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Messages - Immersion

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341
Art and Literature, Movies and TV / Re: what Tv series should I see ?
« on: November 24, 2013, 09:23:02 AM »
By "cheesy" you mean the "best thing that ever appeared on network television", right?  ;D

I did try to go through half the first season..I just could not understand why people adore this show soo much...
maybe I will some time in the future.

342
Art and Literature, Movies and TV / Re: what Tv series should I see ?
« on: November 24, 2013, 09:14:40 AM »
If you want to go "old school," Twin Peaks is excellent.

If you like comedy, 30 Rock is hilarious.

Even though I like David Lynch movies I could not stand twin peaks...it is just too cheesy

344
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 23, 2013, 10:24:52 PM »
I can understand why Immersion would be passionate about having the best sound quality. However, like Tomas and others have said, music is ultimately subjective and most people can't tell the difference between the best quality and something that's just average or below that. For example, there are people out there that probably can't tell the difference between FLAC and MP3.

I think I'm going to stick with my setup for the most part and just try to improve upon using the things that I have, like Paul and I think some others suggested. I'm sure there's a lot than I can improve upon in terms of recording and production. I feel like I have good ideas and a distinct sound, so I think I can definitely build off of that and get better.

If it sounds right for you, it´s right! You know better than anyone else what you are looking for….and IF there is something you want to improve, you always have the chance to adjust your sound to a specific "reference" by tweaking the material or (if necessary) to update your gear. And - for the latter - there is no hurry in today as gear improves constantly and also gets cheaper in price….if you buy the same sound card now (i.e. which was 3 years ago the top notch) no one can say it´s crap just because newer stuff is available now  ;)

Yes, I think we all know what is best and the most ultimate sound for ourselves.. every one has it's own personal and "superior" taste... so yeah there is nothing really wrong..  My first album that got me into ambient was Robert Rich - Stalker, so already then I did set my bar quite high..

Well I am sorry to tell you, but I find some kind of time pressure, I am reaching 30, I am starting to realize you do not live forever, and life is short.
I also know artistic creativity is not exactly something that gets easier with the years, I still have it in me, but let see how it is when I am starting to reach 40.
So it feels like a battle against the time... I wish I could slow down time...

I am trying to buy stuff that will age well, that will keep is value if I sell it also, and most high end stuff age well also and have good second hand value...
the Lynx Aurora I am selling now I sell for more then what I bought it for.

My Trident HG3 they have actually dropped a lot in price since I bought them.  I bought them for 5,045.57 USD they are now down to 3,799.37 USD, but I think that price is stabilized now for a long time.

345
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 23, 2013, 10:14:42 PM »
I know you asked for 3 samples, I find it a big problem to give you 3 samples that showcase all I like I have no "ultimate samples"  I am afraid, but you got the list of the albums I like so you get the idea what I am looking for.

Do not worry the list was copy paste it did not took me much time..

Quote
You are clearly the master of presumptions! Please quote the person who said such a statement in this thread!….i´m sorry to say, but you won´t find anyone!

Well I was reading it before, by more then one person, saying that the with the right "craft" you can make cheap equipment sound better then expensive equipment if you do not have the "craft".. I agree with this, but if you have the craft more high end equipment will of course sound better. My argument is why be happy with something if you can make it sound even better ?  To some people the limit seem to be even reached even with low and mid end equipment, it is personal how far you will take your sound and how much you focus on the details.   Some people send there music to mastering, I want a mastered sound always, using mostly anaouge outboard gear to create that extra "magic" in the music and take all together make all transients sound wonderful etc.  I can do all this in the box but I want to take it to the next level with the real thing instead of emulations.

346
Not to complain or anything but is there any specific reason why the default theme of the forum is the default obviously there is themes that looks way better IMO.
I think not many people are aware that you can change it...it kind of hard to see it... Maybe one should be informed during sign up ?

For your information there is only about 10 people of 806 that use the other themes.

347
Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Nick Parkin
« on: November 23, 2013, 09:31:45 PM »

348
Now Playing / Re: Currently listening, part 1
« on: November 23, 2013, 09:27:28 PM »
Deuter- Haleakala

Not a huge fan of Deuter but this is a great album IMO. I feel like he really declined after he left Kuckuck though.

