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Messages - ffcal

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I skipped around a bit, but one thing I noticed is that you tend to favor drones that occupy most of the soundspace.  I would try to dial some of those drones back into the mix so that other voices can poke out a little more clearly.  The high end seems a bit harsh in places.  Was most of this recorded as a realtime improv?  I would also vary the effects settings for each sound you introduce (eg, don't pan all of the echoed sounds from left to right), so that each one sits in a different part of the mix.  Some of the fatter drones seem a little preset-ish; I would try to dial down the LFO-wooshing, but that's just my stylistic preference.

Good luck.


Now Playing / Re: Currently listening, part 1
« on: December 12, 2013, 09:49:34 PM »
Hakobune - Nebulous Sequences ( a nice one released this fall on Voxxov that some may have overlooked--a double manufactured CD, too)
Aube - Metal De Metal (placed this one for the first time in a while after hearing that the man behind Aube, Akifumi Nakajima, had passed away a few months ago; textural and unique--using only sounds made from metal.  Aube was one of the pioneers of the industrial scene.)


Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Vangelis
« on: December 12, 2013, 03:57:17 PM »
Im still trying to figure out what all the hieroglyphic type symbols refer to.....a musical language of some sort.

Or maybe a language for varying parameters within a given program??  Or maybe touch pads that activate events in varying degrees, like a Buchla touchpad??


Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: effects - old and new
« on: December 10, 2013, 11:02:59 AM »
One possibility opened up by all this processing power we have now is the use of complex multi-effects configurations built by the user. You can build all kinds of crazy sound processing machinery using systems designed for this purpose like Max or Pure Data, or systems designed to be synthesizers with audio input options, such as Reaktor or the Nord Modular.

It's nice to see more options in this area, though I could see how difficult it would be to troubleshoot an increasingly configuration like this, especially in a live setting.

Something I've enjoyed doing from time to time for experimental purposes is wiring up a crazy, complex signal chain all through my studio, creating feedback loops along the lines of the things I've seen Eno set up. You have to include compressors or limiters in the loop so the setup doesn't just feedback on itself into an ever-increasing racket. Often this just creates a hum, or a throbbing oscillation, but sometimes it can be useful.

I've done this, too.  I started with the two open reel "Frippertronics" delay approach very early on.  It was fun to do, but the real work came in having to decide on playback what small portion of it might be salvageable.  Sounds generated from internal mixer/effects-related feedback is interesting, too, but your noise floor can ramp up pretty quickly.  One of pioneers in the mixer feedback area was David Myers, who went by the name Arcane Device.  I thought he created some great industrial soundscapes with just a mixer, an occasional effect  and feedback.


Julio, physical modelling is cool, but I was thinking of something more basic--using the features of the new box to alter and mangle an acoustic instrument's signal, much like an effects device does, but with much deeper integration within the box's own architecture and processing capabilities.  Something like this can be done in Audiomulch, but it takes a lot processing and memory that might cause things to lock up.  Many years ago, I remember hearing what I thought was a synthesizer turn out to be an electric guitar processed through an ARP or a Moog.  Within the digital realm, I could see the processing possibilities being potentially greater (things like spectral processing).  It's fun to speculate.


Immersion said to Paul:  "I find this quest for mediocrity fascinating by the way, you must really like to swim in these waters... "

As you would say, Immersion, this sort of personal attack is "crap" and doesn't belong in this forum.  I've learned from my practice as a lawyer that people only resort to ad hominem attacks when they can't hold up the substantive end of their argument.

Julio, what I've love to see is in the future is more of an integration of treatment of real-time acoustic sound sources (not just loops) with synthesizers within the same box.  I guess Live does some of this, but I'd like to see some hardware synths take this on.


"I lost track of him after his 'Chariots of Fire' hit."

My thoughts too.

