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Messages - Ekstasis

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741
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 30, 2013, 06:27:43 PM »
I never said the Sound Toys was BETTER than the H8000FW. In fact I believe I said that the H8000FW is perhaps the best multi-fx processor on the market today. Its freaking incredible! What I did say was it is a cost that I could not justify. For the way that I work I can do everything I was doing with the H8000FW with the Sound Toys Plug-ins. I don't care if they sound exact because functionally as sound manglers and sweeteners they do everything I need them to do. I also feel the same way with the PSP plug-ins and more.

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Well it feels good to hear you say that atleast, If you know any better effect processor let me know..from what I know there is no box that comes close.  Yes I understand it all depends on how you use it...some people like yourself if obviously fine with soundtoys. Personally I prefer something is more true the source

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Next thing you don't seam to get. To state that all 2 way monitors are horrible shows your complete lack of knowledge on the subject. Some 3-ways are awesome. I HAVE heard the Tridents, they sound great, Harvey knows his stuff!!! He actually did a great and ingenious job of creating a 3-way that works awesome in a near field space.
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I have not said that all 2-ways speakers are "horrible" in fact there exist a lot of amazing 2-ways speakers especially considering that this is the most usual kind in the studio. No matter if you like it or not there is still a distinct class difference between 2-way and 3-way design speaker. I also said it is harder to do a good 3 way speaker that is why there is also a lot of less good construction of 3 way design, those with good construction and good science behind them is however superior in most areas.  Speaker manufacture have an enormous pressure from the market to improve monitor design, and 3 way design is without doubt the future, and it will be more common, right now they exist mostly in the high end market which often is very expensive.  The Trident HG3s have a very good value since it compares with monitors with twice of the price in it's performance.

However there are also great, not good, not passible but freaking amazing 2-ways as well. Interesting how the dozens of studios I have been in across the country over the years almost ALL seam to use and own a good set of 2-way 8" monitors be it Genelec, KRK, Focal, Dynaudio, Yamaha, Adam and more. Oh wait you don't like experience and usage as proof.

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There is probably the same amount of studios that prefer 3-way speakers.
There is also a lot of studios who use really old equipment and spekers...
But if you buy a new studio with an unlimited budget in year 2013 I see no reason why to choose the 2 way design. But one need not exclude the other, to have both 2way and 3 way speakers in the setup can be good...myself will have more speakers in the future, it is good to be able to switch between them.  A pair of genelecs would be nice, mostly cause they are in almost every studio now.

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I was simply stating that to truly utilize the clarity and power of many sets of full size  3-ways or even large 2-ways for that matter, you need a good room that is big enough to get a nice distance from your monitors. To tell someone who mixes in an average bedroom, den or small basement space to go get large $3,000 to $5000 monitors is, in my line of work, misleading and irresponsible.

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Well we are speaking about the speakers, now lets leave the room out of the equation.  And you said it your self the Tridents is obviously working in a nearfield space and they are not the only ones I can assure you, I think actually the room size have nothing to do with this when compare 2 way and 3 way, it is all about that 3 way gives superior clarity, and especially when each element is driven with its own amp, that is the ultimate, this has nothing to do with the room size just pure sound quality. I think it quite logical. 3 way design is without doubt an up going trend and it will be more common in future, and I think also that a lot of manufactures will be inspired by the HG3 speaker design 

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Did you know that most really good engineers can mix on anything and trillions of great sounding albums have been mixed on Yamaha NS-10's as a reference.

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I know they can with help of audio analytical tools then can. Yes NS-10 have mostly mid range audio, this is the reason why it is easy to mix with them, cause there is not much else in the sound that will disturb you. I have heard the NS-10 myself and it as one of the worst speakers I have heard. I do not agree about the idea to have these crap monitors in every studio.  Yeah I know they say that if it sounds good on them it sounds good on all speakers, but at the same time I just think it is a myth that lives on and on... and people is just following the leader in a feedback loop. There is obviously better speaker for that. I will not be one of those who buy any NS-10, I will not continue this stupidity, people use it just because other people and studios use it, as simple as that, people just mimics each other.
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In our genre I know of many great sounding albums which have been mixed using the old Mackie speakers (the model escapes me) which I find harsh and fatiguing personally. But if a person can mix on them and get the finished product that they have is all that matters in the end. Of course that will be interpreted as me telling folks that good results can be had on cheap gear again.
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You can mix on anything, but Makies have atleast some what flat frequency response that is the most important part, I am sure one can mix in them without problems. But they might expect they will sound different on other speakers..it is always like that no speakers sounds the same unfortunately. There is no ultimate studio reference monitor...there is too much other factors which will affect the sound... the only absolute reference of any music is to use the exact same equipment and room and speaker placement as it was recorded on.

