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Messages - Ekstasis

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 47
1
Mike (and the moderators) have adopted a very liberal approach here to banning. There have been very few bans and those were undertaken were done so for very good reasons. It takes a lot to get banned here.

On a related note, When posts are disrespectful in tone or downright rude and / or peppered with swearing (which isn't very clever), it becomes easy not to show any interest in them.
I understand there can be problems with language regarding people for whom English isn't their mother tongue, but bleating about using subtle wordplay and the like to make 'subliminal attacks' is frankly rubbish. It's very rare when someone has a go at someone without being provoked.

This forum has been around for years before I joined (about 9 years ago), I think it has real value and I'd like to see it carrying on into the future. For god's sake, there aren't many places where we can talk about the things that we do, without boring the life out of our wives/partners/friends/family/pets etc !

What I mean is, people are getting away with personal attacks using mindgames, sarcasm, irony, but which can have the same provoked effect on the person it is directed at.  So far I have not seen any one getting banned for this reason. Only if you use direct language.

I still think it is hard for the moderators to do there job and being objective when they are friends with too many..If they receive complaints they will not do anything because they are friends etc etc. Ideally a moderator should not be friend with every one but also have a certain personality  who are allergic to people mean to each other and stamping on each other.

2
Now Playing / Re: Currently listening, part 1
« on: May 13, 2015, 04:10:24 PM »
Loren Nerell - Taksu

3
"People are banned too easily?"


I think you'd have a hard time supporting that. This forum has been around for over 15 years and we've only banned a few people, ever, and those bans occurred after numerous warnings, and after the members continued to ignore the warnings and do the same things they had been warned not to do.

Good to know the number is not higher at least.. I just wish every one could be friends. Personal attack or cyber bullying and subliminal humiliation is something we do not need here. I know any other music forum I am on they do not tolerate subliminal personal attack/humiliation either, as long if the person who it is directed at report the post because he felt uncomfortable they usually delete the post. I wish it was more like this here too... so we all know what the threshold are and that you cant get away with the subliminal stuff.. which is just as nasty..
If we know the threshold is very high and none tolerance I think it would be a nicer climate in general on the forum.  In this case people should be better to report when they feel offended. so the post can be deleted (does not need to result in a warning if its not too harsh)

4
I am still think Ipad are still little bit too much like toys yet... But if you connect for instance an exteranl interface like RME BABBYFACE PRO then maybe you can do serious stuff with it...

What I would consider to use an IPAD for is mostly as a control surface to send midi data to trigger stuff.. or control volume
For this it is good...

Any way I have grown up with windows and I doubt I will buy an apple product in the next 10 years, android alternatives is not as good for audio this is fact..and I also think IPADs are too expensive.. I also do not like people who think IPADs is all you need these days for web browsing and doing office stuff,  I am still way more productive in front of the computer, and I still want a big monitor.  I realize what touch surfaces are good for but I also realize what they are not good for. Personally I think tablets are overrated,   I use a Huawei Mate 7 phone a 6 inch phatblet because of the size of the screen I have less desire to invest in a tablet also. Sometimes I would like a tablet to watch documentaries when I am out of the apartment though..

5
some kind of polarity is healthy for the discussions but yeah personal attacks should not be tolerated.
But lively discussions is interesting so polarity is good..
But I think people are maybe banned to easy.. It is mainly to make less "work" for moderators.

On most other forums they will just delete the posts.. it is kind of normal
A lot of forum have a warning system, maybe you can get ten warnings..

Anyway I do not really give a fuck to be honest, it is not like I spend much time here any more.
And yes regarding personal attacks, there is also people that give personal attacks but in a more subliminal form but with the exact same effect as the more superficial personal attacks,  and that is allowed on the forum so I would suggest using this method instead if you do not want to be banned if you still  have desire to give personal attacks.  So yes you can still insult people if you do it in a more clever way, should this be allowed too ? I personally do not think so.
The moderators are friend with every one on the forum, what I mean with every one is the top posters and ambient artists , so if they receive a complain from any new members for instance the moderators will not be objective,  so it is also important which you are friends with on this forum.