This sounds almost like a thread for bands that may have been cool for a while until they weren't.  A few from the prog era that would come to mind are Gentle Giant, Yes and even the venerable Soft Machine (their last, "Land of Cockayne," is pretty forgettable).


OK - I'm not a Vangelis keener - but this video of him playing his setup has some serious "wow" factor.
Wait a minute or two for him to finish his prep on whateverthehellthosemodulesare.

That's one bad-ass setup.  I remember the more prog side of Vangelis from the early to mid-70s (Earth, Heaven & Hell, Albedo 0.39, Spiral, La Fete Sauvage).  I was impressed with his ability not only to play multiple instruments but to write compositions without any standard notation.  Sure, he has a schmaltzy side, but I think his earlier efforts were more balanced and varied.  My favorites from that time were probably Heaven & Hell (especially the piece with piano and choir) and Albedo.  I lost track of him after his "Chariots of Fire" hit.  Interesting that he was one of the original choices for replacing Rick Wakeman at keyboards before they found Patrick Moraz.


Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 27, 2013, 05:22:38 PM »
[I guess since most people are artists here they have the  need to some kind of self censorship in order to portray their own reputation. So as I said within a certain circle of people in this forum there will never ever been any arguments cause they do not want to risk to to create tension between relations.

Here's a good example of what I'm talking about.  This is just gratuitous and, frankly, speculative junk.


Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 27, 2013, 04:47:17 PM »
I think people who have disagreed with you in this thread have said quite a bit more to you than "I have more experience," but you seem not to process what they're saying or just dismiss it out of hand.  Maybe you should re-read some of the responses, especially Paul's detailed ones.  There's no secret society here, but if I were you I wouldn't be too proud about being a contrarian for contrariness' sake.  And no, your tone throughout this thread has been offensive.  If you're seeking some help, you're going about it the wrong way.


Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 27, 2013, 04:16:10 PM »
Immersion said:

You seem to be getting lost in the details and are not attuned to what some of the more experienced musicians are trying to say to you. 

I think if some one said that to you you would consider such statements proactive.
I wish we could have a coequal discussion, where all people are equally worth, and not people riding on high horses saying things like "I have better experience then you"  it really kills the discussion, and is not really constructive and right.

I said that the years of experience is of no relevance, some people have it in them some have not, so to make this into some kind of competition who has released most albums and how have been working with certain audio in certai amount of years I find really provocative and arrogant.  People use it as their main argument that they have certain years of experience so for that reason everything they say is above others,  there is so many artists out there who have been working all life so years of experience say really zero to be honest.  Some one achieve the same results in 1 year then the other person achieve in 30 years in terms of sound quality  and production.

I think the people responding to your thread have for the most part been very restrained and I think most of the fire has been coming from your direction.  I certainly haven't been talking down to you and tried to give you constructive feedback on a piece you posted to the forum.  The only biting comments seem to be coming from people who seem frustrated by the generalizations in your responses.  Did you ever consider that maybe in your defensiveness you're overcompensating for insecurities about your own inexperience?  The best defense is not always an offense.

One other nontechnical word of advice--getting some musical training in performing or music theory, if you don't have some already, will benefit you in the long run.

Finally, while I know you're trying, some of your sentences do not flow well grammatically and at times it can difficult to understand what you're saying.


Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 27, 2013, 03:29:25 PM »
Immersion said:

"There is a lot of talk about 10 years of experience, and 15 years of experience it is really  not anything that is revelation to the discussion there is a lot of artists that have life long careers, as a musician and producer is a lot about your taste and sense of audio , some one have it some have not.  Of course I understand you did might not say it directely but indirectly, the whole general attitude seemed to be that you could get away with bad equipment with the right skills.. I told many times this correct but to a certain level, to beyond a certain thresold you really need more then good skills you also need good tools and equipments."

