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Messages - Ekstasis

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341
Immersion said "moog is the only synth that sounds good without sound processing"

That's crazy. ::)

I don't think there is a way a synth should sound, and there are no sounds that are better than others. It is a matter of choosing sound sources that appeal to you and that you feel like working with. You might want to just bang old tin cans with a stick and mic the result, you might prefer using analog synths, you might really like romplers with a very rich (or very thin and grainy) sample set, or you might prefer a particular type of digital synth, like additive. Whatever. What sounds "good" is not a thing set in stone by Moog, it is whatever one prefers to hear and to work with, to sculpt. It is what excites you. What is beautiful to you.

Well I agree.. it is a personal preference I never said otherwise...but whenever a new synth is realsed the thing that interest me does they take synthsis to any new sonic level ?
or has all this been done 1000 times before ?  A lot of synth lack a personal character,  the tragic development is that in many newer synth it is its internal effects that form the synth character and without it sounds like any other synth.  I like synths with an unique distinct sound. 

But hard to find the perfect synth..
as I said I use alchemy  I have a hate and love relationship with it...
I just do not know any good alternative with it that makes it so easy and flexible for ambient music to morph real time stuff,... and most importantly you can add your own sounds...
as I have said before I wish Omnisphere had the alchemy GUI and the ability load your own samples it would be wonderful, or Lush 101


 

342
This totally reminds me of gearslutz now. A product is not out yet, has no published specs and no one has heard it...but it must suck! Ha ha really?!?

Do not believe the hype until you see it , I am more interested in synths that push the quality of sound instead of focusing on all other crap.  If you want to believe the hype of all "new" then be my guest. but especially with synths I know each year more crap of the same is released.

I find this quest for mediocrity fascinating by the way, you must really like to swim in these waters... as I Told earlier if you did listen, you can make even a bad synth sound good, with right processing, but it is nothing to be fascinated about a synth with mediocre sound, should we applaud them and be hyped over that ? All I am saying I think the synth market is doing a really bad job, when synths 25-30 years ago sounds better then today for instance. Synths today have become more advanced flexible and easier to control and program but the pure sound of OSCs and Filters etc have gone backwards I am just huge disspointed with the development in general, it is all about fooling people to buy their products now days, with different advertisement tricks to manipulate us to believe how revolutionary it is. A lot of people today live in the illusion that the newest synth is the best, while the only reason it might sound better is because of more high quality internal effects.

So to summarize there have no real development with synths the last 25-30 years when it comes to the sound of ocs and filters etc, the development is more about making it possible to control synths in a digital way..and that is very important I think..I would personally not want a synth that is not digitally controlled, I want a hybrid synth.  For that reason I think I would not go bad to 25-30 years,  people buy these old synths because of the pure sound, also that old synths tend to often be more perform friendly often more knobs, todays synths has this quest to have as few knobs as possible and all modulation "magic" should be done with this magic mod wheel which you can "put up and down"

s
 
   



Synths are such a personal thing there is NO way to really label one good or bad. The minute I say oh that synth sucks or I hate soft synths or ipad synths or what ever, I usually have to eat my words because I will end up at a music festival or hear an album done with one of the offenders and it will blow me away.

once again almost all synth can be made to sound good, to a certain level, most synthscan be made to make music... that is not my point... I am just against this quest of medicore sound and let people fooled by all this superficial stuff,

Synths are instruments and their success or failure is in the musician. Now one may not resonate with you, but thats ok. Does not mean it sucks.

well it is true to a certain limit, but at the same time you exaggerate.  The limit is based on what sound you are after, not every synth can capture the soul of another synth, especailly not a digtal synth that tries to sound analogue . As I said to a certain limit your statement is true.  I have only comes close to the sound xpander with soft synths, I come close enough but it still sound different, without doubt.  So the sound of these OSCs and Filters does matter... just a musicians thinking power will not change these laws.  Of course in digital land it is easier... but virtual analogue is more tricky.


Can you tell a guitarist that a strat is better than a tele is better than a les paul??? No. Is Fender better than Gibson or PSR or Rickenbacker??? No its all preference based on sound, feel, brand loyalty and more.

You are right, totally right here, about the guitars. Same goes with synths, but I would maybe not agree with the loyalty cause synth manufactures have done more radical changes during the years, a strat is still the same since the 60s but roland is not etc...same goes with all other synth manufactures.