As I said I do not care any more do what you want, personally I think it is interesting with some kind of polarity on the forum that people think different creates interesting discussion as long as it does not contain on personal attacks or subliminal humiliation. 



 

6
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Ambient music and Mastering
« on: May 13, 2015, 11:53:00 AM »

Using a set of monitors that complete each other is a good idea I agree.
I have heard "Avantone MixCubes" is a good choice for secondary monitor.
They are not ment to blow you away but if it sound goods on them they will translate good on most systems.

Also In general doing reserach on which monitors that does translate best is also a good
idea. Genelecs for instance they do not translate well to other sound system, while it sound good
on them it might sound dull and boring on other speakers.

using analysing tools is good to see problematic frequencies that you might not here.


Hey Extasis,

Yes the avantones seem a good choice for a ''second opinion'' regarding a mix..

I've read and discovered in person exactly the opposite regarding the Genelecs they translate superbly and sound good at the same time, especially the ones that use the ''SAM'' system that fix the room acoustics with a probe for calibration to the listeners position. Maybe your information is outdated? They are very, very serious about room acoustics and the way their systems integrate, a thing other companies don't care..And since I can't hire an expert in acoustic treatment to fix my rented house reflections, options are scarce don't you think?

http://www.genelec.com/news/latest-news/131-news-archive/year-2012/928-genelec-introduces-new-smart-active-monitor-sam-concept/

I know gearslutz bash Genelec and maybe it's where you got that info, but I've listened to some recent models and I was blown away...

For people with limitations regarding, little, or no room treatment, they look like the best option available, what is the purpose of buying a 4k monitors if your room is a shit and all you have is third party calibration options not tailored to your specific speakers?

I was going to chime in as well, but you beat me to it. Genelec are great speakers. They do have more of a modern studio monitor sound than some others, but actually they kind of invented/defined that sound. There is a reason why Genelec are some of the most ubiquitous speakers around. In fact most true profession high end rooms I have been in around the US use Genelecs.

Also I concur that Avantones are great 2nd or 3rd option mix checkers.

I have heard Genelecs and they sound very flat and bulky they sound anything but 3D.
My Trident HG3 is of course better but they have the wideness, the height and the depth.
I would define the charterer of the Genelecs  I have tried as "plastic".
I have not tried any of their more expensive speakers, but Genelec are most associated with there
mid range speakers.

There is a few major reason why Genelecs are popular.

1. Good Price to sound ratio. 
2. People buy them because of there popularity, they see they are in every project studio out there and for that reason I do not need
to do that reserach I just buy what every one else have and trust their collective "opinion".
3.  Genelecs did get popular a lot because of there included room calibration tools that was kind of unique at the time.
4. Also studios want to find the ultimate reference point,  and since every one use Genelec it is easier to find the reference point if using the speakers.  Just as every one did use the AKG 240  headphones series before.. studios tend to copy a lot of what other studios use...

Before I was building my studio and looking around for monitors  I had almost before done any research at all myself decided I should by genelec, i thought there must be a reason why they are so popular and why they are in every project and a lot of other studios.
After doing some research I did quickly find out there is a lot of better choices out there the Genelec.
The fact that they are so well known give them extra promotion and advertising also, I strongly think a lot of people choose genelec just because of pure lazyness really. So yeah I did never end up with the Genelecs luckily , I am very happy for that.
However I would not mind some Genelec monitors in future as a third monitor.


7
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Ambient music and Mastering
« on: May 13, 2015, 05:59:32 AM »
using analysing tools is good to see problematic frequencies that you might not here.

Using a set of monitors that complete each other is a good idea I agree.
I have heard "Avantone MixCubes" is a good choice for secondary monitor.
They are not ment to blow you away but if it sound goods on them they will translate good on most systems.

Also In general doing reserach on which monitors that does translate best is also a good
idea. Genelecs for instance they do not translate well to other sound system, while it sound good
on them it might sound dull and boring on other speakers.

And yeah if the converters and headphone amp is not good enough it is all for nothing.
Especially headphone amp can colour the sound a lot be careful of that.
Solid state headphone amps are to prefer for reference listening.

