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Messages - Ekstasis

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Music Gearheads Tech Talk / The Black Hole Reverb
« on: November 23, 2008, 06:23:47 AM »
I read about this reverb when reading about the most expensive Eventide Processor (why do they have to be so expensive!?!?). However I am interested to know how it sound and it's characteristics, must be ideal for multi-dimensional space ambient ???

Sounds great Jim, will try to get these cds somehow.
And really nice that Steve Roach did help with the mastering.

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Cyclic Law label
« on: November 20, 2008, 08:31:53 PM »
Longing for dawn is indeed one of the best Funeral/ambient doom bands around....

Cyclic law also have some quality releases such as Kammerheit and Northaunt

Have heard the entire album now... I must say I was really impressed buy the sounds of it...
It sounds somehow much more refined and darker then usual.

I can also confirm that the "cellphone sound" in the song Mercury are on the cd as well.
I guess someone did forget to turn of the telephone during the recording sessions :)

Ah ok, yeah, never a good idea to mix too many styles I think, better to hold a specific focus of "something".
However, you can have highly transcendental experiences which are highly dynamic long as their is a red line to follow and frame of mind...and does not go outside into to two totally unrelated worlds...

Well I really looking forward to hear this album, I still see potential in the album, but as said earlier, what really matters is how it all flow as an entity...

Everything and Nothing / Re: Asian Cinema
« on: November 19, 2008, 08:54:17 PM »

I have been enjoying many of your other projects you an Grassow have done together. This new Project Nuatic Depths sounds very interesting, a lot darker then the other projects you have done together which really does appeal to me.

The song "Mercury" sounds very emotional/sad, great atmosphere!

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Robert Henke
« on: November 13, 2008, 05:16:06 PM »
Feel free to talk about this great ambient/drone artist :)

Well...for us who likes him there is good news..a new album will be released within a few weeks...called "atom/document", read more about it here, looks really interesting...

Everything and Nothing / Re: Asian Cinema
« on: November 13, 2008, 03:39:25 PM »
I must admit..I am losing more and more interest in cinema..since it only gets worse and worse for each year that pass....

My favorite Asian director are "Ming-liang Tsai" he is by far the best...all of his movies are more or less good...very artistic and strange and dark humour, minimal dialog etc

I am mostly interested in slow and thoughtful films with visual quality... Andrei Tarkovsky is the master of this...

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Spectrasonics - Omnisphere
« on: November 13, 2008, 03:12:12 PM »
Yes, the fairly big update to Atmosphere.

Also not sure on the hype about it being a "glimpse of the future." (Native Instruments are MUCH better at that.) But yes, quality sound engine by the looks of it, plus many improvements over the rather limited Atmosphere engine, and of course a HUGE sample library. I suspect that, like Atmosphere, it will be a LOT of very big, complex presets that you will go "wow!" to, but never actually use unless you want quick "hold down one key" film-scores. And the price is also a tad high.

I was looking forward to it, looks very editable, but I'd wait to see if the price goes down and all the bugs get ironed out. There have been problems with the first generation.

You will, I think, get more bang for the buck with Native Instruments Komplete ... especially if you can find the reduced price on it.

This only a glimpse of the future...only the beginning...but maybe the new Alchemy synth by camel audio will be more "revolutionary" in that sense...then Ominsphere...

Yes I agree with you regarding Atmosphere, it is a joke, it's like they think we are stupid to make sound on your own, that is the main problem with the softsynths these days, they write the music for you! ..
The sound designers must have a very naive attitude towards us musicians or something..who cares about presets that sounds very cool solo but completely useless in practice...But I think people in genereal and software developers is slowly realizing this now..and focus more on the synthesis side instead... like for insance the "Alchemy" I did mention earlier..which seems very promising...

However after watching these Omnisphere it seems to be very different from Atmosphere in all regards, for do not need to use the sample library at can choose between sample mode and synth mode in the oscillator, so it is a quite powerful synth with out the sample library... despite of what it all might look the surface, I see many creative possibilities with this synth..

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: I am trying to imagine...
« on: November 13, 2008, 02:44:53 PM »
Xpander is not the flagship, Xpander is the "module" version of the Matrix 12, in other words, without a keyboard.

The Matrix 6 or 6R is fairly similar to the Matrix 12, but with fewer oscillators (6 instead of 12).  The Matrix 1000 has the same guts as the Matrix 6/6R but without any kind of front-panel programming interface -- it's mostly designed to be used with one of the 1,000 presets (hence the name) but if you go to the trouble of editing it via a computer interface, you can edit the Matrix 1000 patches just as well as you can edit the Matrix 6/6R patches.

