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Messages - Ekstasis

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341
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: KVR Black friday/cyber monday sales list
« on: December 06, 2013, 02:32:19 PM »
[

I believe the same is true of blind listening tests. Certainly different pieces of gear can have different sound. But very much of what we BELIEVE sounds different from one to the next is either no difference at all, or a difference so small that it can hardly be said to be worth paying for.

This isn't because people are assholes or dishonest or snobs (well, maybe a little bit of snobbery), but because of what I said above -- our expectations and desires exert more powerful influence over our perceptions than we realize.




Quote
regarding hedd, are you just talking about the converter ?
I think people do not buy it for that in first hand but for the processing...the processing elements are not so subtle..they are quite big. atleast from the samples I have heard.but to be honest I have not heard it in person...I might have the same experience as you, but as many of these tools the difference are in the metaphysical level, depends on how much focus you pay on the "small dots" where all dots represent a detail.

Again, I'm not saying the HEDD didn't sound different. Well, as a pure AD/DA without the harmonic effects stuff, I can't claim that I ever heard any improvement. The harmonic effects were noticeable, certainly. I never meant to argue that the HEDD 192 wasn't capable of coloring or shifting the sound. It was very subtle, though, and in the end, I was able to create more of a difference by running the signal through a piece of tube gear or applying a tiny bit of EQ.

There was a difference, but was it a $3,600 difference? Not for me. You can be all kinds of plugins that do similar things, and for my purposes, some of them are just as useful when it came down to actual sound -- not just expectations based on expense and exoticism.

The placebo effect is unfortunately a reality yes, but it really depends on what we are talking about,  for me I have no problem with coloring at all, despite the most critial part in the chain the DAC or monitor controller, if you are not able to feed a 100% trustworthy signal to your speakers you are doomed.

Regarding HEDD, well it is mastering tool, so it must be true to it's source so there is a certain limit on how much harmonic distortion that can be added I guess.. it is there to enhance not distort too much.

 

342
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: KVR Black friday/cyber monday sales list
« on: December 06, 2013, 02:24:58 PM »
The old law of diminishing returns.
That last 5% costs you 1,000% more.
And yet for most of the music people are recording it makes no significant difference at all.


Totally agreed. I have no problem with people paying for specialized or luxury goods that make them happy -- in that sense, they are "worth it" to them, even if we don't understand the value.

Where I have a problem is with gear that makes no audible difference, as proven in blind listening tests, when people argue even subsequent to this proof that the gear is better anyway. If it's better, it should at least be discernible in blind testing. Even if it IS discernible in blind testing, there's the question of whether the difference is worth the price.

Even with blind tests there are still so many factors.. will the rest of the system you use be able to make the change audible ?
Also depends how the test is done sounds you feed the test. I have heard so many blind tests, and most of the time they feed it with totally wrong type of sounds or music.  Me personally I find it easier to hear the difference with more sustaining sounds it makes it easier to hear how it evolve with the time, reverbed with a bed of transients which makes it a lot details more auideable, and most important of all fill the whole frequency spectrum,  in most case juts some standard jazz or pop production, I Think that does not always do the job..I rather feed it with more extreme sound with a lot of details, I Would prefer just ambient sounds actually but that is intelligent made that you can uncover all details and flaws.

So to summon, blind tests are good when they are done. In many cases blind tests are just done to prove that for instance cheaper alternative sound as good as the expensive alternative, with the right kind of source audio it is probably possible.

I think both blind tests and theoretical testes i needed.  Your ear can be easily fooled, for instance the human ear tend often to prefer a colored sound it can give a sense that it sounds better.


343
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: KVR Black friday/cyber monday sales list
« on: December 06, 2013, 02:05:36 PM »
I just got sucked into reading a few threads on Gearslutz. Wow, it's really amazing the lengths people will go to, trying to convince themselves that a certain piece of gear sounds better. 

Every time someone does a blind listening test, it proves 90% of the preferences people have expressed are wishful thinking, and still, many people are willing (glad, even) to spend large amounts of money on equipment that can't possibly make any audible difference in their work.
 
That's why I sold my Cranesong HEDD. Yes, it made an "audible difference," but when I was honest with myself, the difference was not worth $3600 or whatever it was I spent on the thing... not even close.