Use more then 1 headphone for sure.. all headphone sound very different from each other, most have good and bad sides..
often they complete each other.  Buying headphones (after you have bought a good headphone amp) is still the chepeast way to get
multiple reference points in the studio, ideally you want as many reference points as possible.

It is certainly easier to mix in headphones 2015, there is a few products out there like SPL phonitor and also Beyedynamic have a tool to emulate speaker sound thru headphones.. anyway I think despite there is many software solutions for this  the SPL one is the best.. yet again it will give you maybe one more reference point

I would not advice anyone to mix totally in headphones.. you might get a few surprises when listening to the same music in speakers..
But for ambient music, you get a better focus on detail and more immersive experience which might benefit you..
However before doing the final mix down atleast listen to in spekears..you might find problems especially with the bass..
Too much static bass in ambient drone music can be very painful to listen to, you might not even hear it in the headphones.

If you have not enough good speakers with not enough detail, then when doing ambient it might be a good idea to focus more on the headphones.
Headphones are still the cheapest way to get good audio quality, with the right pair headphone amp ofc.


8
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Ambient music and Mastering
« on: May 12, 2015, 04:59:03 PM »
Feel free to give us examples where a remastred version have ended up not louder ? :)

Anything done for the Audio Fidelity or MFSL labels, all ECM recordings are mastered, as are those by Telarc and I could go on. What you seam to be rallying against is the "loudness wars" which are quite common in new rock releases and many re-masters. However that is almost 100% label and artist driven. In essence a mastering engineer only has the power that you give them.

Also turning up and making sure tracks hang together from one to the next is not the same as squashing, limiting and crushing it to death.

One other aspect is to "glue the mix together" but how do they do that, if not with compression ?

Traditionally NOT done in mastering. That is, the whole "glue a mix together" thing is done by the mix engineer with buss compression and it is not usually a mastering engineers job or concern.

Sending ambient music to the best mastering studio in the world would be a total joke..they do not even know
what to do with that kind of music all they would hear is production errors..

Sorry but here you are just speaking in hyperbole and ignorance.

Not to be a jerk, but I have met, talked to and personally know some of the best mastering engineers in the world and this is not the case. They all take extreme care with the music they are given. They work with the artist to achieve said artist's sonic goals and would NEVER be content to craft a product that the artist was not 100% happy with.

Ambient music have nothing to do with traditional music production it is totally isolated from that.

I think that you are too easily putting "ambient music" in a fragile box and frankly doing it a disservice.

Its music! It may sound good in your room, on your equipment, but if it does not translate on some universal level to everyone else's music systems then you have failed. Period!

In other words, your music should sound good on ipod ear buds, Grado Headphones, KRK-Rokits, Audiophile home theater systems, 5-1 budget systems, laptop speakers and in your car. Its called translation and if you can't figure out how to do that, then that is what a mastering engineers job is.

Also if your music is so fragile that slight eq changes will ruin it, then that is a problem! Frankly I have never heard an ambient album from anyone that I respect in this genre where subtle eq changes ruin the sonic intent of the music.

How do I say and know this? Well because in any play back environment there will be subtle eq changes.

Mastering houses have played out there role more and more..people have better and better equipment in their home studios..
And sounds more and more like the fish product...  However.. there is many cases mixes can benifit from just go thru magic hardware
to give that extra magic you cannot get with the software... but that is more like summing..

A two sided example/argument you bring up here.

Some people are getting better equipment...but more realistically prosumer equipment is actually getting better. I do hold to the standard, that there is no excuse anymore for bad audio quality, at least in so much as you cannot blame the gear.

So when recordings don't sound good, who is to blame? The engineers and musicians who lack the knowledge of how to make something sound good or lack basic mixing skills, but that is ok because like anything worth doing, there is a learning curve and it will take time to get the hang of.

Also there are professional mixing and mastering engineers who can help. Sure, you can fiddle about and learn to fix everything on your car if you want to, and you can buy the tools you need to do so, it can even be your hobby and passion. But there is also the slight chance you might need some help from a professional with better tools and skills and taking your car to them can save you time, headaches and even by spending money for their expertise can save you more money in the long run.

Also there is no "magic box" that you can just run a signal through and audio sounds better, or where a bad mix is suddenly awesome.