Every time I have bought a synth based on what I hear others doing with it, I am usually disappointed...that is unless and/or until I take the time to dig into it and make it my own.

same...here.. well most synths are useful to make music, I am just against this hyping and this total "facination" of medicore sound, I use alchemy mostly for ambient, does it sound good ? no it sound total shit, but with my processing I have no problem to make it shine and sound good.. but should I hype this product and be very fascinating of it ? no.. takes a lot of effort to make it sound the way it does..

I just think we should have higher demands of synth manufactures.. especially on the sound.. it is just that they do not care about OSCs and Filters anymore cause they think all can be fixed with the internal effects and processing of the synth... this is just my opinon. of course I exaggerate and generalize too much there is always exceptions but I look at the market as a whole and most important what all the big synth manufactures has been doing the last years. 


As to synth manufactures, a huge factor for them comes down to one thing most of the time and thats "who will buy this, and how many will I sell?" Its that simple.

So its awesome in these rare times when someone says, "hey I'll try something new!" maybe it will succeed, maybe it will never get off the prototype stage or maybe the technology gets absorbed into a future model, but its still cool.

I can't wait to see what this one turns into as the guy has a great track record.

yes it is good with new ideas, unfortunately the sound quality comes always last in the develop process of synth.. ideas comes first... cause  new ideas sells more, cause people get fooled by the new cool things and that it is the "latest thing"...

 think in a lot of ways...they are just trying to fool people to buy their products.. in many cases it is like that.. it is still a quite small nish market with the people who demand really high quality oscs and filter sounds etc..so if Roland would make an really good sounding but "boring" basic synth it would probably not sell in enough numbers and would probably be more expensive to produce because of the analogue sound chain.  Cash Is king.

343
Immersion said "moog is the only synth that sounds good without sound processing"

That's crazy. ::)

I don't think there is a way a synth should sound, and there are no sounds that are better than others. It is a matter of choosing sound sources that appeal to you and that you feel like working with. You might want to just bang old tin cans with a stick and mic the result, you might prefer using analog synths, you might really like romplers with a very rich (or very thin and grainy) sample set, or you might prefer a particular type of digital synth, like additive. Whatever. What sounds "good" is not a thing set in stone by Moog, it is whatever one prefers to hear and to work with, to sculpt. It is what excites you. What is beautiful to you.

of course there is no golden rule as always.  Each to their own. but I know many share my opinion as in many cases I have a ability to exaggerate things little bit too much some times.
Well it is my highly personal opinion anyway, I know many people are with me, that most synths are useless without proper processing to make them shine...  For me the Oberheim Xpander was totally useless without processing.  But it is when you put all these nice beautiful analog sound under the magnifying glass and process it it sounds amazing.

The same goes with internal effects on synths, I do not find them useful since I have better external effects... Anyway my point is you can make almost any synth good with proper processing.

Moog does not need any processing, it sounds fat and good without anything it is quite alone in that.  a lot of synths depend on internal effects.

344
Well, if possible try to demo in store before..you might not like it..

Yes I bought the LG 21:9 monitor because I did use two monitors before..but then one them died..

I will give you my conclusion, atleast with the LG split screen software there is still an advantage with using two monitors.  When I had two monitors, I did tend to all of the time to watch movies or video clips and streaming on the right screen in full screen mode, this was not possible with the LG screen even with the split screen software, cause you can't put a program in fullscreen it will cover the whole screen..

I was dissapointed, I thought on youtube I got the impression that with the split screen software two seprate screens would show up in windows... that would be the ultimate..

Yeah so I guess it does depend how you use it... sure it was nice when I was using it in DAW but for the other stuff I did really prefer 16:9.

But for me personally, the 21:9 was too wide for my desk it did actually cover my racks I have on the desk on the sites...anyway I sold mine after two weeks.. it did also made me clear to me next time I buy a monitor it must be higher resolution then what I have now.

345
'Immersion'
It's not a question of overt positivity here on this forum - there are other places which are much more like that, it's more sometimes there's no point in being negative just for the sake of it, just keep it to yourself. I have to 'bite my tongue' at times, as I am a far from positive person myself.