Alright, so there is still the Matrix series that should be of most interest for me and my needs ?
So despite the difference in number of oscillators, they are the same soundwise ?
I am pretty sure 6 would be enough to begin with...otherwise there is ways around it...

I must say, I was kind of surprised when I saw you could program this synths through software, I really prefer to program it that way, always hate to read manuals etc, much easier to program on the computer.

I have actually found one guy in Sweden, who have a 6R for much do you think it is worth ?

And is there anything important I should be sure to ask ?
Like if he use all the original chips, or if he have changed to new unofficial chips..

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Spectrasonics - Omnisphere
« on: November 13, 2008, 02:37:30 PM »
I know many people and veterans on this forum is against softsynths...but I really think that this synth gives us a glimpse of the is really a huge step forward in the world of softsynths. It is not as revolutionary maybe as the advertising try to tell you, but it is definitely a very potent softsynth...

I have not had the opportunity to try this myself yet, but I have seen the 9 tutorial videos, so I am pretty sure what to expect.

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: I am trying to imagine...
« on: November 13, 2008, 02:30:37 PM »
If you're really anxious to try an Oberheim synth you could get a used Matrix 6R for not much money and get most of what you'd get with a Matrix 12 or an Xpander (which is basically a Matrix 12 without a keyboard)

Thanks, yes I could definitely need some guidance in the Oberheim Universe, I am really not sure what is the difference between them all..or for that matter the similarities... I assume the Xpander is their flagship ?
And how those the Matrix series compares with the "OB" series for instance..

Anyway...I have read some reviews on harmony gives me a quite good insight of what I can expect...
I have still not find it for sale somewhere...but how much money are we talking about ?

The only thing that worries me with the Matrix 6R is...

"All in all it is a risk to buy one of these now because it is very flakey and the chips it uses are very hard to find now"

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: I am trying to imagine...
« on: November 13, 2008, 02:20:05 PM »
Good discussion. And long list, too. ;)
I've started crafting soundscapes quite recently, so I feel your pain.
I didn't want to be second Roach, I was searching to find my sound. Still searching...
Mainly looking into myself and "feeling" the sound I like, I feel, I am missing in someone's music.
Listening to others' music was like searching for the sound matching your inner-sound.

I agree with others, I don't think you need all that equipment to create your own soundworld... Sure it can be an inspiration, but I'm sure you can get similar results with other gear not listed here. It's just a part of the chain, maybe even not the most important.
I think music is similar to cooking, the right ingredients and right amount of them can change the taste drastically.
And how you cook then later, so "reverb before or after mixing" question remains... ;)
I'm certain mixing is the key to have great sounding track, especially in ambient music.

I don't think you need Oberheim to create your music. Other brand would offer you similar results, just in a different way.
I guess it's a "habit" for Steve Roach to use it. He likes the sound, timbre, and and it's great modulations capabilities which is one of the key factor to obtain complex and evolving sounds. I assume he's been using it for many years so you can hear it on many tracks, one way or another.
Maybe the sound stays well in the mix, cuts through well.
It's like custom flutes in Robert Rich's music. Or like Klaus Schulze using JD-800 in the concerts, since it's easy to change sounds quickly using sliders, etc.
Speaking of them, they bring another example of what Loren and Mike and other were talking. Look at Rich's "Trances/Drones". Prophet-5, bamboo flute, lap steel guitar, some bells and WHAT an effect...
And pioneering Schulze and his Irrlicht, Cyborg. He didn't even have  full-blown synthesizer, just "mistreated" organ, VCS-3 synth (great for FXs), orchestra tapes and again, what an effect!
Or Tangerine Dream with early albums, like Zeit and Atem. Idea and execution. Or extensive improvising.
All those albums seem to be "simple" in tools, but so powerful in results...
You see, they didn't have all those fancy reverbs, and effects, but somehow the results are spectacular.

I guess once you have an idea for the great composition, you will find a way to record it.

Well, I don't want to sound like preaching, just some couple hundreds words of encouragement. ;)

P.S. Maybe field recording is your way? It gives infinite source of unusual sounds, specially great for inharmonic samples.
You would have 1000 synths just outside your house. Or inside it, for that matter... ;)

Good luck!

First of all, I own your CD "Submerged" from last year, I love it, really feels like you are getting sucked into a black hole when you listen to it in bed at night :)

I agree with most of what you say, and I is like cooking in a sense...but in the kitchen to make good food you also need certain ingredients, you can't make cheese pie without cheese for instance...same with musical equipment, you can't create something just from the void, you need some fundamental tools...