There is great gear out there that can and will make mixing easier, but you still have to learn to use it and even there most professionals will tell you its a process best done, one piece at a time...

Anyway..I do not agree that mastering process is a must.. this I think was more in the past..
external ears can be good and also bad.. depending on how much of external input you are willing to put in.
It is easy to do drastic changes in the mastering process that might be far from the artist vision.

Here we will just need to disagree.

What music have you sent out to have mastered? Did you have a bad experience? Where you unable to work with the mastering engineer to fix the problem?

Here is the thing, some people/artists can and do master their own work at home. But usually they have the right tools, a great treated room and the correct knowledge and experience to do so. This is great when it happens, but I assure you it is the exception and not the norm. And the people who can do it have spent years mastering the art of mastering their own music and they have worked out sonic and translation issues.

Once again..too many good albums have been destroyed by these mastering studios.
Also a lot of them have this "fast food" mentality,  they master a album so fast that they can't even listen it thru
they find a preset and just use it on the full album.. which results in ugly artefacts in some parts..

Ummmm...what?

I would state that you get what you pay for. If someone uses a cheap on-line mastering service or a guy down the street with a laptop and "mastering" software, then what did you expect?

Again out of the numerous mastering engineers I know, NONE of them use set it and forget it processes and all of them listen through a song multiple times to get it right.

I also will say on the flip side that if it takes more than a day/session to master an album, then that person is not much of a mastering engineer. In other words, if you the artist/creator are struggling to get your finished mix to sound right and translate evenly across the board, especially after days and days of eq tweaks and such then perhaps this is when, where and why a mastering engineer is important.

I have really no energy for a long answer. I still think in the context of ambient music you are way to locked in the "professional music business".
I still think in year 2015 sending ambient music to mastering is a joke,  I think as an ambient artist and audio painter you should not let any one else mess with the colours,  you can do that but than it is a collaboration, listen to steve roach remasters for B Parnham, youngblood  they sound just like steve roach.

I still think that remastering studios in most cases are a fast food industry made to trick people with simple tricks. Of course there is good studios too, but in general I do not have much respect for them.

And remastering for ambient is just stupid, but if you do not have enough basic recording knowledge or equipment to make judgement maybe you need "help" by external people, but for ambient artists I think it is important to keep the integrity.

Especially with ambient remasters in many cases they are worse  listen to Amir Baghiri dreamsources original and remastered, a perfect example of excellent music ruined by software remastering.  There is also many examples of releases that sound al ot better then the original, but  you can make drastic differences and in the context of ambient music every detail matters, it is way too easy to transform the total picture of the music with even subtle changes, ambient music is extremely sensitive.

Regarding between translation between systems, I think in all honesty this is not a problem with ambient music the only thing really to be careful about is the bass, careful about not having too much bass, since that indeed might translate very bad.

No, ambient music is not pop music so no, no need of sending to remaster spend the money on a better effect unit instead or speakers.
Also I think people who like ambient music in general are more interested in Hifi and equipment and all that.

Would love to see the reaction if sending this to a remastering facility :)

For me this total" garbage" sounding ambient sounds totally perfect for me but I can understand
why they think it sound garbage.  I can also imagine how it would sound after remastering
A lot of the unique sound would be gone it would just sound. Ambient music does not follow the same rules
as pop music, ambient music is not as superficial, for me it is all about what happens when I close my eyes.
From the creator himself he said to me this music is made for headphones.






 
I am not going to say that ambient music is made for headphones, but I can tell I like to listen to ambient in both ways,but I can tell you
my deepest ambient music experience has been with headphones, the music takes over my mind a lot better which is harder with speakers.
And you get closer to the sound, details clearer.  Listening to speakers is a different experience.
I wish I could have my sweetspot position with my speakers so I can listen to speakers in bed too..unfortunately I can do that.
If I am not listening in the sweetspot it will not sound right unfortunately.. and it will be less imressive.