Seems like you haven't been reading with others have been saying.  As Mike and others have said already, no-one is advocating the use of "bad" equipment with the "right" skills.  You seem to be getting lost in the details and are not attuned to what some of the more experienced musicians are trying to say to you.  One of things I have learned through the years is that you will learn more if you approach your craft with more humility and appreciate that will always be much that you don't know and possibly will never know.  The alternative is to resonate within your own echo chamber, but I suspect that that is not the result you're seeking.

Good luck.


Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Thoughts on the zither?
« on: November 26, 2013, 05:34:35 PM »
A better title for this topic would have been "Whither the zither?"

Or how about, "dither on the zither?"


Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Thoughts on the zither?
« on: November 26, 2013, 05:33:32 PM »
I saw a couple of tremoloas available on ebay recently. They weren't as expensive as I expected but then again, there's probably not a huge demand for them. Hadn't heard of the other two but I looked them up and they seem like cool instruments. I've never played a bowed instrument before though.

They sound a bit like bowed psaltry, only a little fuller.  One thing to keep in mind is, at least with the older ones, they are very difficult to tune and to keep in tune.  Helps to have perfect or relative pitch, too.


Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Thoughts on the zither?
« on: November 26, 2013, 05:13:30 PM »
Yeah, the strings do sustain themselves well. It's like they have a little bit of a natural reverb. I like to go pretty light with the EQ as well. Stripping out all the midrange on a zither recording is not a good thing.

Do you have any other zithers besides the guzheng?

Yes, I have an ukelin, a pianolin and tremeloa.  Fun to play/improvise on them, but my takes using them don't always make it to the final cut.  I used an ukelin on the opening cut on :Animism" (Tailing Wind).


Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Thoughts on the zither?
« on: November 26, 2013, 03:51:33 PM »
I use them.  I would be careful with the use of reverb on them, as the strings on the zither should sustain pretty well by themselves.  I don't have any special advice on effects (other than to be sparing), but I prefer for them to be close-miked and/or that a contact mic used.  If miked too far away, they tend to sound tinny without much midrange.


Hi Immersion,

I meant to tell you that I gave your track with the lower volume mix a listen (burned it onto CDR and listened to it through my stereo system).  Some nice textures...I like your sounds at the high end, but the mix as a whole seems to lack a midrange (maybe you overcompensated the EQ by trying to avoid a muddy midrange??).  I would also dial back the reverb tail on the high end--it seems to smear a bit and there could be a little space there, so that the reverb setting could come through better.


Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Where is Thom Brennan?
« on: November 26, 2013, 10:28:27 AM »
looking forward to for the new album..but I can't understand how an ambient record can take so long...

Hmmmmm...pot kettle black?   ;)  (Sorry, couldn't resist.)


Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 22, 2013, 09:43:26 PM »
"Also, how much are you ready to pay for a more "effortless" experience when creating music, or do you prefer to work really hard
to make your cheap gear sound expensive, personally for me I am tired it, I want an inspiring setup that sounds amazing, not spend endless
time and energy to make something as I want when I can do that the on the fly with good equipment, that is the thing for me I want an effortless
way of expression and not have to deal with "crap"  just to save some money, cheap gear and most plugs does not inspire me I want that extra..."

Ah, but that's the rub.  For each new piece of complex piece of gear you add to the system, you steepen your potential learning curve and things can become harder, not more effortless.  It's much like the difference between going into a neighborhood grocery store that chooses its items wisely and going into the Costco warehouse.  I hope you're able to find your own bliss with your new aggregation of gear, but I would think that at some point, you would run the risk of getting diminishing returns out of the complexity of your setup.


Now Playing / Re: Currently listening, part 1
« on: November 22, 2013, 10:31:31 AM »
Facture is releasing a new Orla Wren album in early December that contains reworkings of tracks from these sessions.

I've preordered this one already:)  The "art" package approach they have to their releases is special.  Hard to tell if the music is enhancing the art, or the other way around (or both).  It's an approach I wish more labels would take (especially indies), but I'm sure it's costly and time consuming to do.  Another good example of this would be the Time Released Sound label.


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