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Messages - Ekstasis

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No, ASIO is just a Windows thing to overcome problems in the built-in Windows audio handling components. ASIO fixes a problem in Windows that doesn't exist in Mac OSX.

It's OK if you hate Mac OS and don't want to use it. Some Mac users treat it like a religion, and want to convince Windows and Linux people that they're WRONG WRONG WRONG. I'm not like that. I think people should use the tools that work for them, and help them accomplish the work (or play) that they want to accomplish.

Ten years ago, 97% of people used Windows for everything. Many people hated it, but felt stuck. Now there are many options. You can use Windows, Linux, Mac OS, Droid, iOS. This is much better -- nobody's stuck any more.

Apple has still a very small market share.. most people use is the biggest platform still..
The world would be a better place if Linux was the leading platform.
If all programs I use was available for Linux I would probably move over to it.
With that said I did try a couple of Linux distros this summer. elemtary,ubuntu, mint I was still chocked
how hard Linux was too use still in the year 2013 even for the most simple things such as installing a program you need to google.
Of course this is good from a security stand point that is the whole Idea I get should be hard to install an install package..

With that said though Linux would not be what it is today if for instance all windows programs would had been able to run on all Linux without and emulation software cause linux would have much bigger user base...  I still like the Philosophy of Linux best, and the freedom and modular design but still for a computer "nerd "like me I think linux was hard to figure out, unless you are just happy with install firefox or something you need quite a lot of computer skills and knowledge still in year 2013.

Anyway it would be interesting to see how many studios that would run Linux if all software was available on Linux... Would be cool with a special distro just for audio production.

while it is very healthy to know the basic building blocks and how the affect the audio I think you might overthink things, Some years ago, I did also try to approach it more from a scientific perspective, while it was a good learning experience learning the basic building blocks what it comes back to when creating actual music  is more about just following your instinct close your eyes, use these knobs learn how they all form and change the sound.  When you are making music in real time I do not think you are thinking about scientific formulas you just let your inner cosmic hand control you.

But I think it is good still to be able to program your synth etc but morphing the drone in real time is more of an artistic expression  and modulate the various building blockings on the synth.

the oscillators will of course be an important building block in the sound, it is well known analoge  oscillators have more richness and harmonics in the tone,  because replciating such advanced harmonics digitally it require a lot of very complex algorithms and cpu power..there is often a difference.. but with that said there is always exceptions there is plenty of good VAs out there..
Waldorf is of them.  Detuning and pitch shifting can also be an very important element in a drone.  the Detuning you can do on the OSC level but also in effects as pitch shifting, typically pitch shifting that sounds good is very expensive and from my knowledge Eventide is synonymous with the word "pitch shifting". LFOs is important  PWM can be important on som synths too.  playing with the LFOs can have great impact.  When creating Drone music you should set your BPM rate quite slow.. it will make LFOs the whole synth really sound more slow and more "evolving" which fits drone music very well.

An other Drone Master called steve roach he is know of using his mixer board to create his drones , where the EQ is an very important element in general tone shaping, but also the way he merge simultaneously drones in the mixer , from what I understand he have simultaneous drones running in the mixer which he merge in endless combination chaining volume and eq in real time.. it is his "main" instrument"  for many people including myself a lot of his processes are to me little bit of mystery at this point... I would love to see how make his music from would be easier to understand if I heard it without the reverb for sure..

A lot of other people use guitar to create drones too..stringed instrument  such as electric guitar is really perfect for creating drones..
cause a vibrating string have a lot of interesting harmonics to work with just like a really good analogue synth have

I might sound radical here, but what creates a "drone" in my world is the use of long time reverb and delays.
For me that is the basic building block in a drone without it there is no drone unless you some very sustaining sound or instrument. Do not overuse the reverb, listen to the music change the wet and dry signal find the sweetspot where all the transients and details are not drown in the reverb. Most ambient artists put the reverb on max, it just create a big reverb "cloud" for me this kills the whole essence of sound, to just hear reverb clouds for me is not that interesting.

With all this said I am welcoming all other people to think different we all approach things differently.  I would in fact also love to hear how other people approach this..

Its a private legal matter.  Why is it anyone's business especially if there's some apparent wrongdoing?  Yeah I'm disappointed but I'm not crying about it.  And I support Mathias 100% in his future musical endeavors!

Btw, I'm just stating my opinion, not looking to argue.  :)

I agree, in this sound style... the tolerance is higher then for other music for sure I have not heard the A/B comparison myself. I agree it is a private matter and it is maybe not in a label owners interest to try to choke grassows carrier by naming exact songs etc it is not really something that will benifit grassow for sure.

. I respect that Grassow do music for himself, as long as it is not any billboards who really cares... A lot of music i sample based and are using sampling all the time, hip hop for instance, the genre would not exist if it wasn't for sampling or stealing,   but as long as you do something artistic with it,  or put it in a new context I think it is creative..
Also I think it depends on what is being sampled, a melody  for instance... but even with that you should not have alone rights on a melody just because some one was first, if some mind can come up with a melody I am sure another mind can come up with the same with time,   Also a samples used but put in a different context or music style I think is a way of using it artistically..
I just do not think all this commercial bullshit should interfere with the artistic output, let the music be free,

but there should be limits also..the line can be thin in this grey zone.

