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Messages - Ekstasis

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Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 21, 2013, 07:02:18 AM »

As for other software plugins for processing audio......the one and only Sound Toys native bundle.  I recall Paul Vnuk saying on this forum that a good software reverb and the Sound Toys bundle of fx plugins you can come very close to the sound palette of an Eventide Eclipse.  As an Eclipse owner and Sound Toys user I would agree with this.

Regarding soundtoys, they are mostly good for adding color and saturation, but they are not true the source at all.
in fact you can use very little wet signal if you want to keep the source qualities and transient, one big

Phase Mistress can be good but remember it will completly destroy the source and transform to something different...
From there bundle I like Decapitator the most...

I have not tried Radiator yet unfortunately...

I would really like the Little MicroShift plugin..I think it can be useful to use on left and right channel with slighly different pitch.
I know robert rich have talked about the technique. but to use it you really need a really high quality pitch shifter...

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 20, 2013, 07:29:52 PM »
Hopefully some more people will jump in on this topic, with other recommendations too.

I will certainly look though my software tomorrow and see if I can suggest something in the reverb line. I think reverbs can be very personal, in the sense that they must, to your ears, fit your sound, and also operate in a way that makes intuitive sense.

It is not like there is an ocean of serious alterntives out there of software reverbs, for me it is important that they are transparent and true to the source and does represent the original audio and keep the audio details.  If you just want big lush dense walls with no audio details in them just a total "even" sound with no transients there is plenty of options.  A lot of people in ambient scene use "Aether" it is one of the worst reverbs I know. It sounds "big" but not detailed..

SSL X-verb is quite good too little bit more expensive but a lot cheaper then Lexicon PCM Native.
For ambient Ariesverb is still the most price worthy choice... it actually sound like a lexicon reverb for real..

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 20, 2013, 07:26:11 PM »
I had never heard of Toraverb before but seeing you mention Robert Rich's endorsement and the fact that it's a bargain at that price, I might buy that really soon. It seems like it would also probably be different enough from the ValhallaRoom.

The other ones seem like they would be awesome too but they're noticeably more expensive.

Why Robert Rich like it is because I think there is no similar reverb. It has an unique sound and I guess it does does complement his sony and lexcion reverbs

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 20, 2013, 06:12:04 PM »
Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm definitely going to take these recommendations into consideration.

I'll admit that I've probably been guilty of too much reverb (some of it probably too cheap in quality) in the past. I did buy ValhallaRoom recently and that's definitely a huge improvement over almost every plugin I have. I was blown away TBH. I'm definitely going to be more conscious of reverb when I record in the future.

for ambient I tend to use mostly halls..but for string instruments I guess valhallaroom can be good, I have only tried the valhalla shimmer..
it sounded quite big and lush..but unfortunately a lot of the source audio will become muddy and you will lose a lot of details is not a clean reverb..but works good for pads and stuff..

I recommend

The very sily saturation in RP verb is extremly beautiful... but it sounds more flat and less 3D then a expensive lexicon reverb..

Ariesverb the algoritms I think was supossed to be and hardware reverb box but it did never make it to the market...I do not remember the complete story, but after been using lexicon PCM native plugins for a long time I must say Aries verb comes most close.. it has a more Deep 3D sound...
good for very long reverb tails.. the GUI sucks..but for this style of often have the same preset all the time on the mix.

Toraverb is a good secondary reverb.. Robert Rich have talked highly about it. You are not able to create big 3D Lexicons halls with it, but you can create very detailed reverbs with unique saturation and character sounds very clean with almost a little bit "metallic" sound just very subtle though..

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 20, 2013, 05:54:41 PM »

I remember being surprised when I first got started making ambient music that most of the other people I knew had very nice gear -- expensive mixers, high-end Lexicon reverbs, good monitors, and that sort of thing. Now lots of people just buy an audio interface for their computer and use the default effects built into their DAW software, and that's it -- they don't pay for any effects, either outboard, or higher-quality plugins.

well, I am a part of the  younger more "forward thinking" generation,  about 10 years ago when all software plugs did look to have a promising future and also computer performance was getting better and better I did kind of look down at the old things, I wanted to replace as much as possible with software plugins,  I felt smart, and I thought other where "stupid"  why pay so much money when you can just have a cheap plugin that sounds the same... I think most younger ambient artist is still stuck in this kind of "mentality" that software is the cutting edge in audio and that everything sounds best and can be down "in the box" with software.  No need for expensive mixers or expensive analog outboard gear now when you can use high quality plugins.

As I said I did grow up under this software "revolution"  about 10 years later I realize not much has happen in the last 10 years when it comes to creating music with software, the development has slown down extremely.. only more of the same..   analoge still sound superior even so many years,  you only get close with plugins in that use between 50-80% on the latest intel cpus overclocked you get close the analgoue "essence" of the sound. 