BTW if you do not have tons of cash it can be good to cross mix with headphones as well.  If you wand a flat frequency response headphones is the chepeast way to get it... it is good to mix mid and high rage harder with bass. But it s good to mix in both should sound good on both.

 

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The thing is, while I have alluded to it, it is true to a point. People can get great and professional (whatever that really means) results on less expensive gear. There are countless big label releases that have been recorded and mixed without 3-ways, Eventides and such.

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absolutely...  But it is good to come as close to the "reference point" in audio when recording..  With the right cheap gear you can..especially second hand stuff..the price is not equal quality.. there is a lot of exceptions everywhere
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Its also true that high end gear can give amazing results and make getting them easier than cheap stuff can. Wisdom lies in knowing which is best for you. My point is why would you go and buy a Ferrari when you are just learning to drive??? Other than because you can I guess.
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I do not think the Ferrari analogy is really working in this context.
Well it depends on how new you are.  IF you know the basic principles of the cheaper gear..I see no reason why not invest and jump into the high end terriroty directely.. IF you have high demands for high audio quality..it all depends on how much this matter to you personally..we all are different..some one is happy with less..some one is happy with more..

Personally my own philosophy is, that it is stupid and a waste of money and time to by cheap gear,  I have realized this cause I have my apartment full of useless cheap gear that is not even worth selling, they have no second hand value.
It is simply junk.  I have decide now, I will skip the mid range and by the high range directly instead I think in a long term perspective it is smart for every musician to that that investment, if you have a high desire for audio quality. It is better to invest it and you are happy...  And I do not need to stress the importance that high end gear does keep MOST of it's value you can SELL it when you realize you do not need it or you want something even better. The best thing is to buy all second hand then you can almost be sure that you get back all money you invest when you sell it, ( if you buy the right products that age well).

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Now having said that, I do agree with you that it is just as much of a trap to fall prey to the cult of good enough. Buying every cheap piece of crap that comes along with an arrogant attitude of "this is just as good as the pro stuff" can also yield disastrous results, but in this thread no one has said that.
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Yes..it can be a trap... and gives you an "illusion" that the sound as as good as it gets..but when you have an opportunity to try new gear it might open ups totally new worlds you...I think it is healthy to constantly monitor the market and see what it has to offer to get an idea what you are missing out on..

I think since the 2000s I think we have this idea that because of all the development audio quality will become cheaper and cheaper all the time..
We saw the mostly the 3-4 first years in the 2000s..cause everything was going towards software and in the box... I think now.. we have come to realize that good audio quality comes with a price still.. maybe in 20 years you do not have to pay anything for the best sound quality today I hope so..

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However if someone like the original poster comes in with, "this is what I have, this is my budget, please help!" and you essentially imply, "what you have is crap, spend crazy $$$ like I am or you CAN'T make good music". Well someone needs to balance that with a reality check of, "do the best you can with what you have, despite the cost and save up for better stuff one step at a time".
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Well he him self said the sound quality was not good.. I told him the bitter truth...audio quality is not for free.... you have too first decide your budget of investment then with that you can decide what to buy... if you have a small budget you need to spend your money very wisely.. a lot of people just buy from what "brand" they think is best... it is wrong.. a lot of the bang of the buck stuff you get from the smaller underground companies that are not so well known but that you have to dig deep to find...there is certainly a lot of good stuff out there..

However I still think you should take things into the perspective, if you are seeing yourself as a long term musician, I would advices to seriously not waste money on budget stuff too much, and most important of all buy no new products since it will lose it's value, if you can sell your budget gear you will reach your goal to upgrade to more high end gear faster...

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If a person can only afford $200 - $300 and asks my opinion of what is the best microphone for $200 -  $300 I owe it to them to point out what is the best value in the price range they have mentioned. Its even ok to point out $400-$600 microphones that may be better if they are patient and wait a few more months. But, if I come at them with the usual gearslutz attitude of..."if you don't drop $2-5k on a mic then you can't make good music"...that would make me a jerk of the highest order.
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I think with microphones there is so much good stuff from china..the problems with there can be a high varance between each micrphone in the same series..because of the the quality testing is flawed.. you can get a very good ex or a bad ex...you never know..it is a risk you take..but it can be worth it..Also the microphone market is very big, both new and second hand market.  There is alot more to choose from compare to a lot other equipment in the studio so yeah you can without doubt get a good micrphone for 200-300$
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I mean dude...can I call you dude?
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Yes Please
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I cannot find any fault with your gear list. Eventide, Dangerous, Burl, Trident all make killer stuff! Great gear of the highest order. Any studio with that kind of gear should have no excuses for poor recording quality.
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I do not actually have any BURL equipment yet..I have considering to keep my Lynx Aurora for maybe 1 year.. or so..  However I still have no pre amp, you know this is the first part in the studio so without this the signal flow is not complete.  Without this I cannot not create music . As I said earlier I think of buying this one...