No problem - I know many Windows users assume the same thing "ASIO means better sound" is true on Mac too. This is one of the things I like about the Mac, though I realize you can still get very good results and do professional work on a Windows computer, with some extra setup or configuration.

This is why it's just simpler for me to use iTunes for everything. It's so easy to stick a CD in the drive and rip it to my preferred format, and maybe drag files to a new playlist. Even though I have a huge library, it's surprising how often I find items I want to listen to, which I have on CD but not in my iTunes library. Just yesterday I ripped several Kraftwerk CDs and Wolfgang Press's Bird Wood Cage.

Alright good, you mean people use ASIO on mac too for ultimate sound quality ?

I did try my sisters Imac like two years ago, it was hard to not throw up I did really hate simply everything about the OS, the web browser. I think the screen was really good, the original mac mouse that come with the Imac was a big joke compared to my Logitech mouse is way more ergonomic and fast too.   I have hard to see myself move over to a mac in the last 10 years unless there is some radical change in philosophy and design. I admit the IMAC looked quite good on the desk, and all..but at the same time I felt like was in a prison when using the computer.  Yeah same thing with any apple product I feel like I am in a prison, as long as I get that feeling apple is nothing for me.

Microsoft should had paid attention to more professional users,  even though they are a very small group of people compared to the other user base..anyway I think windows is going in the right direction...right now..also the develop phase is faster now..  and windows 8.2 will get the start menu back.

Even on Mac I think the difference in audio quality with asio is still quite big though.. the soun quality on windows 8 is really good, but asio is more professional audio protocol I would recommend to use it at all times when possible.

Personally I would not imagine to listen to music in non asio drivers especially not if oyu use an expensive interface/converter that does not make sense at all. the Asio drivers will open up the full potential.

ASIO is a third-party work-around to bypass the poor-quality (particularly with regard to latency, but also sound quality) audio processing components available in Windows by default. It seems everyone agrees ASIO is necessary to get the best audio performance and quality out of your Windows computer.

Mac OSX uses Core Audio, which is built into the OSX operating system. Professional audio engineers around the world are satisfied with the quality and performance of Core Audio. Any recording, mixing or mastering studio that uses Mac computers is using Core Audio components.

The idea that ASIO is better on Windows default audio setup, therefore ASIO must be better than Mac OS default audio setup, is simply not true. At best, ASIO allows a Windows computer to function at a level equivalent to what Mac OSX Core Audio can do by default. To get the best audio performance out of a Mac, it's not necessary (or recommended) to change Core Audio.

Thanks for the information Mike. For natural reasons cause I am a windows user my whole life my knowledge about the macs are quite limited.  My knowledge about core audio is not the best I admit,  but in your DAW are most MAC users using asio or core audio for high quality gear ?

Anyway the new WASAPI in windows 8 is supposed to have massive improvements I have no idea how it compares with the core audio though...would be interesting to see. But my time to read up on all I want to know is not endless... .anyway I think it is something in the right direction.. Why they have not payed more attention to it before is quite a mystery... maybe they suppose every one is using ASIO there is no real must be the reason..

But I do not know it might be some kind of advantage if you do the audio directly from windows without a third party driver like ASIO...
I am not a programmer, (even though I have programmed som C++ and java and visual basic mostly compiling already written code).

Now Playing / Re: Currently listening, part 1
« on: January 02, 2014, 02:54:54 PM »

I guess that's one benefit I find with the Mac, which is that you don't need to worry about things like DirectX drivers (if that's even a real thing any more), ASIO, and so on. The only problem I ever run into is manufacturers failing to update their drivers to compatibility with the latest OSX, for example I've had instances of hard crashing with the old drivers for my Presonus Firestudio on my new iMac. When I disconnect the device and uninstall the drivers, no more freeze-ups. It's apparently a widespread issue with drivers for all Presonus firewire interfaces on OSX 10.9 or Mavericks.

It isn't too inconvenient for me at the moment because my old Mac Pro is sitting at the next desk over, so I just connect the Firestudio to that, and use a different USB audio interface for getting audio out of the iMac.

Even on Mac I think the difference in audio quality with asio is still quite big though.. the soun quality on windows 8 is really good, but asio is more professional audio protocol I would recommend to use it at all times when possible.

Personally I would not imagine to listen to music in non asio drivers especially not if oyu use an expensive interface/converter that does not make sense at all. the Asio drivers will open up the full potential.

I think the sound quality of iTunes for playback is very good, but I'm using it to play back 320k MP3 files, so I'm not being as fussy as some people about absolute perfection here.