Deuter - Tibet: Nada Himalaya 2

That their best album IMO

349
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 23, 2013, 08:57:01 PM »
Quote from: Immersion
I am very sorry that I stood up to defend good sound quality.
 I understand most people have tight budgets I have too but I prioritize..
But it is really sad that one have to defend himself about good sound quality, it is sad that it is only about getting away as
cheap as possible, it is ok but what is not ok is when they say that it sounds as good as more higher end equipment.
To compare soundtoys with the H8000FW is like night and day..
I stand what what I say that soundtoys is more of sound mangle tools. But with that said it can still be useful..just don't say compare with the H8000..
that can be seen like an insult to some I can imagine...the same goes with all other equipment that is "nonsense" to buy it is also and insult of people
who invested in it... 

And it is too much talk about converters, pre amps, microphones, summing, and effects all make more difference then converters,
there are marginal difference, unless you buy a BURL which I intend to do it has a transformer which you can drive with optional level..
This kind of converter makes difference but it is really the transformer that makes the difference, but some converter might ad some kind of colours while
most are made to be discreet.

Alright I am tired now, of defending myself and sound quality as I said I find it sad that people do not have more respect for the sound and treat it as the cosmic phenomenon  it is... and try picture it on a sub atomic level in your mind...it is beautiful.


Immersion, i think you have a fundamental misunderstood about what people complaining!

Nobody is saying, that good quality isn´t appreciated - but it might be helpful to re-read your posts again and to understand how you express yourself! The problem is, that you speak about FACTS (!!!!) to whatever issue it comes. Examples from your latest post?

"To compare soundtoys with the H8000FW is like night and day.."

"I understand most people are more interested how to cheat the best possible sound with cheaper stuff and mask it in different ways with mixing technique"

As long as you speak only for your opinion then express it this way and don´t include ALL the others with your FACTS…you know as it is…opinions are like assholes…anybody has one  ;)

If you believe in what your are searching for…go for it but it´s a mistake to tell others what is the BEST, as the BEST does´t exist AT ALL….you can have the "best" gear but may fail to make music or to end up to be just a gear collector. At the end of the day, no one of the audience cares if you have Lexicon, Avaton, UAD or whatever…..for them ONLY the whole content, message and mood of the music is important - they give a shit about converters, bit rate and if the source is analogue or 100% digital. The only person who has a problem with this is actually YOU as you claim to be the "sound police".

Here are plenty people with enough experiences and they know very well what and how to archive results….if you talk ultimate about X or Y then at last prove it in some ways…either by audio examples, links or whatever…but just speaking ultimately about something without any example isn´t valuable - neither for professionals nor for starters in this forum.


Well I guess I am not the only who to to make opinions to Facts... I try at least to be open I am always talking about that it is only it is own inner satisfaction that really matters.. You should make music for your own stimulation not for others in first hand.

Regarding soundtoys and H8000FW,  it is a matter of preference of course, but some person in this thread said that he had no need for h8000fw cause he use soundtoys, he also said that eventide was behind it, and for that reason it must also be equally as good ? should that be taken was fact ?
I have tried many plugs and when it comes "True the source" soundtoys is one of the worst,  I wish you was here so I can prove to you.

Well I was hoping about have a discussion about how creating the best sound quality possible, of course, what is best for me does not fit all,  the main argument here is that is not worth to invest money in "too expensive" equipment, cause you can mask it with eq and different mixing techniques.
I just find it to be a tragic attitude , me as a fan of pro audio would never agree with that, I just guess that some people are happy with less, some people want more, and where small differences becomes gigantic.  I know for sure that my analouge equipment I will buy will be a good investment, it will sound even better then my digital emulations.

well, you are asking for sound examples, but if you have been reading my earlier post I think you should remember
that the production should convey the atmosphere it is projecting...For instance I can really like Oophoi's more metallic lo-fi sound..
But I really like steve roach big analogue sound and robert rich...I like Asianova's really lo-fi sound.  It does not need to sound extremely high quality and super clean
it is not what it is about.