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The problem here is, as others have tried to tell you again, and again, and again...you present these items as the holy grails of gear, nothing can be better. Nothing...NOTHING!!! You also present it as a fact that everyone in the universe has accepted as a sonic purity law!
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You and I both now that in this business is everything strictly subjective.  Everyone has it's own idea what is the holy grail of gear.  It is true I have said that Burl does the best stuff right now, that is maybe true to some and not others but I know for sure in the studio world there is a lot of fuzz about Burl now, and is in this particular circle regarding as one of the top equipment... those in the circle claims it offers superior sonic quality unlike any other equipment they have heard...This might be true to you are not..me myself I am not sure yet since I do not own any BURL gear yet... but I know after all I have been reading about BURL stuff that I know burl stuff is good invested money... which really makes a difference. If I had a complet Burl system and a pair of  RL 901K monitors maybe perhaps then I could say I have the holy grail of equipment :)
But these speaker are way beyond my price range...



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Sorry to tell you that there are other great monitor choices than the HG-3 and other great compressors than the Bax and so on...the one unit you have that even in my opinion cannot be bested and has no true competition in its world is the H8000FW. Still does not mean everyone needs one, and you are not some kind of artistic genius cuz you own one.
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I do not consider my HG3 monitors the best monitors in the world. However in it's price range I find it among the best if not the best.  That is the exact reason I bought it, it has an extreme good an aggressive price setting.  They are still expensive but for the money you buy you get monitors which is compared to monitors in twice of the price... Yes that is why I bought the Eventide, now I know
in the effect department I can't get anything better really...so  I will be satisfied for a very long time with this one.... it will probably suck when the H9000 is released... and blow it out of the water but hopefully it is long into the future..

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If you started a post like "hey I just got an H8000 and its blowing my mind!" I would guess folks here would respond with, "really? Wow, thats cool, what do you like it on? How are you using it?" and so on and so on. Its a much better presentation than what you have been doing.
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Maybe such thread will come, I need to buy my pre amp first as I said... sO I connect my Kemper amp to it..Problem is I have not tried it out much yet.  But if some one is interested to hear how it sound I will gladly give you some recordings later. I know a lot of people are interested in other forums atleast. There is really not much "samples" from this cause I guess not many people have it.. there is one long video on youtube...but it have such bad source audio some techno stuff..


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Lastly, really I do think its cool and encouraging to see someone pursuing music and engineering with this kind of passion who is willing to go all the way and get some of the best gear out there to accomplish sonic goals which it seams you are setting for yourself! Bravo!
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Thank you for your support. I am also glad, I have become to realize that life is about to realize your own dreams, this is my dream to build a studio..and record..
It is one of the few things that drives me in life...so I have no idea what I would spend the money on otherwise..I cannot come up with anything better atleast..And I say it again, it feels more safe to know since I have bought mostly high end equipment that the market value still exist when I decide to sell..
so it does not feel like I have just put money in to the ocean... but if I really need I can also sell it.

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I know you refuted this before, but its actually what I did when I started out. I drew a line in the sand, decided on the quality and level of seriousness I was after, and then set goals both financially and educationally to make these dreams reality. 12 years ago I saved up for two years so I could afford my 8-channel Millennia Media HV3D Preamp. I still have it today and use it all the time.
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I decided this about 4 years ago... I was thinking it would take first 2 years, then 3 years then 4 years, it was always delayed cause it was hard to keep the budget, I also bought a guitar which was a lot more expensive then I did expect,
it did cost more then the H8000FW and rember the the H8000FW is a lot more expensive in EUROPE because of import taxes etc...

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So seriously, enjoy your gear. Enjoy and be challenged in your pursuit of music, but stop coming across as Mr. Know-it-all!

Thanks "dude"  I enjoy this discussion...there does not always have to be agreements... we all have different perspectives on everything it is human nature...

Regarding MR know it all...welcome to the humanity unfortunately if this is something that bugs you I do not think you like the humanity very much, cause I see this all the time...it is a kind of human instinct one of the most primitive animal instincts humans need to assert itself in the "group" to show how is the dominant in a particular group, every one in the group need to show who is the dominant and ultimately who is the leader in a particular group, it as a deeply embedded in the human nature which helps our survival as species.

742
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: KVR Black friday/cyber monday sales list
« on: November 30, 2013, 04:59:59 PM »
Thanks APK. Judging from the demos, Lush-101 has a great analog sound. When I look around for reviews there's always mention about the large CPU needs. Probably great for the studio but (like Iris) touchy for multi-synth live use. Still tempting...

Some people will probably think I am craazy, but Lush-101 was probably one of the main reasons I sold my Oberheim Xpander.
The filters are awesome... the only problem is... it use a lot of cpu...
you really need to have the LATEST intel cpu for it...
I have the first Core i7 generation (920) overclocked from 2.6GHZ to 3.5 GHZ
still not enough. Even some presets in low quality mode is too much

743
I have heard the cd now, I was not a big fan of it...it is more of an ambient jazz record.  The Milky way was the best song on the album.
But I have to say the production and sound is probably his best.