Yeah so personally I have changed radically, I am going away more and more from software "in the right places". I still use soft synths for instance, it is ok if your other signal chain is high quality, for instance analgoue outboard gear can make even a digital soft synth glow to life.
I am not anti software but I do not compromise in sound quality. I realize its strength and weaknesses.  The weaknesses is 100% due to the lack of CPU power, almost all plugins compromise in audio quality in favor of less cpu usage, all this are hearable... CPU needs a lot of power to crate those complex and precise harmonics that analogue gear just kills the cpu... this is the reason I buy more and more external gear, to get more power cause the CPU can't do all processing on it's on... The lack processing power is one of the main reason why all ambient produced "in the box" sound so cheap..  however there is expectations of plugins that sound incredible with minimal cpu power, Lexicon PCM native is one of them, but I think one reason of that is because the algorithms have been refined for about 30 years the algorithms where made for a different time with a lot less processing power then what we have with the right miracle could is probably possible but extremely hard craft to program such things.. most virtual analogue stuff consume the cpu totally...the plugins I use that I think sound good, such as digital slate, SPL, SSL, D16,  etc they all have one thing in common..the use a lot of cpu..

I will still use both software and hardware...

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 20, 2013, 05:34:19 PM »
Also, I wasn't offended by Immersion's post at all, so it's no big deal.

That's good -- and I didn't think Immersion's comment was all that bad, but I hope we won't get started telling people their equipment choices are terrible. Also, if someone says they're thinking about upgrading from their entry-level audio interface, I don't know if $2500 devices are the best suggestion. That's so many steps above what you're using now, I think you'd be better served by a recommendation for something by Presonus or Focusrite or maybe M-Audio.

of course I do not want that have the discussion either it is not a competition, but he was saying he was not satisfied and that and the sound quality was not clean enough... I was just trying to explain possible factors...that is all..
A good reverb comes first I would say... To make it more clean sounding a good trick is to use tube saturation try wavearts tube saturator or something.. increase the treble a little bit you will feel the high end is opening up and becomes "cleaner" and takes away a lot of the "dust" in the reverb also..

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 20, 2013, 05:31:14 PM »
I'm in grad school so I don't have a lot of money.  :(

I'm definitely looking for something that's not going to run me broke.

Also, I wasn't offended by Immersion's post at all, so it's no big deal.

you have to beleive you do not need a big budet to great high quality ambient. But a good sounding reverb is the most critical part in this genre, if you do not have a good reverb everything will sound bad.  If you are on a budget and want a expensive lexicon sound the best is to buy an second hand PCM unit or to use some of the software reverbs..there are a few that sound very good for the price.

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 20, 2013, 05:28:46 PM »
I am just telling him the reality, he said the sound did not feel "clean" enough.
If you want clean and transparent sound it comes with a price. I wish there was a shortcut.

But there is goldcorns even with cheap gear if you are good at founding them so price does not automatically equal quality.
even if you have a smaller budget you can get quite high quality if you buy the right stuff...and do you research.

I was also interested to buy HEDD, but is a kind of old is based from what I understand on software code there is plugin versions
of the saturation stuff... but all I can say I would love to try it.. I am a big fan of summing boxes like that..which can bring that extra magic and luster to the sound..

My days are over when I did try to do "clever" buys, to save money, but what I have learned is that it is better to buy good stuff first,
otherwise you will never get really satisfied you will always have that itching feeling of unsatisfactory... also it makes your "job" mirror
you artistic expression.

One other aspect I have really got to enjoy starting to buy really expensive gear is that these gear does actually have a very good second hand value and in many cases the prices on the second hand market can stay very stable for a long time even they can increase in price if it the product becomes rare.

If you buy budget stuff, they have simply zero second hand value you can get a fraction of that price that's it.
Of course every one decide what is best for them, personally I prefer to think more long term and that life is too short to invest
in cheap gear, I want to live my life in full satisfaction so I do not compromise, of course I understand not all people are as fixated some people
might prioritize to buy a new car or travel.

But I personally find it highly paradoxical that in the ambient genre which is supposed to be "advanced" sound design most people use
a lot cheaper gear then normal studios... cheap effect cheap everything, most ambient artist have it with some kind of side activity they use a laptop and some software plugs but not a real studio.  All I am saying is I find it paradoxical why the bar is not set a lot higher in the genre.. if ambient genre is supposed to be some kind of cutting edge when it come to advanced sound design.  In most other recent produced music the production is very important nowdays often very polished I do not feel that way when I hear most new ambient unfortunately I just hear cheap reverbs with no transients at all left in the sound just 100% reverb

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 20, 2013, 04:47:08 PM »
well I would not expect much of the Lexicon Alpha, it is a very cheap interface with the price of like 5-6 pizzas.

I think when it comes to analog recording there is not much shortcuts.. every part of the signal chain is important. 

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 20, 2013, 04:37:04 PM »
Converters matters, in a typical studio setup you use atleast 2 converters, one for the input signals from your pre amp, and one for the output signal to the speakers.
Both are very critical, but if you do mostly stuff inside your computer I guess your monitor controller/converter is more important, cause this will represent the true audio which your computer send.