I can give you atleast of my favorite ambient albums in no particual order

Aeoga - Zenith Beyond the Helix-Locus (2005)
Aeoga - COAV (2004)
Alio Die & Mathias Grassow - Expanding Horizon (2002)
Arcana - Le serpent rouge (2004)
Asianova - Suite Dreams (2004)
Asianova - Love Like a Veiled Threat (2005)
Asianova - At the Last Gate (2006)
Asianova - Terminal Ferocity (2006)
Elend - Sunwar the Dead (2004)
Christine Groult - La condition captive (2007)
Halo Manash - Par-Antra I: VIR (2004)
Halo Manash - SYoMA (2004)
Byron Metcalf - The Shaman's Heart (2005)
Oophoi - Athlit (2002)
Oophoi - Signals From the Great Beyond (2005)
Oöphoi & Faryus - Forgotten Rituals (2007)
Oöphoi & Tau Ceti - Algol (2006)
Nick Parkin - Refract (2006)
Brian Parnham - Mantle (2007)
Robert Rich - Below Zero (1998)
Robert Rich - Somnium (2001)
Robert Rich - Illumination (2007)
Robert Rich - Live Archive Volume 4 | Alien Zoology: Live at Morrison Planetarium, San Francisco, December 9 2001 (2009)
Robert Rich & B. Lustmord - Stalker (1995)
Robert Rich & Lisa Moskow - Yearning (1995)
Steve Roach - Dreamtime Return (1988)
Steve Roach - The Magnificent Void (1996)
Steve Roach - Early Man (2000)
Steve Roach - Midnight Moon (2000)
Steve Roach - Darkest Before Dawn (2002)
Steve Roach - Mystic Chords & Sacred Spaces (2003)
Steve Roach - Immersion: Two (2006)
Steve Roach - Immersion: Three (2007)
Steve Roach - A Deeper Silence (2008)
Steve Roach & Loren Nerell - Terraform (2006)
Steve Roach, Byron Metcalf & Mark Seelig - Mantram (2004)
Seofon - Zero Point (2001)
Ure Thrall - The Bone Tree Soundtracks Vol. 2: Infinitree (2004)
U-R-I - The Bone Tree Soundtracks vol 1 (2000)
Voice of Eye - Transmigration (1995)
Zoät·Aon - Star Autopsy (2005)

Voice of Eye - Transcendence


List of non ambient prodcutions remember youtube is not the best audio quality

Dolorian - the one whose name has no end


Ephel Duath - "Crystalline Whirl"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM9WW4pP

Deathspell Omega - Abscission (high quality)


Esoteric - The Blood Of The Eyes


CULT OF LUNA - "Waiting for You"


EVOKEN | The Last Of Vitality


Neurosis - At The End Of The Road [live visuals]


Virus - Inward Bound


Gorguts - Obscura [FULL ALBUM]


Isis - In Fiction HD 1080p


Ved Buens Ende - Written in Waters [Full - HD]



I can go on an on.

350
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 23, 2013, 07:17:13 PM »
Quote from: Immersion
But I can't simply find any driving force to create the music I have in my visions unless I get that dream sound I want my driving force is to take things one step further and the general production is for me for my own inner satisfaction a lot in the sound itself, ..and I am very close now in my studio where the equipment gives me really all the tools I need to realize my visions.  This was the only way for me..

Do you have some examples of music/albums on the market you would call it has this "dream sound", "clean" and "great production" you are looking for? Just 2 or 3 example i would like to hear from you so I can understand it better.



Quote from: Immersion
One of the main reason I bought my H8000 was cause I play guitar and it is just easy and inspiring tool.. one of the reason I want more outboard gear is cause I want to be less dependent on plugins I just want to be able to record more easy in real time and have things ready to record all the time, not dealing with plugs more then I have too, when I record I am always more of guy who prefer to record longer takes in real time. I am not a cut and paste guy.  Cause I want to sit down and express myself and let my mind drift away with the music.

So, you are saying you can´t record in realtime without hardware? As you have to setup software for that first, the same goes for hardware.

Quote from: Immersion
I prefer the analogue sound I use almost only virtual analogue plugins, and it is quite obvious that the real thing will sound even better then these plugins.

You should really bring concrete examples (so we can listen to the differences) instead of claiming facts all the time…."it is quite obvious" is such a meaningless phrase for instance.