But despite what tools you use to create your music your own personal taste is what will color the music most of all..and I am sure..I do not need the exact same gear as Steve to produce similar sounds..but since I do not know where to seems logical to find out what Steve himself use to create such superior soundworlds..I must begin somewhere..

And yes you mention that in the old days the did manage to create spectacular music..well time change
You do no longer need big modular synths like Steve or Robert use anymore, but I give them respect for being able to use such complex synthesis, but luckily for me we live in easier times now :)

Regarding field recordings, yes I adore field recordings, both steve roach and robert rich use it alot..
All good ambient music I listen to use it more or I must look over this also..all I know is that outdoor microphones for field recordings like that are very expensive...
I will definitely invest in a microphone sometime in future.. but again everything cost money so this is going slow...
I wish I could just buy all I did need for my studio right away..but it will take years unfortunately..

Well to be honest, I have never been a big fan of live cds in ambient music. Studio recordings are often better, even though steve roach mostly record his music in real-time in studio...he can work many weeks with the same piece...and waiting for the perfect moment to an live situation you only have one chance...

However, I can understand why Steve, see no reason to release this, compared to his more refined studio recordings this does not keep up the standards in my opinion. Also I am sure it would be something completely different in the recording moment in the audio/visual experience in the concert, something that you do not get by just listening to the CD.

By the way, there is some video clips on youtube from the concert, if someone is interested.

For clarification, Steve asked me to post this message regarding this CDR:

“This was a montage of the concert made for the people who attended the 12 hour Immersion concert in 2007. It was part of their “package” for the event.  A small number of copies were left and a few customers who have placed large orders were given one. These are no plans to release this and those who received a copy were requested to keep it special and not make copies. There is a chance it might be posted on iTunes next year."

So those of you who have this recording in your possession can claim a nice little package of sonic booty. :)

Interesting, I hope he will make the full 12 hour concert available, would be a nice experience.

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: I am trying to imagine...
« on: November 12, 2008, 04:14:23 PM »
Alright have read the articles now, brings some really interesting information

Alright adds these to my wish list :)

Oberheim - Xpander
Oberheim - Matrix
Lexicon - PCM-91
Lexicon - PCM-70
Eventide 4000
Eventide 3000
Korg Kaoss Pad
(did I miss something ?)

Steve Roach gray matter transfer?  :P ;D

Actually what you are missing is the point. You don't need to copy Steve's gear list, you need a better understanding of how he does what he does. A lot of people make this mistake with other artists that use technology, they think the technology is the key, but once they get the tools they are lost. The real answer is in how one uses these tools.

Yeah I realize that tools is tools, the tools does not create the music for you, even though the tools reflects  what the artist create with the tools.

I have never used an analogue synth, so I have really no idea how an Oberheim compares with other similar synths, of maybe a fraction of the price. If I had the money I would just buy one instantly, to try it own and test it can get it for under $2500 used here in Sweden, that is a lot of money, but it might be worth it of course..

I agree, of course, just because that I have the exact Steve Roach gear it does not mean I will sound exactly like him. But I see nothing wrong to take inspiration from him and the tools and the way he create music...
But I do not expect the tools to write the music for me...and more over...Roach's music is one of the most there is a lot to learn.. if you really want the full understanding of how the soundworlds are created.
And from what I know only a few artist like Amir Baghiri and Robert Rich come close to the same type of supreme sound quality.

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: I am trying to imagine...
« on: November 12, 2008, 01:29:06 PM »
Alright have read the articles now, brings some really interesting information

Alright adds these to my wish list :)

Oberheim - Xpander
Oberheim - Matrix
Lexicon - PCM-91
Lexicon - PCM-70
Eventide 4000
Eventide 3000
Korg Kaoss Pad
(did I miss something ?)

I guess the Oberheim's are very hard to get, and expensive, but he has described them as the "core" in his sound,  Is there any cheaper alternatives that will give very similar results ?

About the effect processors, I am not sure I for instance need two of these super expensive Lexicon processors, as I understand it, PCM-91 is the newer version, but maybe they both do complement each other I am not sure...

And Regarding the Eventide I am not sure, of course If I want to be sure to get close I should just buy the exact same equipment, but I of course want to investigate further if something better is available right now...and if it is really necessary achieve this sound..

Also, Eventide and Leixcon processor are all very all seriousness..this would take me many years to afford all this.. also really wonder if the plugin versions even can compare..

Currently I am using "Halls of fame" , which is 32bit impulse reverbs from the legendary L96 and T600C units...
I consider these reverbs very good..especially for its price..but I need to investigate more how they compare with the hardware units.

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