Of course, everyone is entitled to post whatever they want, irregardless. But on the subject of technical stuff, I'm of the mind that listening to other people's experiences can be a useful thing. It's great that you're very enthused about these things though.

yes well I am afraid I am like that as person, I have a more critic eye especially on new hyped products or synths with different advertisements tricks to prove that it is the most revolutionary thing in the world it has this new Superior audio engine or this super new synthesis with some really cool scientific name   bla bla bla

All I am saying is that most synth makers have wrong focus today, focus on the basic elements of the synth good osc, good filters, not finding cheap shortcuts for everything.

The focus is really about anything but what comes in your ear the pure sound..
They put all this energy to come up with new ideas instead of focusing on the most important part... it is because of they think they cannot sell a synth that only sounds good, it most have good new "revolutionary" ideas that some one else have not tried... such as using ipads or put a ssd hardrive in a hardware synth with software and digital samples on ssd... and other nonsense...

Well I think they are wrong...people are still crazy in old analogue synth.. yet all new synths are mostly virtual analogue because of cost reasons..in some cases they might have analogue filter with this naive thinking that digital OSCs sounds as good as analogue, it is such a dramtic difference between digital and analogue OSCs...   Prophet 12 is such a good example... Everything is amazing about that synth but  no one is impressed with the sound, it sounds like software synth nothing special.. Dave call his best synth is carrier, is it function wise ? if he means sound wise I would be very worried about his hearing... prophet 5 is in an totally different league..

346
but the fact that I have been wake for our 25 hours now makes me feel kind of aggressive easily irritated  and even more pessimistic,  otherwise I would describe my person as manic depressive person I have no diagnosis,  this is my only my personal introspective opinion, if I would go and get a diagnosis I would probably get something like that,  but on the other hand who does not have a diagnosis today ? All people should have labels on their forehead nowdays..

My emotional state is kind of an roller coaster,  I would not call mood swings,  I have periods  but it can go fast too,  from an artistic standpoint I see this as a gift as music is about expression emotion I can express both darker emotions and more lighter, this roller coaster does help that,  my music taste also reflect this, I can go to listen to new age to death metal, to ambient to funeral doom metal to more uplifting music. I like to keep some kind of balance.

2005 I did start listening to steve roach music, it was basically to me, more like therapy a medicine, it did give me a sense of well being, and  a certain sense of "hope" (for the future).
It was away to get away from all these dark emotions and dark destructive music I was listening to all the time, steve roach music really helped to balance my brain, instead taking any pills, I would never eat  pills like that...I prefer real feelings.. But steve roach music was really like psychoactive drugs... meditation made me open up my sense and dream away and visualize things when listening to it... like an inner film in my head...Meditation was an important discovery for me..

Personally I know really what is missing in my life, that would change everything but I keep that too myself.. as I feel it is personal.

347
Quote from: Immersion
This is the reality.

Amen!

If 99% is not mediocre then it must mean you are happy with 99% of all the synths out there ?
It is not that I am saying you can make music on these but why use those 99% when there is better...so to have a certain high standard to sort out what you don't really need or you benifit on does not hurt.  Both in hardware land and software land there is this 99% mass.. you can be with out for sure. And just consider how many synths are out there..especially digital.

348
Julio,
Thanks for posting this and your other postings on technical stuff, don't feel the need to take a hiatus. Personally I'm far more interested in the thoughts of someone who has released (some great !) ambient music, than someone who merely has a set of intransigent opinions and no examples of their music output.

I'm also tiring of thread hi-jacking too and posts about what my favourite food processor is...

Opinions are no substitute for experience.

I have a good idea. What about only members who have released an album can sign up and write on this forum ?

I did not know that this was a pure  only positive new age "mood" forum all dress in white clothes.
So people with a more darker or negative or realistic view on things are not welcome ?

We all should be happy and just express positive things in traditional new age fashion ?
A place to find positive energy ? I didn't know it was, I prefer to be a realist.

I guess it is not a forum for dark ambient people who are too negative and have too much of dark mood cause those people are just sucking out energy out of all the new age people who are here to support their positive energies.

Regarding hyped synths I have seen many of them, and just as 99% it will most likely fall into the category with cool features and new ideas but with a mediocre sound.  This is the reality.
Just because it is new and unreleased does not mean it will be some kind of revolution, just because it is not released it gets hyped, always the same when a new synth comes, that it will be synth that revolutionize the world.  I am sorry for sucking too much energy...I should try to be more positive...