Regarding albums it is simply too much to mention  and what style of music are we talking about ?
I am not only making ambient I am also making metal and rock yeah my spectrum is wide.

I can record in real time with software also but it will be easier with my H8000Fw sure...
I would not need to worry about the CPU going bezerk.. and it will be easier to just write the presets and I have a preset which equals to 10 effects in a chain and add multiple channels my daw..so it faster for me...in my DAW I would have to add long chains of effects I just want to make my work flow faster and less effortless.

I think Klaus Shuzle once said that he had only wanted to set up his workflow that he could record his music with his eyes closed, that is exactly what I am looking for..I do not want any intellectual things such as opening windows in the computer or anything to disturb my emotional music expression.  I think the more you work in the box further away you get to express yourself with emotion, it affects your state of mind.  Right now I feel it is hard to record in the right state of mind cause it is simply too much crap to deal with. It is not inspiring. But I can make it done if I want..but it crates alot more effort then it has too, that is why I want to record music more like if it was a live concert...to get this human flow in the music.

 


351
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 23, 2013, 06:55:52 PM »
Quote from: Immersion

To hear any difference you need first of all get the best monitors possible, I think no one can really can deny that expensive monitors sound better then cheaper ones, and I am telling you, that my new HG3 speakers have open up new dimensions. Difference that was very very subtle before now gets very clear...I think the better monitors you have the more picky you will automatically become with the rest of your chain, and maybe the stuff you have now does not sound as good as it did before.

I just have some Neumann´s and they aren´t expensive….but they are more expansive than Behringer…..but not as much as expansive than yours. So it seems like expansive is relative - right? So in your theory your monitors are better then mine just because they are more expansive - thats a funny logic….I always thought monitors are working tools and not a replacement for libido fixation  ;D

When it comes ti microphones there is some very good cheap microphones too especially from china...
When it comes to studio monitors there is without doubt a connection between sound quality and price. 3 way monitors are usually a lot more expensive.
Personally I would only go for a 3 way monitor it makes such big difference.

Your speaker might sound better but not more "true" perhaps, what speakers are you using if I might ask ?
I am sure you use professional studio monitors... with quite flat frequency response.... Maybe they sound "better" but it is not about which sound better.
I would not say my speaker sound "good" they just sound "true" they can sound ugly and totally disgusting if the production is that...that is how it should be..
but it makes a lot of music sound terrible that is for sure.. they are brutally honest... a lot of albums that sounded good before does not sound good any more in my speakers.

I think you can get speakers that sound very good for cheaper money but to have them sound true, they go up in price...

352
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 23, 2013, 06:47:34 PM »
Quote from: Immersion
Why I have not released anything is ONLY because of economical reasons I would say, it has taking me a lot of time to save up, first for a new computer 2009, I had a really slow computer before…

Well, then it´s definitely time for a new computer also….i mean, a machine from 2009 isn´t really the BEST!

Sorry, but I couldn´t resist  :D

BTW: Releasing music isn´t depending on economical reasons - plenty of labels out there!

Yeah you are right it has become quite old. :)
Maybe you have missed the fact the Intel has no completion any more, because AMD does not release anything good.
so Intels Research team have been on vacation for a long time now.  yeah the computer is soon 4 years, but considering how slow intel
has released new CPUs I would not say it feels more like 2 years.

I use a overclocked Intel 920 (nehalem) overclocked from 2.6GHZ to 3.5GHZ
it has age pretty well if you ask me...

have you compared with benchmarks from the latest cpus from intel overlocked ?
the difference does simply not justify a upgrade... I think in the end of 2014 it will be time.. Intel will release a new cpu architecture in 14nm then it could be a big difference I hope..

for a DAW computer MHZ is more important then cores... using a apple 12 vore will not solve the problem because if one core is maxed it will not work. and plugs can mostly use on 1 core..

353
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 23, 2013, 06:41:52 PM »
I'm pleased to see how many people feel as I do, that the endless pursuit of the most expensive gear is actually a distraction from the preferable goal of understanding your gear, and doing something interesting with it.

Or maybe we all have different bars of sound quality ?
I do not buy your argument that cheap equipment can sounds as good as expensive (more good equipment) it is nothing then a plain lie and that is attitues like that
I think is the last thing ambient artists needs...


WTF, who are you talking to?