Well the problem is we are biological beings, if we where digital beings I think it would be easier for us..cause then our subjective experience would be more consistent, it is just too many factors that vary now...

regarding hedd, are you just talking about the converter ?
I think people do not buy it for that in first hand but for the processing...the processing elements are not so subtle..they are quite big. atleast from the samples I have heard.but to be honest I have not heard it in person...I might have the same experience as you, but as many of these tools the difference are in the metaphysical level, depends on how much focus you pay on the "small dots" where all dots represent a detail.


344
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: KVR Black friday/cyber monday sales list
« on: December 06, 2013, 12:28:49 PM »
This video is such a classic the guys reaction when testing the new Trinity clock.

Carlos Castro - Part 2

345
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: KVR Black friday/cyber monday sales list
« on: December 06, 2013, 12:00:02 PM »
God damn, I hate gearslutz. What a bunch of douchebags.

Its a crazy place. The only advice and tid-bits I ever pick up from there any more are practical, I almost never go there for gear recommendations or advice as there is always someone with an ax to grind or an agenda. Not everyone, but man its getting harder and harder to wade through the muck.

Back on track here, I met most of the Antelope guys at AES and got a run through of their gear, they make some sick stuff. They make a clock thats like $7-8k...for a master clock, and it looks like a piece of artwork to boot.

Also dollar for dollar their new Orion 32 is just amazing for how many channels of conversion you get for the price.

Oh and Mike, don't get me going on the audiophile forums...I have just started getting into Hi-Rez downloads and the guys at most of the audiophile forums are nuts!!! Its definitly a game for the rich to play.

Yes I am aware of the Orion 32, I would say, it has a really good value depending on your needs.
If you want a monitor controller in your studio, Orion 32 might not be for you...especially if you want a relay based,  I would had consider it if I had a RME HDSPe  MADI FX card, in fact when I did start build my studio the Orion was just released, not many tests, but now it seem the convert tests show extremely good results they are now rated among their best. 

If it wasn't for the black friday deal I would never have bought the Eclipse that is for sure..more possible the orion 32 and a RME HDSPe MADI FX card...  But the good things since I got my Eclipse for such a good price I can sell it with very small loss...cause I know the market value...

But since I have invested a lot of money in both AES cables and a RME HDSPe AES card I did deiced to go with AES. AES is more used anyway...  but I guess...unfortunately it will be maybe less and less common I hope not.. cause in studio you can have both very new and very old gear... good things with AES is that it works on both new and legacy products...so it is more universal. and soundwise the right cables it is very good.

USB and thunderbolt solve the jitter problem but it does introduce latency problems instead and also increased CPU cycles.
 
Before I die I want to atleast try the Atomic antelope clock mixed with the trinity clock you should have both for a complete system.. but I guess until then they have probably released new clock...

EDIT: The black friday offer ends today, so be fast.

346
I don't dispute that a web site selling projectors is less objective about the benefits of projectors, but as I said, everything in their "Why projectors?" article seems correct in my experience, comparing the projector picture to other LED and Plasma TVs that I have owned and seen elsewhere.

Honestly I haven't shopped or compared models carefully in a while, because the projector we have is still very good despite its age. The model I purchased has been updated many times, and this is the newest:

http://www.projectorpeople.com/Panasonic-PT-AE8000U/Projector/27643

It is around $2,000 with a rebate, so not very expensive compared to a larger TV.



yeah so you only save money if you have bigger picture..but I guess most people go for atleast 100 inch.

what about burn time ????
I have heard projectors have a certain burn time...
how much does it cost to change the...lamp ?

347
as my friend told me, projector people is maybe not the most objective site :)

348
The place where I bought my projector has a "why buy a projector?" page that covers most of this.

http://www.projectorpeople.com/resources/projectors-vs-TVs.asp

Of course, this place is trying to sell projectors, but I don't believe anything they say is unreasonable. They're hyping 3D, and I think 3D is mostly a gimmick, but they don't say anything dishonest about it.

The simple answer about the difference is that the technology in a projector is the same as with a panel TV -- it's just projected bigger, so you're looking at the same quality but larger. The human eye can't discern individual pixels in a 50" 1080p screen from across the room, so you can blow up the 1080p image much larger than that and actually gain discernible detail.