744
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: My Music Studio in Progress!!!
« on: November 29, 2013, 12:15:22 AM »

745
I'm usually not the biggest Oophoi fan but I already love some of his posthumous work, particularly this and I Can Hear The Wing Singing. I think both of those are AOTY candidates.

Oophoi's music is hard to get into.

If I would recommend you two albums it would be Forgotten Rituals and  Signals From the Great Beyond (1cd version)

746
Art and Literature, Movies and TV / Re: what Tv series should I see ?
« on: November 28, 2013, 12:55:53 PM »
The Shield
Justified
Leverage

They are among my all time favorites...all are on blu-ray and DVD. All have great great characters, great performances, and are exceedingly well-written, esp. IMO, Justified.

My girlfriend did recommend me The Shield..also...
Also she did recommend the River, but I guess it will take some time before it is realeased on Bluray.

I am sorry I did not buy a high end Panasonic Plasma TV to watch some tv rips.
And I know there is many older series out there that I can see before that..It does not need to be the latest..

Anyway I am rewatching the Stargate Universe right now...
Very good serious, season to is not released on bluray I find that a big mystery, I also find it a big mystery that there was no season 3, but I guess, a lot of people is like me they do not want to watch it on tv they want until the whole series is aired so they can watch it when they want etc and not have to wait... and the tv channel will see that not many people watch it, but I think torrents really show what tv series are popular... I guess netflix could be included too.

But it seem really that all tv series that are good they put down..
Such as  Caprica, what happen to that,  and what happen to Terra Nova season 2 it was a good series that did die to quickly.

Regarding stargate Universe, if the producers did put up a kickstarter project for new STU I can promise you...they would reach the goal very quckily..there is a lot of die hard stargate fans out there, and the story of stargate is potentially endless just because of the fact that universe itself is endless without end.

747
So you can be brilliant AND overrated?  If someone said I was overrated I would take it as a knock. 

About Vangelis:  I would recommend Soil Festivities and Opera Sauvage to those who think only Bladerunner is worthwhile.  The compilation Themes is also pretty comprehensive for his classic period.  Anything after The City is not recommended.

I will give it a chance...

748


Not a compressor in the strict sense, more of a saturator but its what I use 99% of the time....you actually have to push it quite hard to make it behave as its name suggests.  Just dont touch the punish button.  Its a tone shaper for me





UBK-1: The Concept on Vimeo
This is something Im interested in as a tone shaper


The Electra - Punching Up & Widening the Drum Buss on Vimeo
and this as another tone shaper :)

That is my fav decapitator plug... I use it some time to get the sound more dirty or lo fi..  But it it is not my favorite tube amp.

Yeah ever since I saw the Electra when it was presented long ago I was interested in it...I like the concept... I was about to buy the Gain Train aswell from Kush, but I bought the dangerous source instead, which I think have even better value.

750
Are you serious that Vangelis is complete crap???



No...some of his stuff is okay...but IMO he IS totally over-rated and a bit self-important about his own musical impact. Just my two cents. I couldn't use the words "over-rated" to describe him because Steve Roach already took that title. ;) ::)

To be honest I have not gone through his entire discography but a lot of albums most was pure cheese and nothing like the blade runner.

751
I use compressors just to keep transients under control, or just knock down a band of frequencies. I'd be surprised if I was in the minority . . . likely most of us are using compressors while making ambient music.

Correct me if I'm wrong, folks.

Yep, that's exactly it, Mike.
Unlike an EQ, with a compressor you can keep the spikes and unwanted resonances under control without lowering all the material in that frequency range. I use a multiband compressor a lot in mastering, they are brilliant instruments. I also put a hardware compressor on whatever external synth I'm using, just to gently kick in at high levels and stop possible distortion.

Immersion. This is not to eliminate any attack in the sounds (unless that's what one wants of course), but only to keep the volume profile under control.

And yes, I think a real-time spectrum analyser is one of the most essential tools. I find myself using apEQ a lot on individual tracks and takes, its an EQ plugin with a spectral readout behind it. Very, very useful. Quick too.

Yes soniformer I guess could be seen as some kind of leveler, it is actually a kind of smart tool...you can get a more even mix and with that way you can bring up the volume more safely..

have not tried apEQ, but I can recommend
http://dmgaudio.com/products_equilibrium.php




752
Personally I find transients very important in the mix, that is where the attack and clarity is in the sound, so it is a good idea to bring them up.
I think you misunderstand my method. I work by subtraction, not addition. I bring down the dominant frequencies in a sound source to bring emphasis to the more delicate elements.