"A plain lie?" First of all, I never said cheap equipment sounds as good as higher-quality equipment. Nobody else said that, either -- the closest was Paul saying it's possible to make good-sounding recordings with less expensive gear if your really know what you're doing.

The nearest thing I said was that it's more important to use good equipment and understand how to use it, than to endlessly chase the most expensive item in each category. I guarantee you haven't heard a decrease in the sound quality of recordings I've mastered since I sold the Cranesong and started using a Presonus Firestudio as the interface with my computer. One box cost $4,000, the other was less than $1,000, yet the switch from one to the other does not result in worse-sounding recordings coming out of my studio, either my own work or the albums I master here. You might argue that the newer recordings MUST sound worse, because they went through a less expensive converter, but that simply isn't how it works in the real world.

Seriously, Immersion, I appreciate your intention to argue in favor of using good gear, but your tone is extremely condescending toward several people who certainly know more about audio recording than you do, and who have been using that knowledge to release ambient recordings into the world for many years. You're entitled to your opinion, but philosophies dreamed-up in a studio that doesn't actually record or release any work, no matter the price tag, simply don't match up to philosophies derived from practical experience.

I have explained that the craft how to use the equipment is more important, but you come to a limit where the equipment becomes a limiting factor.
You say you hear no difference now then when you had your HEDD, well are you only talking about the converters I guess so..
I am sure it would be hard to tell the difference if you have good converters.  There is a big difference between good and bad converters, but you come to a point where the converters are not the most important thing but other things in your chain, such as pre amp, transformers how hard you drive them, or even tubes if you use it.  Soo many other factors.  All I am saying I do not like people who look down on people who prefer the best possible sound quality,  I understand most people are more interested how to cheat the best possible sound with cheaper stuff and mask it in different ways with mixing technique it is nothing wrong to that, but I prefer to have the best possible sound chain as possible I am almost picture the electrical current inside my mind, picturinge the whole audio chain for me it is a spirtial experience when I know that all these electrons pass thru the best circuits possible it give me a inner sense satisfaction, when I know the whole chain is clean.  I can of couse respect that a lot of people think this perspective is total nonsense and that I should spend money on some magic plugin instead,  But I get this kind of emotional attachment to the equipment and it givies me driving force and inspiration, that is why a lot of people like analogue gear  they have an emotional attachment to it, it is hard to feel the same way with all digital . As I say I understand that people think it is nonse, and that the only thing that matters is the final output and they do not car about the sound on an electron level, as  I said we all have different respect of the sound and perceive it different. 


I say again how important the monitors are, the better monitors you use the more details you will hear.
The need for better equipment is not really needed until you have "can hear it" for that you need enough good monitors.
Difference between monitors as we know...are huge...

Mike, well you say my tone is condescending to people well I am sorry for that, but I feel the same when people look down on professional equipment, seeing it as redundant equipment and stupid, cause it is better to buy cheaper equipment and cheat with different mixing techniques to mask it's flaws. I think it show no respect to professional audio at all with that kind of attitude, when we here people say "why should we buy this and that", well if it sounds better it should be reason enough, yet one have to argue about why to buy professional and good sounding equipment.

I use a lot of plugins to I have said that, but my VA plugs I want to use real analogue equipment, to color and saturate sound, driving transformers hard, create harmonics etc, this kind of "magic" can to some degree but done already in the DAW but all these VA plugins make my computer sink totally, I can't use it for anything else  and I get scratches in the sound constantly, when I use them.  Just one instance of Lush 101 takes almost too much already.  The main problem is that every plugs use only one core...

I do not appricate you comparing and say that this and that know more then you about audio, just because he have released and album ?
I have been recording for many years too, it is just that I have not released anything, but there is no reason to go the sandbox level and start with personal attacks,
I have not been giving any one any personal attacks, but as you said I am entitled to an opinion I am grateful for that Mike, thank you so much. 

I am very sorry that I stood up to defend good sound quality.
 I understand most people have tight budgets I have too but I prioritize..
But it is really sad that one have to defend himself about good sound quality, it is sad that it is only about getting away as
cheap as possible, it is ok but what is not ok is when they say that it sounds as good as more higher end equipment.
To compare soundtoys with the H8000FW is like night and day..
I stand what what I say that soundtoys is more of sound mangle tools. But with that said it can still be useful..just don't say compare with the H8000..
that can be seen like an insult to some I can imagine...the same goes with all other equipment that is "nonsense" to buy it is also and insult of people
who invested in it... 