It's not "magic" of course -- black levels are harmed by ambient room light. Of course panel TVs have problems with reflections on the screen, though panel TVs have less of a problem with this kind of thing than projectors.


Well interesting, I thought projects had not chance against the latest tvs.
I usually have very little amount of lights in my apartment, often no lights in the night only computer, I also live on the first floor
so for that reason I always have my blind down...

How much do you need to spend to a good projector which would compete with the best tvs today ?

349
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: KVR Black friday/cyber monday sales list
« on: December 06, 2013, 09:37:52 AM »
I've seen the same thing in audiophile forums and message groups. Many of the participants have a product or service, and all their posts end up being promotional boosts to their own product, and negative tear-downs of all the competitors' offerings.

Yet another reason to avoid audiophile forums!

Yeah..it is quite sad when people like that destroys forums... makes it impossible to trust anyone when their is people there with commercial interests.. . well it is at least good when they are open and tell the people who they are working for... but I know not all people do.

350
Front projection is definitely the highest quality picture in most respects. It's definitely not an obsolete technology (though admittedly our projector is an older model). Most of the serious home theater enthusiasts I know use front projectors, though many of them probably also have a more ordinary TV in their living room for comfortably watching football games or whatever. That's the one and only drawback to this -- it doesn't tolerate ambient room light. But if you have a room prepared for this (blackout curtains and so on), there is no better home theater experience.

Actually, I forgot a 2nd drawback - the lamps don't last forever, so every few years, you need to replace the lamp.

You can now get a good quality 1080p projector for under $2000. Right before I bought this, the suggested retail price was something crazy like $7,995, though I didn't pay anywhere near that much.

Everyone who sees a movie in our home theater is blown away by how good it looks, and how immersive the viewing experience is with such a big picture, even people with large and expensive 1080p panels at home.

If you project this on the wall (which is what I do) you can make the "screen" as large as you want, though it will be slightly less bright at larger sizes as the lamp's light is dispersed across a broader area. I had planned to purchase a projector screen for this, but was very pleasantly surprised at the great quality of the picture projected on an ordinary wall. Our screen area is something like 140" diagonally, maybe a little more.

I was not aware..

THat is the advantages and drawbacks compared to the best tvs ?

How is the black levels and contrast ? on projectors ?

351
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: KVR Black friday/cyber monday sales list
« on: December 06, 2013, 09:30:02 AM »
I should walk back my own comment a little. There are plenty of knowledgeable, cool and enthusiastic people there. The problem is the few people who are so superior and condescending in every post. It makes my teeth hurt.


The problem is when people from companies with a secret agenda post 
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/705748-lynx-hilo-now-available.html

The guy from Lynx is posting slamming all other companies, he claim of course that Hilo has superior jitter performance.
I have been talking with Antelope about it they say they are thinking about reporting him..he have posted a lot of threads and documents which is just plain lies just to hurt companies and to sell more lynx products.. guys like him really destroy the forum... there is false information on there so you must take everything with a grain of salt all the time.

352
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: KVR Black friday/cyber monday sales list
« on: December 06, 2013, 08:52:57 AM »
Sorry to strike a future blow to your bank account man, but apparently they've discovered that “triple clocking” takes this box all the way to 100% perfection!

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/660708-antelope-eclipse-384-converter-2.html


Yeah I have heard most use 2 clocks but 3 clocks feels just insane.  I will be happy with one (for now)  :)

353
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: KVR Black friday/cyber monday sales list
« on: December 06, 2013, 07:36:21 AM »
what sort of deal did you get on it? the list price is nearly equal to everything I have....

Swedish list price is

64 000
or 57 000 these where the only stores that have it, I bought it from the store who had it for 64 000 standard price, I did call them and told them
that Antelope have a special Black Friday Sale, so I got mine from 64 000 to 35 600 :)
I am very happy to find  out about the black friday sale..crazy price... because of the huge sums the amount of money you save is immense.
The price i bought it for is the "second hand" price I can sell it for..which feel good to know.

354
This is our primary TV:



It's a Panasonic PT AE1000U projector. It's getting a bit old, but it was considered quite high-end when I bought it in 2007. Back then, 1080P projectors were brand new.