Actually, the more I think about it, the tools I use for this may not be considered a compressor, at least not in the traditional sense.  ::)
http://www.voxengo.com/product/soniformer/
http://www.voxengo.com/product/glisseq/

Soniformer is a much more aggressive tool compared to GlissEQ.

I used the GlissEQ and Soniformer som years ago I can't actually remember  But the soniformer did help perform a more even sound across the frequency spectrum .  Actually, Voxengo release very good sounding plugs for good price, but not the the most pretty plugins but they sound good. I like the Analogflux suite.. I still use it a lot.

For ambient music there is no big need for a compressor to be honest atleast not on the masterbus.  . I prefer to not compress the master at all just bring up the level, I tend to prefer to use a very clean tube amp for that and over drive the signal slightly, I guess that cold be called some kind of tube compression but in a more beautiful way..
As I said I am eager to try the new Dangerous compressor..it might actually change the way I use compressors. 

753
Are you serious that Vangelis is complete crap???

besides the blade runner soundtrack yes :)

754
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 27, 2013, 05:34:15 PM »
[I guess since most people are artists here they have the  need to some kind of self censorship in order to portray their own reputation. So as I said within a certain circle of people in this forum there will never ever been any arguments cause they do not want to risk to to create tension between relations.

Here's a good example of what I'm talking about.  This is just gratuitous and, frankly, speculative junk.

Forrest

All I am saying is that if we all would be anonymous and we would all be nameless the discussion would be completely different and more open... and not so targeted about only me... I am not the only one who come up with "controversial" statements but people choose to not take the argument because of not creating tensions between relations.

755
By "artifact", I assume you mean pumping?

I use compressors just to keep transients under control, or just knock down a band of frequencies. I'd be surprised if I was in the minority . . . likely most of us are using compressors while making ambient music.

Correct me if I'm wrong, folks.

I Guess the pumping effect you describe is one among many artifacts... it just tend to sound "flimsy" and artificial and just bad in general

I use very very mild compression I mostly use the make up knob on my ssl compressor. 

To keep transients under a control you use it more like a limiter ?
Personally I find transients very important in the mix, that is where the attack and clarity is in the sound, so it is a good idea to bring them up.  You can easily see by just watching the spectrum analyzer.

756
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 27, 2013, 05:15:20 PM »
I think people who have disagreed with you in this thread have said quite a bit more to you than "I have more experience," but you seem not to process what they saying or just dismiss it out of hand.  Maybe you should re-read some of the responses, especially Paul's detailed ones.  There's no secret society here, but if I were you I wouldn't be too proud about being a contrarian for contrariness' sake.  If you're seeking some help, you're going about it the wrong way.

Forrest

well problem is, no people have responded to my post, only a more "general" answer...where things are taken out of it's context.  But no detailed answer..that is why the whole discussions become some what foggy..

I actually see no problem with disagreeing, have you ever been an pro audio forum before ? You will see this all the time even with top producers they have widely different opinion about things.  Some people seem to be like "gods" over here some kind of oracle with such superior knowledge.

I do not see it like that I see like this that every one has different taste.
some one like soundtoys some one does not, personally I can't understand why one should lift this effects bundle to the skies when it so clearly compromise the sound...but as long as the person is happy... it is always like this..sound is an highly subjective experience so we do not experience the same things obviously due to many factors...  But I do not like the people are being treated like gods in here just because they have released a album, gods that you are not allowed to question or touch, when they say things you do not agree with. I guess since most people are artists here they have the  need to some kind of self censorship in order to portray their own reputation. So as I said within a certain circle of people in this forum there will never ever been any arguments cause they do not want to risk to to create tension between relations.



 

757
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 27, 2013, 04:36:03 PM »
Immersion said:

You seem to be getting lost in the details and are not attuned to what some of the more experienced musicians are trying to say to you. 

I think if some one said that to you you would consider such statements proactive.
I wish we could have a coequal discussion, where all people are equally worth, and not people riding on high horses saying things like "I have better experience then you"  it really kills the discussion, and is not really constructive and right.

I said that the years of experience is of no relevance, some people have it in them some have not, so to make this into some kind of competition who has released most albums and how have been working with certain audio in certai amount of years I find really provocative and arrogant.  People use it as their main argument that they have certain years of experience so for that reason everything they say is above others,  there is so many artists out there who have been working all life so years of experience say really zero to be honest.  Some one achieve the same results in 1 year then the other person achieve in 30 years in terms of sound quality  and production.

I think the people responding to your thread have for the most part been very restrained and I think most of the fire has been coming from your direction.  I certainly haven't been talking down to you and tried to give you constructive feedback on a piece you posted to the forum.  The only biting comments seem to be coming from people who seem frustrated by the generalizations in your responses.  Did you ever consider that maybe in your defensiveness you're overcompensating for insecurities about your own inexperience?  The best defense is not always an offense.

One other nontechnical word of advice--getting some musical training in performing or music theory, if you don't have some already, will benefit you in the long run.