349


And you have spent 4-5k on and Eventide external FX box to run soft synths through......Ok,  time to take my blood pressure medication. Your notion of planning for the future has my nervous. My bad you actually have no vision for the future.  ;)

You mean I should have bought an expensive hardware synth instead ?
Even with such synth I would need the eventide still, moog is the only synth that sounds good without sound processing, all sounds need sound processing more or less. The eventide will make my life better for sure, even though it did empty my bank account it was worth it.   Life is about realizing dreams, and to own this unit was one of them.

350
Well, if you dont believe in the the future of software.....ok.  Oberhiem 4 voice...not new and not so forward looking though truly beautiful.....just an amazing awe inspiriting re creation with much improved midi etc.. Amazing to have it available today.....one foot in the past, one foot in the future.

By the way this is not a conversation.......

And you would spent 4-5k on and Eventide external FX box to run soft synths through......Ok,  time to take my blood pressure medication. Your notion of planning for the future has my nervous.

I believe in software, but since intel has been on vacation since amd did stop competing not much has happening, software synths are still full of compromises in order to save cpu cycles.
If software starts use multiple cpu cores like the Lush 101 do then there might be hope.

Oberhiem not forward looking well it is, since it combine digital and analogue technology in a very good way.  The new pro versions are digitally controlled you can save presets etc you get the best of digital and analogue worlds.. which make this synth more useful and less of nightmare to program.  For me it is the sonic quality that matters not all this advertisement bs showing all thew new "revolutionary" functions etc.  I have nothing against new functions and new ideas as long as they put the sonic quality as the most primary factor.  Most companies focus on getting a trendy and modern interface etc which looks good to the eye.. but sounds average...luckily there is a few soft synths that stand out from the big soup...

351
I have Matrix 12 in my studio.....its days are numbered.  What then?  Perhaps Stephan Schmitts new synth will be just what is need.  Can something replace...perhaps.  Will synthesis progress in some shape or form in hardware after electrically feed oscillators. Yes!

Again I welcome a debate....with a positive look into the future.....my thread, my rules.  ;)


yeah but when reading the website I get the vibes this is an company that will produce an other new synth with new cool features but forget about the sonic quality. Well we will see :)
Let's not believe the hype... so far we know nothing about it, besides it will be the most revolutionary synth in the world.

Personally if I was really rich I would be very interested to have Tom Oberheim's new synth tho voice or 4 voice synths.

http://www.tomoberheim.com/

Plenty of videos on youtube... I think it would be great for creating berlin school and that kind of music... But so many things to buy...my money can't buy anything I want...so I have to live with soft synths until the day I start to prioritize hardware synths more..but as it is now I feel software can make things done..


352
cool, thanks, I did check his website yesterday and was thinking about where is all roach releases, has been a quite dry year from him...only live releases mostly...looking forward to both...

353
The new Prophet 12 seemed amazing but it sounded like a average soft synth...
Or the Solaris synth. So much focus on everything else besides the pure sound. 

Immersion.....In one sense Im happy you are so vocal....and I do respect your opinion but you are mistaken.....its ok, you dont have the perspective which is something middle age men like myself  have earned through experience. You have youth that should have hope and a less jaded viewpoint..... ;)

You do know your pursuit for what is pure will only lead to silence...I hope thats what you are looking for.

No offense ment....just tired of having imho potentially good threads trashed.

Love & Peace

 

I did not give up hope, I said lets wait and see...
Lets see what the synth has to offer, just new functions or actually great sonic sound.
Most manufactures prefer to just make cool functions and features it works better in advertisement too... makes it look more new and "revolutionary" well all that is good, but do not forget the sound too.

Obviously it is an easier task to make a synth with new cool function then a synth that offer amazing sonic quality.  Let's see if it will be another soft synth in hardware format...
Atleast we know it will not have a big ipad-screen like many other so called "Revolutionary" synths today (sigh).


354
how much does a good screen for a projector cost ?

355
I did watch the youtube videos on that site...I must say it got me interested...
obviously it has both good contrast and black level too.

Is panasonic on the fore front when it comes to projectors... it would save time for me if I only need to focus on Panasonic projectors..