But it looks like you use kind of a lot of external instruments so yeah... a good converter would really make a big difference.
but a great pre amp is a ls also good, of course you set the bar yourself what you are ready to pay for the best sound quality.
Antelope audio Orion 32 is good converters too..same goes with Prism Titan/orpheus, you can get lynx aurora second hand for good price.

Burl do the best converters right now, I will buy them I am saving up money to buy them

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« on: November 19, 2013, 01:12:42 PM »
well, I understand people take it personal when expressing a disklike for a DAW, but it is like that, every one use different DAW and all think they are the best.. I tend to like reaper most,  the one reason I did want to try it first was the fact that was "free" I could not imagine any "serious" DAW would be free..but I was wrong.. I think a lot of people do not take it serious just because it is a free program to use.

My references regarding audio quality in ableton, I am sorry but I will not dig up many year old threads on forums.
But when I did use it it was a quite general complain that the audio quality was not the best.

in the version nine they say on their website that the rendering audio quality has been " dramatically improved" so I guess it was not good before.

it is good that is extremly stable...that is why I like reaper... I used sonar before it was NOT stable.
crashed often...

Cpu friendly...well that is relative... have you tried same project using reaper and ableton and compared ?

Well I have to admit there is some things I like in ableton.. it is easy to assign modulation on objects and plugins in general..
The X:Y pad stuff etc..the audio editor is quite flexible..
But in all honesty I can create music without these stuff in reaper... I control all I want with midi devices.
But I can admit the some of the stuff in GUI is very flexible in ableton.
But anyway I still feel more at home in reaper, it is easy and clean and fast and stable.

I want to try X3 just for fun I want to try to all the saturation stuff in the mixer..

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« on: November 19, 2013, 12:22:58 PM »
well it is quite widely known, atleast before but I guess I should take it back cause in all honesty I have not been keeping up with the last versions.
I used ableton live in 2009 I am not sure what version was out then, 7 ?
people in different forums did complan about the sound might be better now though..

Ok but  a lot of people use it only for session view I can promise you that..
Cause it was one of things that no other DAW had really...
now it looks like the X3 have something similar though. I am sorry If I am negative I am just not
a big fan of ableton anymore.  Why are you using ableton ? 

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: My Music Studio in Progress!!!
« on: November 19, 2013, 11:38:10 AM »

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« on: November 19, 2013, 11:37:22 AM »
I have not been using ableton live since 2009, I did move over to reaper.. which is use the cpu better and gives better sound quality.
the latest Sonar X3 seem to be very inspired form Ableton it have the session view...which is the only thing why people use ableton.
This is something I kind of miss in Reaper. But with a maxed cpu I must prioritize performance.

well you are right, making ambient with the mouse is not real ambient from heart, atleast it does not feel that way for me, I have no interest to morph in afterwards besides mixing but I want to morph the audio in real time. Otherwise it feels pointless for me.

If you do not use the session view, I would recommend trying Reaper.

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: My Music Studio in Progress!!!
« on: November 18, 2013, 08:19:37 AM »
my H8000FW did arrive today. It will take some time before I can actually use it though, I need to buy a pre amp and some more mogami cables before I can do so, this unit is even more expensive in EU then in USA, so I am completely broke now for some time.  This will maybe give me some time to study the manual,...from what I have been reading..there is some learning curve... but I guess it all depend on my pre-experience... I do not I aim to use the Firewall connection at all. I will use digital AES ports.

I wonder really, how many % of the forum members are artists themselves seem to be a forum for artists for sure :)

I have not been here since 2009 little bit  sad to see that it is a lot less activity here now..where did people go ?

Personally I have been listening to less ambient the last few years I must admit, there is a lot less good ambient released in my opinion.
And ever since Steve Roach did move to his new home and new studio I do not think he have produced any amazing stuff to be honest..
Same goes with Robert Rich he have not released much good last few years, but I must admit the Nest album was really good.

Anyway I hope more people come back it is a nice community for sure. quite unique. 

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Bandcamp
« on: November 18, 2013, 07:23:10 AM »
Immersion  Read the page  Everything is clear and understandable.  :)

Thanks for the information.

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Bandcamp
« on: November 17, 2013, 08:09:05 PM »
I hope something will happen...File sharing is better then spotify..cause atleast then the artitsts fans do not get fooled by paying money into the wrong is like fooling people and give them good conscience to "listen" to music. But as long is it is greedy companies like spotify then file sharing and bit torrents is preferred... I am not a high beliver in that model...I like bandcamp system better..
especially if you yourself can decide what price.. A lot of artits have no job..they just need money for rent and food..
for that even small contributions can make big difference but if spotify take 99.9% it is not possible to survive on music..

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Bandcamp
« on: November 17, 2013, 06:51:52 PM »
I love Bandcamp as an unsigned musician. It serves its purpose extremely well.

It's great for fans too because I know I've discovered plenty of great music there.

yes I like the conecept...

I much comission does bandcamp take ?
are they greedy ?

15% for digital sales. That's not too bad IMO.

surprisingly low. I did expect atleast 30%...
I wonder what spotify have, probably 99% or something (shared with the label combined)

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