Forrest

I have been restrained too, thank you, I am not the person who come with personal attacks, or sit on a high horse saying that I have more years of experience then you, etc etc,  I think that is not a way to defend your argument.
It is just a short lazy answer to win the argument. It is a well common strategy by people .

I admit I have things to learn, and probably you too, but I am not new to this I have many years of experience even though I have not released a album I have been recording a lot at home.  But years of experience argument etc..is just arrogant instead of keeping the discussion ot the actual content.

I understand that most people on this forum is one big family, mostly are arists who probably have met each other in real life, or been friends for long or are related to the Hypnos label, I understand the need for you all to "group" together and protect each other,  and you all are defending each other and totally represses anything you does not agree with cause you are all "friends" and you do not want to criticize each other as it seem. I am just a lone guy from Sweden, with absolutely no relation to any one in this forum, that is maybe why I dare to question people on this forum without out risking to create certain "tension" between private or professional relations.

That two way monitors is better then 3 way is a highly controversial statement for instance, but since you all are friends in here I doubt any one would dare to even consider to claim otherwise.



758
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 27, 2013, 04:06:59 PM »
Immersion said:

You seem to be getting lost in the details and are not attuned to what some of the more experienced musicians are trying to say to you. 

I think if some one said that to you you would consider such statements proactive.
I wish we could have a coequal discussion, where all people are equally worth, and not people riding on high horses saying things like "I have better experience then you"  it really kills the discussion, and is not really constructive and right.

I said that the years of experience is of no relevance, some people have it in them some have not, so to make this into some kind of competition who has released most albums and how have been working with certain audio in certai amount of years I find really provocative and arrogant.  People use it as their main argument that they have certain years of experience so for that reason everything they say is above others,  there is so many artists out there who have been working all life so years of experience say really zero to be honest.  Some one achieve the same results in 1 year then the other person achieve in 30 years in terms of sound quality  and production.


759
First let me say that I love Dangerous products and am the proud owner of their Bax EQ. I wont mix without it. Its filters are great for cleaning up sonic junk. As such I am very curious about their new Compressor and I am sorry I missed the demo and launch of it at AES last month.

You are right Immersion most ambient folks shy away from compressors, me I tend to use 4-12 (mostly hardware) of them on my mixes for creative sonic shaping on percussion and synths and synth leads ect.

On my master buss of EVERY mix I do, along with the above mentioned Bax EQ, and a Kush Claraphonic EQ is the A-Designs Nail compressor and in my opinion from classical to metal to folk and yes ambient and electronic music it is one of the few pieces in my studio that I use on every mix and can't live without. Its a compression that lifts and separates rather than squashes. You should check one out.

They are tricky to uses and if you google Ronan's Roadshow he has a great demo of one. Its on rock, but still gives a cool idea of how it works.

PV

I have seen the BAX EQ in so many studios now..I am very interested to look more into it.. and see how it perform and sound, I think it can be very useful and fast tool.

A lot of people where surprised when Dangerous did present a compressor it has never been there territory, so I know with their legacy that it would be something special...

Looking forward to read some reviews of it and if it lives up the expectations, but I am very sure it will I know they would not release a crap product, especially after been waiting for such a long time to release it.  I think a lot of the sound chain in the box is probably very similiar to the other gear so it will be as clean as any other Dangerous product...I hope it is a compressor you can use on anything to just make it all sound better.

For ambient I think to have a good compressor is even more important.

I think it is mostly the the lower frequencies that can sound really bad with a compressor in ambient music...some people might not hear it but I hear it very clear the artifact.
So I would be careful using it on the low end.  It can be good to use in mid range and high end..to get all the details and transients higher up in the mix to get a more even sound.

760
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Digital to analog converters
« on: November 27, 2013, 03:11:24 PM »


You know, 3 years ago I would have been one of the snobs scoffing at computer/software reverbs and claiming that in no way could a software reverb ever compete with hardware. This is why I had an H8000FW a few Lexicon units ranging from the MPX-1 on up to the PCM's , I also had a TC M3000, a Roland SRV-330 and an Eventide Eclipse.
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Yes that is right, thanks to Lexicon PCM native, a lexicon box is not really needed anymore.
the lexicon plugin was really the most perfect release one could wish for...especially since it
did use a very little cpu.. probably cause of the algorithms has been optimized for 30 years or so..However, if you do not want the Lexicon flavor there is less alternatives, There is the Eventide Blackhole reverb, but for me eventide is not just about the reverbs but the whole package of effects used simultaneously.

For ambient really if you have the Lexicon or even Ariesverb, you can mix in the box for
sure...