And it is too much talk about converters, pre amps, microphones, summing, and effects all make more difference then converters,
there are marginal difference, unless you buy a BURL which I intend to do it has a transformer which you can drive with optional level..
This kind of converter makes difference but it is really the transformer that makes the difference, but some converter might ad some kind of colours while
most are made to be discreet.

Alright I am tired now, of defending myself and sound quality as I said I find it sad that people do not have more respect for the sound and treat it as the cosmic phenomenon  it is... and try picture it on a sub atomic level in your mind...it is beautiful.


354
Art and Literature, Movies and TV / what Tv series should I see ?
« on: November 23, 2013, 05:24:54 PM »
I need some good tv series to whatch, I only find half good series that feels like am wasting my time etc...I am trying Torchwood now it not that interesting so far..

Last series I have been watching have been

Fringe
Dexter
Breaking bad
Continuum
Terra Nova
Stargate (all series)

355
Art and Literature, Movies and TV / Re: Breaking Bad
« on: November 23, 2013, 05:22:44 PM »
I am not sure how people can say it was an excellent finale ?
Is Walter dead or alive in the last scene from what the looks it could be both..was a very vague end I guess that was the point...

Yeah Breaking bad was one of the absolute best series I have seen. What made it stand out was that it had longplay quality but in a tv series format..
It is not strange that it has 9.5 rating on imdb...when I saw the first episodes I could not imagine that it would be this good.

356
Other Ambient (and related) Music / Nick Parkin
« on: November 23, 2013, 04:52:05 PM »
Does any one like Nick Parkin, he creates Ambient and electroacoustic music

Refract is my favorute among his, I have not heard his latest album with Z´EV have totally missed that it was out..

http://www.nickparkin.com/discography.htm
http://www.discogs.com/artist/Nick+Parkin

I remember in a youtube interview he did explain the music some some kind a mix of nature and the rest overs of industrial Dystopia...
And I think it is a fitting description

357
Now Playing / Re: Currently listening, part 1
« on: November 23, 2013, 03:09:25 PM »
Tau Ceti - Four Short Pieces

358
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 23, 2013, 02:08:07 PM »
"Also, how much are you ready to pay for a more "effortless" experience when creating music, or do you prefer to work really hard
to make your cheap gear sound expensive, personally for me I am tired it, I want an inspiring setup that sounds amazing, not spend endless
time and energy to make something as I want when I can do that the on the fly with good equipment, that is the thing for me I want an effortless
way of expression and not have to deal with "crap"  just to save some money, cheap gear and most plugs does not inspire me I want that extra..."

Ah, but that's the rub.  For each new piece of complex piece of gear you add to the system, you steepen your potential learning curve and things can become harder, not more effortless.  It's much like the difference between going into a neighborhood grocery store that chooses its items wisely and going into the Costco warehouse.  I hope you're able to find your own bliss with your new aggregation of gear, but I would think that at some point, you would run the risk of getting diminishing returns out of the complexity of your setup.

Forrest

There will always be a learning curve..it is hard to avoid dealing with these kind of technology you need to know what you are doing..
There is a long road to creating a "effortless" environment of musical creativity expression. Steve roach is a master of this craft, in interviews you can read
how he let his system loop all day long so he can come there and express himself whenever he feels like it...I want it to be like that , I do not want to
be in my DAW going around in menus cheeking plugs I just want to record effortlessly,  that is why I bought my H8000FW. It will help me with that for sure,
especially since I am guitarist too,  some people might claim that I can use software reverb, but the eventide sound is so much more then just reverb, it is top quality modulation delays not comparably to any software, also pitching , also chorus and all..   I want to setup my studio so I as much as possible can record "live" on the fly and get as good possible in real time, even mastered and finishes quality ultimately (using the right summarize and sonic exciters) 

I am ware the eventide H8000fw can be very complex, Steve Roach told me it is a life machine, it is probably true.  I think with time I will go deeper and deeper with it, but it will take some time before I will even study the manual more in detail, to begin with I will just use the many presets in the H8000 as templates and then manipulate them via midi in real time with foot pedals or midi keyboards. The presets in these machines are one of the things that justify this high price, they are really useful.