I understand some people who don't like to have their music in a library format, but it's the only way to have playlists, and I find playlists very convenient. I have iTunes managing a very large library, and it's not slow at all. Of course, the library is so large that it's not extremely convenient to scroll through the complete track listing. I mostly select playlists, or search for artists or albums.

I have pretty much never used a mackingtosh I must admit..  But I think the "direct sound" or whatever the apple sound is called is better on mac.  It wasnt until windows 8 the direct sound did get good in windows... for non-asio audio.
Still asio deliver superior audio quality though

Tomas, just playing Devil's advocate here, but you did choose to share this information on the forum.  People are now not allowed to discuss it?  Personally I wish you would've kept the details off the forum as it seems a private matter, and to be honest it's not what Mathias' fans want to hear.  Or you could've just said "for legal reasons" instead of the sordid details.  I really didnt think it belonged on the forum at all.

It could maybe have been the best thing to do..I Feel sorry for Matthias.. but as I said I think Matthias do music mostly for him self for his own private moments, maybe he mix in some samples etc..  regarding the klaus wise perfume track maybe it was a mix up or something... I can imagine grassow has a very big library of drones.. which sound in many cases identical to klaus Wiese..

I have never liked to use a library.  I have always prefered to right click on the folder of an album an play it.

To load my whole music library would very big.. and would use a lot of memory for sure

Foobar is kind of a nifty stand-alone player, but I use iTunes because I have a huge library with many playlists, and it's very convenient to be able to play it from any computer (Mac or PC or iPad or iPod or iPhone) in the house.

People complain about iTunes messing up their library, but if you keep your library consolidated and don't do anything bizarre with metadata, it works perfectly well. I leave iTunes running on my studio Mac Pro 24/7, and play tracks & playlists from it from all over the place.

How is the sound quality in itunes.... ?

Never use iTunes.
I use Winamp on one, and AIMP on another.
Both good.

Winamp cool.. I used that before I did start use xmplay...
Xmplay can also loud winamp plugins..

I think the most important part of a media player is asio support, the difference in audio quality can be really dramatic especially on windows.

BUT, some years ago even Spectrasonics asked for credits if you use some of their libraries for an official release!


What a big joke haha... One more reason to stay away from Spectrasonics crap That is such greedyness..
Do not include the samples if you are not allowed to use them in music..that is my opinion.. However most people process and mix etc so it is impossible to detected the source samples...  I think  in the "Lost" tv series  the big boom sound with the logo was spectrasonics I am sure they must have made a fortune of that pathetic sample haha.

EDIT: this was the one

I have since 2005 been using a player called Xmplay. While it is main advantage is it has ASIO suppport.

I wonder what media players do people use ?
I guess a lot of people use Itunes.

Now Playing / Re: Currently listening, part 1
« on: January 02, 2014, 06:16:46 AM »

Finally on "Calibration", an entire track was taken from the previously released album "Perfume" by Klaus Wiese.

Oh geez.  That's really disappointing to read.  :(

This is very disappointing to hear.  I like what I've heard of his more recent releases.  I remember that on an early album ("In Search of Sanity," I think) he used an extended sample from one of Steve Roach's early 90s albums without getting clearance first.


Yeah I agree one full track is just unbelievable.. I thought Klaus and him was close friends...

Transpersonal is among my top favorute albums by Mattias Grassow.

Very surprised news indeed but I guess in this type of music which can be quite sample oriented it is maybe more common....  I would of course like to hear the samples side to side and compare, I would imagine that he have also put a lot of reverb on them, I am not sure how much he have mangled the sounds "artistic" to create something new or if it is almost untouched.  If it is untouched well that is not good, but I personally would really care what type of sounds is sampled ?  is it looped or modified in any way artistically.. I think the line can be quite thin sometimes.. but there is limits I think, you should atleast transform it some how, if you mix it with other sounds then the sampled you used it will sounds like something completely different.

Anyway it is surprising that you will cut the collaboration with him , despite this I still think Grassow is the king in what he is doing,  I think his albums is created in a quite spontaneous way during meditation .. I guess he does the music for himself in first hand.

Surpising to hear he have sampled stuff from Drudkh which happen to be one of my favorite bands.

Well after hearing all this,  I am not lying but in some of grassow releases I think I heard one of my older ambient tracks in there..
I always thought it was just  imagination but now I have no idea anymore,  I have only sent it to a few album; jesse was one of them I am not sure if he did pass it through to more people it was from my track called "ambient 16"

EDIT: I sent it to your PM box now.

Everything and Nothing / Re: Help me find good cider
« on: January 01, 2014, 07:55:14 AM »
I did read about the kopparberg cider on, and among the "experts" it do not seem to get much good reviews.. so I think it will not be worth the effort, I have not tried many ciders and no "fine" ciders" only masts produced ciders, I am no expert.
I just like it, but I think it must due that it is ice cold in the summer. And as we know everything taste better ice cold... I am not sure how you drink yours..maybe not cold

Everything and Nothing / Re: Help me find good cider
« on: December 31, 2013, 06:56:15 PM »
that some really dark cider, I didn't know it could be that dark even...

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