At the time I bought my projector, Panasonic was considered #1, but Epson has recently produced more and more of the higher-rated projectors. When it comes time for me to look for another projector, I would definitely consider Panasonic again, as well as Epson.

Epson is mostly known for their printers and scanners...
Feels I trust Panasonic more...

But I will never forgive them to abandon the plasma market in favor for LCD...
it is tragic... that the tvs with best tv quality does not sell in bigger numbers.. their latest tv series z60 had it all..amazing design..amazing picture... I guess the price was little bit expensive but the 2012 models had same price... when they where released..

356
well let me guess, another super flexible product with terrible sound quality...
usually that is the way... it is not often both worlds meet together.

I cant fathom how you have an opinion about this metal frame and keyboard when it hardly makes a sound and one that you have not heard, unless you mean that NI soft synths have a terrible sound quality and this man has something to do with the creation of that company so......???  Did you actually read the quote or go to website.  It is the "idea" of something that is one of the most powerful forces on this planet. Its usually simple in essence and can often be extraordinary in completion.

I look it into a more historic context.. how much synths does really sound good ? and is anything special ?
Most digital synths sounds the same average sound...  If it is analogue digital hybrid I would very happy...
Yes please to Analogue OSCs and Filters.  If not it will probably sound just like any other synth out there.
But we will see..the odds are still low...I have seen so many new synths hyped over the years..same hype.. usually always amazing in all ways, good to use and perform with but always lack the good sound. Luckily you can get even a crap sounding synth to sound good with an extensive effect chain that is basically my approach.  If I had a bigger budget to spend on synths I would probably had preferred to use more analogue or hardware synths.



357
Samsung 37 inch LCD (1080/120 mHz) in the living room
LG 32 inch LCD (720/60 mHz) in the bedroom...it suits us fine since we don't watch much TV there

I will be buying a 46 inch LG LED (1080/120 mHz) next because Samsungs are more expensive and I can't tell that much difference between the two plus I have had some issues with my Samsung (3 of the 4 HDMI inputs went bad within 1 year...a problem with lots of Samsungs back a few years ago).

I know plasmas give a better picture, but I have had no issues with LCD...the picture is bright enough, the blacks are black enough (for me) and the viewing angle is more than good enough for our rather narrow living room.

I think a problem with LCDs is that they in many cases are too bright.. makes it too sharp and hurts the eyes kind of...plasmas is more relaxing on the eyes.. imo

358
I don't dispute that a web site selling projectors is less objective about the benefits of projectors, but as I said, everything in their "Why projectors?" article seems correct in my experience, comparing the projector picture to other LED and Plasma TVs that I have owned and seen elsewhere.

Honestly I haven't shopped or compared models carefully in a while, because the projector we have is still very good despite its age. The model I purchased has been updated many times, and this is the newest:

http://www.projectorpeople.com/Panasonic-PT-AE8000U/Projector/27643

It is around $2,000 with a rebate, so not very expensive compared to a larger TV.


I did watch the youtube videos on that site...I must say it got me interested...
obviously it has both good contrast and black level too.

Is panasonic on the fore front when it comes to projectors... it would save time for me if I only need to focus on Panasonic projectors..

359
well let me guess, another super flexible product with terrible sound quality...
usually that is the way... it is not often both worlds meet together.

The new Prophet 12 seemed amazing but it sounded like a average soft synth...
Or the Solaris synth. So much focus on everything else besides the pure sound. 

Well anyway...this might be unique who knows the prototype looks atleast different..
it will be intersting to see what all these buttons are for..either they are multi function buttons similar
to oberheim xpander/matrix 12, where each button is an object such as filter and you change parameters of the object with the knobs on the left. or the buttons are "cells with samples similar to a lot of software samplers or ableton session view...  On the top where it is just empty will probably be more knobs...


360
The Dell uses an IPS panel too. *drool* Using that would be like heaven to the eyes.


Yes want against the 21:9 format though, I bought the latest LG monitor in that format I sold after two weeks 16:9 is certainly a better all around monitor...a much more of the content is adapted to that format... not only videos but web pages..etc... I bought it for it to be a good DAW screen... but I realized it is important to have a good monitor when you do not use DAW too... and the 21:9 screen was not...

I really like the asus I hope it will drop in price a lot...




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