359
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 23, 2013, 01:59:44 PM »
You have come to understand and know the sound and its quality from this high end gear and this is not something that is base on how much money a person has to spend....Burl converters on uneducated  ears within the home project studio would be a colossal waste of money.  This sound has to be learned.  Sort of like asking a person to taste a Chateau Lafite Rothschild Bordeaux when they are use to drinking sweet blush zinfandel wine.  Odds are they would spit it out.

I will always push the envelope for my self and go for the best gear I can afford and sometimes more than I can afford.  The complexity that Forrest suggest can be  an issue.  A great converter feed by a crappy pre amp or front end signal path will give what on the other side.....exactly.  So generally if say Burl which is the converter most talked about in this thread is your choice then the rest of the signal path should be of a similar quality or it is a pointless venture.  There can be a good deal of maintenance involve as well.

Ive mentioned this story before and like to when too much lofty high ended - ness dominates.   Bruce Springsteen's Fans consider his album "Nebraska" his best which was recorded on an 4 track cassette deck will the "Boss" was on tour way back when.  What the fans heard was not the tape hiss and poor quality record but the heart felt words and emotion he expressed. Certainly anyone would want to be able to capture every single subtle nuance of a performance that brilliant gear can do so well but the listener at the other end will be moved by the emotion not the the converters, pre amp or microphones used.

P.S......Great post Paul!

To hear any difference you need first of all get the best monitors possible, I think no one can really can deny that expensive monitors sound better then cheaper ones, and I am telling you, that my new HG3 speakers have open up new dimensions. Difference that was very very subtle before now gets very clear...
I think the better monitors you have the more picky you will automatically become with the rest of your chain, and maybe the stuff you have now does not sound as good as it did before. 

emotion is if you ask me superior to sonics in the essence of music... so yeah.. to use a 4 track recording and record real emotions is of course better then emotionless music with superior sonics....  but ultimately they should have both.. but most important of all it should fit the music, it is not about what sounds most "professional" which fit the music, and the inner pictures of what the music create....I see a lot of music today  where professionalism is the priority, the artist might sound very good live or on the demo recordings but in the studio you emotionless and "professional"... so yeah.. it is a thin line... personally I many times prefer the demo versions...even though they sound very bad, they have that emotion which is really beyond words...just a feeling..

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Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 23, 2013, 01:51:42 PM »
I'm pleased to see how many people feel as I do, that the endless pursuit of the most expensive gear is actually a distraction from the preferable goal of understanding your gear, and doing something interesting with it.

Or maybe we all have different bars of sound quality ?
I do not buy your argument that cheap equipment can sounds as good as expensive (more good equipment) it is nothing then a plain lie and that is attitues like that
I think is the last thing ambient artists needs,  in ambient music there is really no limit to have crystal clean audio you want.  As I have said I see ambient as on of the most cutting edge music when it comes to sound design,  so personally I do really not share you philosophy that you should not invest in as good equipment as you can, if they make no difference then you buy the wrong equipment,  good equipment will make dramtic difference I am not talking about very small differences here but they can make dramatical changes.  If you do not hear the the big difference you should invest in new monitors.   

My new Trident HG3 speakers have really revolutionized my listening but it has all increased my "critical listening"  errors do not slip thru as they do in many other speakers,  I even hear bigger difference between mp3 and wav, and it is mostly transient rich music, which is the weakness of the mp3 format to convey the transients, they gets soften strongly in the mp3 format.

Of course these is a symbiotic realtionship with the gear, I buy your argument that you need to craft the equipment and the craft is very important especially with cheaper equipment, with more expensive equipment everything sounds better with less effort and you need to know less studio tricks to make it sound good..
Also saves a lot of time.. do not deal with "crap" such as using a lot of time consuming "tricks" to mask the weaknesses in your gear.

It all is in balance, it comes to a limit where equipment becomes a limiting factor using your craft to full , some people will never cross this limit, some people cross this balance...and when that time comes I suggest you might invest in better equipment if you want to move on to explore new heights.

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