A lot of ambient artists mix and record only with headphones I think really in many ways you can get away with it..
as long as you make sure to cut the bass

No I refuse that there is any specific rules with ambient music there is no "certain" ways to do the process, it is all about closing your eyes
and the the sounds transform you, if it sounds good to you in that moment it is all you need, no need to send it to any fast food chains to make it sound more radio friendly ?  With ambient music you can with very simply steps make a poor recording sound very professional.. Remastring for ambient audio painters I think is just wrong.. and in a way a disrepect to the artits, if the artists feels he want to change the colours it must be called a collaboration.
I would never in my life let any label send my stuff to any remastring for my ambient, since I think the recording should be the ultimate reflection of a certain moment in time,  if you really can't get this feeling in real time when you are recording or listening then you really need some equipment or sound shaping tools to give you that sensation,  if you do not feel the sensation  then it just feels fake to send it to any professional paid mastering god that will make it sound perfect and professional, this is just fake and mass produced ambient that atleast I have no interest  in.

Especially the Dark Ambient genre I think suffer from this mass-produced crap, I think also in this genre it is more usual to send it to remastering since dark ambient are often more sold on bigger labels,  dark ambient in general is a bigger "market", it sounds too mass produced that it is hard to decide if its dark ambient or just scary game music,  a lot of Lustmords works I think follow under "game music" category for instance..



9
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Ambient music and Mastering
« on: May 08, 2015, 02:22:38 PM »
Feel free to give us examples where a remastred version have ended up not louder ? :)

One other aspect is to "glue the mix together" but how do they do that, if not with compression ?

Sending ambient music to the best mastering studio in the world would be a total joke..they do not even know
what to do with that kind of music all they would hear is production errors..

Ambient music have nothing to do with traditional music production it is totally isolated from that.

Mastering houses have played out there role more and more..people have better and better equipment in their home studios..
And sounds more and more like the fish product...  However.. there is many cases mixes can benifit from just go thru magic hardware
to give that extra magic you cannot get with the software... but that is more like summing..

Anyway..I do not agree that mastering process is a must.. this I think was more in the past..
external ears can be good and also bad.. depending on how much of external input you are willing to put in.
It is easy to do drastic changes in the mastering process that might be far from the artist vision.

Once again..too many good albums have been destroyed by these mastering studios.
Also a lot of them have this "fast food" mentality,  they master a album so fast that they can't even listen it thru
they find a preset and just use it on the full album.. which results in ugly artefacts in some parts..


10
I myself think RedShift and Free system projekt have the best sequencers in this style of music And of course Klaus schulze (before he started to use software based seqencers)

11
Soundcloud link is embeded in the link below.

Sounds really good!

http://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=113246

12
Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Robert Rich - Filaments
« on: May 06, 2015, 04:31:44 PM »
This albums reminds me more of the "live archive series".. it is very medocire in all aspects.. the sound are petty boring.. and sonics are not on par with his older albums, some people compared to Electric ladder,I still that album is soo much more better.

What Filaments is missing is any type of atmosphere, this músic fails for me to paint any mental pictures besides in certain moments, but then the other problem is the short length of the songs, which make the album too fragmented.

For me Entangled is the only memorable song from this album, the rest feels just like a medocre soup something you would hear on any improvised live concert from robert rich.

Anyway, I am still grateful Robert Rich is producing albums, I which He would have a bigger flow of releases.
I did like his nest release. His sominum release while appreciated it was a big disappointment.
Seem like ambient indeed was better before then it is these days.

13
Steve roach can do a lot more better sequencers then this, this album took how many years to create ?
It was boring  Just compare any of the songs to this song ? the difference between this song and the songs on the albums is this have this instant "timeless" quality to it..the difference is so big..  Steve roach has still some of the best sequencer stuff.. and when I listen to his discography i actually which he did do more sequncer based stuff.. he have kind of gotten away from that stuff lately.



I do not know, I am glad steve roach is producing music but I do not feel he have the same joy any more,
He looks more old and depressing now days, how is his health now really ? he does not look too well to be honest.
Maybe he should focus more on getting better health which gives him more health and energy, his music sound more vibrant before more cold now days.
In other worlds I think his health reflects in the music.

And I still think his productions in his old studio sound a lot better then they do today.
I have never been to his studio but I can hear big changes have been made..

Despite what I always looking forward to check out steve roach new albums it is always exciting to listen,  and his library of music can never get too big, cause I get tire of listening to the same albums over and over so it is nice to get new additions constantly..