There is one reverb box called Bricasti M7, it is supposed to be the most powerful reverb box right now, and it sound unlike any other reverb out there, it is the most realistic reverb, the designer described at it is 10 reverbs in 1 box, of these 10 reverbs each reverb have is responsible for certain frequencies and room placements.  I wish I could hear it with my own ears, it is a lot of hype about it, and it is a true stereo reverb, unlike for instanance lexicon which does sum the signal to mono.  The Designer said there is not possiblity to runt this on a x86/x64 platform, so there will be no plugin.  From what I have heard the M7 is the cutting edge in reverb right now, I am unsure how it is for more unreal hall reverbs... hopefully more realistic and true to the source and detailed.
 

Then a switch was flicked and companies got it. In my opinion the Lexicon PCM collection is equal to the hardware PCM-96 and is easier to program. Universal Audio got the rights and the white papers and even worked with the original developers to put THE EXACT algorithms of the Lexicon 224 and the EMT240 into the UAD-2 card. The only thing lacking is the original low bit D to A converters and even that was modeled. There are countless others that are amazing.

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yes the converters coloring and saturation is not modelled in the PCM native, for instance some people really like the PCM70 for that reason, even PCM91 sounds different compared to the plugin, but on the other hand the plugin sounds even more clean.  You can add the color you want in your daw or with outboard gear..so no problem really..just gives you more control.  Relab did a lexicon emulation of Lexicon 480L, they did model the converter saturation too..I can recommend it, it is less 3D then the PCM native..but could be used as a good alternative.


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The H8000FW is an amazing and perhaps the most amazing multi-fx box ever made, but as Immersion pointed out (or Mr. Roach told him) it is a way of life. As a father of 3 and a full time working audio engineer, I do not have the luxury to dig into a box that deep. Plus its programing is very archaic. You need a corse in hieroglyphics. If it had a good computer editor I may have kept it, but at $5500 it sat unused in my room unless I was playing live...IE not a good use of $$$ So I traded it to the owner of a high end mic company for two of his mics, one which I the sold, and one that really made a bigger difference in my studio than any mic before it. Win, win!

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Yeah I understand what you mean, it is unfortunate that it is soo hard to program, I do not plan to spend much time with Vsig in any recent future,  I know the presets are very good, you can come far with just slightly modify each preset according to your taste,  to make your own preset from scratch is more of an science.  The box are made to get good and fast response easy if you use the presets as template... but also you can go as deep as you can with vsig.  I will se if I buy the EVE/NET controller it seem most people say it is definitely worth the money but it is very expensive unit, kind of a robbery for just a controller, but I guess it makes the life a lot easier.  For a guitarist like me I will definitely have more use for it.


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Immersion sorry to refute you but I CAN do everything the H8000FW did inside the computer with my various reverbs, and SoundToys plugins, UA plug-ins and PSP plug-ins. I can also do all of that with the same stunning sound quality and sonic integrity. This is not bragging, its just a fact of how I work and what I can do. The H8000FW is a sound-mangling effects box first and a reverb unit second. To buy it as a reverb box alone is a colossal waist of money in my opinion. Also pulling up effects plug-ins in the computer and chaining them is way easier than working with the Eventide. Again this is my opinion and how I prefer to work.

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Well I am glad for you, you tell me know you use a lot of other plugins UAD etc..
anyway I am not impressed with sound toys, but it is the best I have for effects right now
in the computer unfortunately, they can still be good for sound mangling.. and to transform sounds..  Regarding that if it is easier to pull up plugins then putting up a preset in the Eventide, well I told you before maybe you forgot I wrote it, but one eventide Presets can consist of many elements each represent a plugin, delay, reverb, pitch shifting,  modulation etc, to get that eventide sound you need to open up a lot of plugins, when you can do it with one click with the box..also..saves a lot of cpu since especially high quality effects true the source eats the cpu totally. It is also good for live improvisiation, which is the way I tend to work, when I create music I would prefer to work as much outside of the computer as possible cause I do not want to be drawn into an intellectual state of mind which is very easy when you stare at the computer screen in front of you, I do best music when I have my eyes closed.




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Please don't take this as bragging but I have had a 15 plus year career (you know where you get paid money for your work) of doing sound design libraries for various companies and in reviews of said product, as with my albums sound quality has always been mentioned as stellar.

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I respect yout 15 years of experience and career...I like your first album...Silence speaks in the shadow, so I am not questioning your expertise... but even in the real of pro audio..there is also highly different opinion about anything.. to find consensus about everything is not possible.. all have different ideas and taste...of what is best. I did go in school in studio recording for a few months, I did start reading studio magazines an forums in 2005, but learned a lot myself.  And I soon have my own studio finally.  But I have recorded a lot of real time improvisations on my computer though, it is just that I do not feel I want do anything with these recordings unless I can get them as good as imagined, so my so called career have been delayed many years..due economical reasons.. which really have been taking away a lot of important years from my life really.  But maybe it will turned out to be a good thing that I waited I hope so cause I am now more prepared.



