreshing to hear music with no eq, compression, and all natural reverb sometimes.

Thanks for that reply. I understand that it is harder for uncompressed music to "compete" but does it really have to? I mean Ambient is certainly not that much suited for radio/tv/cell phone/car playback anyway and the listening situations are mostly similar to Classical music/Jazz/etc. A few months ago I had a discussion with a highly acclaimed European Ambient musician and he sees Ambient music very close to Classical music regarding mastering & mixing.
I tend to agree with him.


Currently listening to Sibelius' 1st Symphony and I really love those huge dynamics in the music. Almost inaudible Flutes and then *bang* the entire orchestra. Wouldn't Ambient benefit from such dynamics? Do you know any ambient album with huge dynamics?

It's a matter of taste, really.  I think the more textural type of music doesn't require it, but once you introduce "beats" or drums it often becomes necessary to keep them from overpowering the mix.  I really don't think of compression as a "leveling" tool as it's often described.  I'd much rather use it as a way to sculpt the sound and use volume adjustments to address wide swings in amplitude.  Compression is often just a "color", as any other effect you might use.  Some people compress reverb, and it can sound really cool. 

If there's an audience that actually sits and listens to music critically, I think they'd appreciate the dynamic range of classical as you do (and as I do).  But we're far in the minority in the way we listen to music.  Do you have to cave to it?  Nope, of course not.  But, you have to understand that your music will be the quietest in the ipod shuffle, and the listener will likely have to make a manual volume adjustment to hear it in relation to other material.  That's where a lot of this stuff originates.  They'll turn it up to hear it, then have to turn it down when the loud parts appear.

I don't really know of commercial releases of what I consider to be ambient music without any compression, but there probably are some.  I can tell you that levels are creeping up even in genres that traditionally were immune to it..... 

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