A front projector setup only works in a room where ambient light is controlled. Sunlight leaking around curtains really ruins it.


Cool I thought no one used those projectors anymore :)

But it must be nice to get a really big screen how big scree you have ?

I guess it is ok in a dark room atleast.
But I would not trust it when it comes to color reproduction etc

355
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: KVR Black friday/cyber monday sales list
« on: December 06, 2013, 07:31:27 AM »
I'm dying to know: What does "OVEN" mean on the display? Is this a truly flexible piece of equipment (also makes cupcakes)? Or is that tech-speak for something I don't understand?


They use a "Oven Controlled Crystal Oscillator" as clock, my understanding of it  is that it is a temperature-controlled chamber to make sure that the clock stay at a constant temperature, since the environmental temperature is constantly chaining.  If the clock have has unstable temperature it will affect how stable the clock is.  Antelope also have a atomic clock..but because of the price it is nothing you buy the first thing you do but maybe the last thing in the studio when you have all other things you need

http://antelopeaudio.com/en/products/10M-atomic-clock

the Eclipse have the Isochrone Trinity inside.  So it is a very good value for this box,  it has a AD and DA converter, and a monitor controller with relay based volume adjustment which is very rare,  and also the Isochrone Trinity clock . It is like 4 units on one box.

356
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: KVR Black friday/cyber monday sales list
« on: December 05, 2013, 05:45:42 AM »
Yeah I got the deal... The Antelope Eclipse is now mine... should have it within 1-2 weeks.


357
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: KVR Black friday/cyber monday sales list
« on: December 05, 2013, 12:54:27 AM »
Today...is the Last day of the Antelope black Friday

in a few hours I will call a Swedish store...the price will determine if I buy the Antelope Eclipse or not.


358
Art and Literature, Movies and TV / Re: what Tv series should I see ?
« on: December 04, 2013, 11:44:38 PM »
still trying to find a series to watch after rewatching the SGU.

By the way I forgot another series I watched this summer was "Invasion" from 2005. Do not miss that one...
it is very underrated... and totally amazing. but no season 2.

359
Everything and Nothing / What TV do you have ? Plasma/LCD/OLED other ?
« on: December 04, 2013, 11:40:25 PM »
Show us your television, are you happy with it, which tv do you want to buy... ?



I got the second last Plasma generation ever (panasonic did stop making plasma 2013)
  The ST50, I got the 55 inch model.
ST50 was rated as the best TV in 2012 by Cnet, after extensive research I did buy it.
It did not look mindblowing in the store, but in a dark room the screen did really come to life.
Very deep blacks and great contrast and colors. I am 100% happy with the buy. I had a sony triniton tv 32 inch before that..
I hold patiently myself of buying a new tv for many years, I did not like LCD,  and I know OLED was around the corner reading about different breakthroughs some years before 2012,  I was ready to sacrifice about 5300 dollars for a OLED tv because I have waited so long and I had stood out with this crap tv for about 10 years and not jumping on the flat tv train until 2012.. in lat 2011, LG did leak the pricing of their upcoming OLED to be released in Q1 of 2013, the price did turn out to be about twice as expensive as I had planned to sacrifice,  I did quickly realize I will have to wait atleast 4-5 years until they reach humane levels so I quckily decide I have to buy something that is available on the market... I new Plasma did share many of the qualities of OLED technology. So I bought one, LCD was never really a choice..

 My old TV was a crt,  triniton, it had amazing contrast and blacklevel, but the only thing that was missing was really the HD resolution.  so when I got my Panasonic it took some time to get used to the HD resolution, it was totally mindblowing, and the first weeks I consider one of the best in my life...

In a few years I hope OLED technology will be more common and also more affordalble, I am very sure I will get the same feeling I got with my plasma when I get an OLED TV..it is a totally new level...

My dream tv... The 55 inch LG. But honestly, I will keep my plasma for at least 4 more years most likely..


360
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: My Music Studio in Progress!!!
« on: December 04, 2013, 02:48:32 PM »
Nice gear.

Thank you, well it is atleast a start...
I am inte the process of trying to get a good deal of the Antelope Eclipse now..I hope I can get it for the pirce.

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