I really am not trying to be rude, really I am not and if we were talking face to face maybe I would not sound like such a jerk but I just need to point out as Mike has more politely than me tried to point out, there are actual working pros on this thread who are staggered by your empirical statements of what is the best pieces of gear for "ambient" music. I actually find it demeaning to myself, and to many of the others here when you say things like "purity of sound and ultimate clarity and quality may not be as important to us as it is to you"...or what ever, I know I am paraphrasing. I mean seriously...my gut reaction is "do you know who you are talking to?" Most of the folks here have 10x the experience you do and you may do well to chill and listen a bit! You may just learn something.

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There is a lot of talk about 10 years of experience, and 15 years of experience it is really  not anything that is revelation to the discussion there is a lot of artists that have life long careers, as a musician and producer is a lot about your taste and sense of audio , some one have it some have not.  Of course I understand you did might not say it directely but indirectly, the whole general attitude seemed to be that you could get away with bad equipment with the right skills.. I told many times this correct but to a certain level, to beyond a certain thresold you really need more then good skills you also need good tools and equipments.

I guess I was kind of tired of people who just was talking about how to compromise the sound and to get away with as little money as possible buy replacing really quality hardware and analogue gear with software emulations,  I think this is fine, if people want to do that, as long as they are satisfied,  as long as you agree that you come to a certain point where where just pure skill and craft will not be enough to get things done the way you are imagine it. The discussion did turn out in the begging that plugins are the salvations and all outboard gear is just overpriced and expensive and not really worth the money when you have cheap plugs that do the "same".

I am aware you might not said it directly but indirectly the discussion did go in that direction
And Personally for me when soundtoys was compared to the H8000, I could not hold myself anymore I am sorry. I have used soundtoys plugins for many years now, I know them very well...I guess we most have radically different standards when it comes to satisfisfaction, as I said they can sound good but they also destroy the source, especailly the high end, and for me personally I have absolutely no idea how you would not notice that..I am sorry to tell you but for me it is really beyond my mind.  But the most important part is that you are happy, obviously there is people who like soundtoys and people who do not, but I think you are in absolute minority to claim that soundtoys can replace the H8000.  It is really the first time I have heard such claim by any one so...do not take it personally please.


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Dude trust me I have been there, right where you are, I have! I chased sound purity for years, I have driven collaborators nuts with my obsession for scrubbing out noise and the clarity of gear, and in the end it got in the way of the music more often than not.

I can say we clerly are not the same. For me I aim for control of the sound, if I an a natural and clear sound in my system to begin with I can then add every color I want, if I want to add noise, tape noise or whatever I can do so.  I do not like that kind of professionals that everything is supposed to be super clean, it should be that if it fits the sound only, but I would never generalize and say that it would always be super clean etc...it all depends on what music.. that is the way I think... I prefer to against all traditional methods and just let my gears guide me. Not many people in 2013 would add tape noise in their recording, but I do cause my ears like it. But it goes against all rules in the "book". But I do not follow any books.. I think no one should but you should know the basics.. knowledge is good but there is no real rules it is only the final results that matter.

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Dude you already have great converters, nice monitors and the king of effects boxes...STOP NOW!

I wish I could, I have still not sold my aurora. The only reason I want to sell it is because I get more then what I paid for.  What is good about it is that it is 16 channels the burl is 2 channel, I also have an expensive mogami cable especially designed to fit the lynx and rme combo.  I know how I am, I always strive for perfection so I guess I will never be satisfed until I have the Burls, even though I know the Lynx is good.  Besides that the Burls looks really good also, would look good in my studios with those meters...etc..but I would buy it for the sound and I would know for sure this is the best sound I can get.  From all people using burl equipment they have hold said the same that it made their job so much easier made it so much easier to make the mix sound good and all...that is what I strive for..I am redy to pay for all shortcuts I can do make my music recoding as painless as possible, I rather pay the price then to spend endless painful hours on doing it "the hard way" I just want the best possible sound directly with help of outboard gear, which help give that extrac analogue magic and sparkle to makes it feel more alive with detailed harmonics etc.

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Lastly one other bit of factual nonsense...

3-Way monitors are a very poor choice for monitoring unless your room is big enough to have the throw where they can do their job, so telling others that everyone knows 3-ways are the best, is inaccurate if their rooms cannot accommodate them.

To be honest I was very surpsied you say that, 3-way monitors are superior, a 2 way speaker is not a good idea, it will just become one big mush compare to a 3-way monitor where everything will become a lot more clean and a lot better separation in the sound,
it is simply not a good idea to have all sound go through 2 elements..  All the best monitors today that I know if is 3 way. Focal, barefoot, trident, RL 901K.

However what I might add is that to get a 3 way monitor work properly it is a lot more demanding and harder thing to construct, so it is possible that there is a lot of 3 way monitors out there with less successful construction... But the best high end monitors are 3 way, and for a good reason, I have really no idea how you could deny such thing,  the benefits is obvious.





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