14
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Ambient music and Mastering
« on: May 06, 2015, 03:55:44 PM »
My Opinion 6 years later after I started this thread, for ambient music, there is no need to send any ambient music to any "Traditional mastering studio" or such for me this is bullshit.. ambient music is a finished product from what you do in your home.  Mastering studio main purpose in today world is to make the volume levels more even and most of all higher..  Ambient music does not benefit from it.. While it might do in a quick A/B test it can fool your ears easily, it might sound bigger and more volume and energy but less airy and dynamic.  If I would send any of my ambient music to a traditional mastering studio then only thing I would expect is some compression added.  In other worlds Mastering for ambient is totally bullshit and really overrated.

I can only look to all ambient I like, all of it are mostly self made at home  and often in far from "professionals studios"

And regarding mastering for other music in other genres, it can be a good idea, but as long as it is hardware mastering.
But I also think mastering have destroyed a lot of good mixes and albums out there.. in general what people want is that they play the music they create as loud as possible,  and to make it sound loud with just compression will not give the same feeling as playing it loud with less compression and more dynamic..
I think mastering has become more and more overrated, people produce more and more good mixes them selves..  and are then maybe sent to some cheap software mastering studio which destroys it all..

EDIT: also I forgot to add..due the nature of ambient music I think mastering by an external person would make too much difference in general the the colours of the music expression in general..  so yeah..good ambient music should be done in your home studio.. and all ambient artists I like do this..
They produce what they want to meet your ears.. nothing more..

15
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Camel Audio stopped business
« on: January 10, 2015, 02:53:22 PM »
rumours suggest they have been being sold to another "big company" it would make sense..because of the lack of information on the website.

16
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Camel Audio stopped business
« on: January 10, 2015, 02:23:05 PM »
Very sad and very surprising news! Alchemy is pretty much my primary synth for Ambient music!
Very bad news.. I had hi hopes they would release something big any time soon.. like a new version of Alchemy...
There is really no other synth to fill their spot to be honest..

I wonder what was the reason for them to lay down camel audio ?
No info on the website either... did they not pay taxes or what ?

17
So, if it's not 'artistic', what else is it - do you think he's made a technical error of judgement ?

Downloaded your video, but I didn't get it, playing around with an Eq doesn't really show what you're trying to get at.

On the subject of noiser and Eqs, I use a high Q parametric Eq to 'soften' noise textures (or just noise), I find the frequencies vary with the sound, but yes 4k - 8K is usually the range (using up to 3 narrow Q cuts). A 'steam' like sound is much more pleasing to these ears than unfiltered noise.

For me it is quite obvious it is an artifact. This is noise produced as an artifact from something within the chain. Or how do you explain the exact same noise is produced thru the whole album which is 15 hours ?

 I am not sure what he used to mix this record.
ButWhen I lower the 4khz  and 6Khz it sounds a lot better and cleaner when all that constant noise is gone.

My only purpose with this video was to show and isolate the frequencies I had problems with, even at 0 db level the noise is very high in the mix... when listening to this noise for hours It is tiring and there is not one minute that goes by listening to this album without me getting bothered by the noise.
I agree that this "steam like" noise can be desireable, but for me they must have some kind of warmth and softness to it, to sound good, this noise sounds just cold and like a artefact to me.

18
I made a video/audio recording to demonstrate perfectely what I am talking about, my vote it is not artistic.  Even at 0 db level the noise floor is catastrophic  .

Download video here: http://www.fildirekt.se/dl/1415698622.avi

19
Is this from the nest or perpetual?
I have no complaints about the nest from what I remember.  Even though it has a more lofi character.  It sounds like it is a release from 1995 and not 2012.

However with perpetual this noise sounds deign definitely not artistic.  It is quite obvious it is an artifact.
I know Robert rich use toraverb,  if it is used  on perpetual it could be it I get the same noise with it which was hard to get rid of until I found the source. 
I can give examples this week of the noise in the audio.
I hope he will do a re-release

20
Art and Literature, Movies and TV / Re: Interstellar
« on: November 09, 2014, 01:52:50 PM »
I have only seen the trailer..but I am pretty sure it is very good..

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