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Messages - LNerell

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Everything and Nothing / Re: Downloading Music and Rights
« on: April 22, 2009, 02:53:31 PM »

it is now cheaper then ever to create your own music, since the digital studio almost everyone can afford and home studio. People like me can't afford nothing, no cds at all almost, and no software. So in my case I would not be able to record any music at all if it wasn't for piracy.

You contradict yourself here, you say its so cheap but then claim that you can't pay for it so the only way to get it is to steal it, there is another alternative. When I was your age (I am assuming you are in your early 20s) I also could not afford all most anything, CDs, musical instruments, etc. So what did I do? I took classes at the local school to learn and use the instruments they had. I went to our local library to listen to music that I couldn't afford. Finally I did what many others have done, I got a job to buy the gear with money for said job. You obviously had some money as you have a computer to run the software on. If you continue to steal software and not pay for it then myself and others who do pay for it will have to pay more for our software in the future to make up for your selfishness. Or, the software might come with some form of dongle device (like a big hardware box) that requires it to work. In other words you'll have to buy hardware again like I had to when I was your age.

And when we are talking about pirate copies and financial losses, it is very important to clearly we are talking about an POTENTIAL loss,

You seem to be assuming that all downloads are from people who would not buy a CD in the first place. If this was the case then CD sales would not have tanked like they have with the introduction of high quality downloads. There is enough empirical evidence to indicate there is a connection between the two. As a personal example, when Terraform was released on CD the sales were much lower then expected based upon previous sales of my own releases and Steve Roach's normal sales for a new release. We found shortly after the album was released that someone had made high quality mp3s (320kps) of the tracks, had scanned all the artwork including the front cover, inside foldout, the extra postcards, and the CD itself. All were then zipped into a file and uploaded to a bittorrent site. This was the first case any of us has encountered of this kind. You could argue that no one was interested so they didn't buy the CD, well thousands of people were interested enough to at least download it. I won't argue that all of those thousands of download were potential sales, but sales have been so low that the label has yet to recoup its costs, and this has made it difficult for me now to release any new material.

I have tried to explain to you that to live and survive on making independent music is very hard and for 99,9% only a dream.

Itís always been hard but that's no excuse for being selfish and making it harder then it needs to be. Downloading at artists music and not paying for it turns that dream into a nightmare.

I have not interest to support labels in the future, we need to get rid of this middle hand, since the money gets in the wrong pocket, the artist is the one who should get the most part of the profit.

I think getting rid of labels is a bad idea, not all labels are bad. Good labels work with the artist, they provide services that help them and work more as an artist collective then a monolithic machine. One thing they can provide is a cheaper way of producing product. If they come to a replicator with several projects they can get a cheaper rate. If they have several artists they can get better distribution, etc. I think the irony of this whole free download thing is itís made the large labels even bigger. They have slowly bought each other out to the point their are only 2 or 3 big labels which in the long run has hurt music with less competition. Less competition means less chance for interesting music to be heard. Its also forced the large labels into a corner like posture, which has fueled the whole attack on p2p sights. I think the piratebay people are seeing this first hand.

We have about 15% unemployment in Sweden, but that is already changing, since the young generation do not want to work at all, they all want to live in freedom.

Freedom to daydream all day long, to daydream about all the great art they could make if they weren't too busy daydreaming.

However, as I said, unless you have talent like Roach and do not own your own label, these is no way you can survive on cd sells, that is the reality. Some pocket money from cd sells will not help. If you have your own label and release many cds

Just so you know Steve's label is actually a joint project with Projekt Records for many of the reasons I stated above.

I advocate copyright, in the sense that if a person have done something he or she should be associated with the work and no on else, I see this is an fundamental right and important. This protection is important since it gives you the right to own the rights to your work.

If you believe this then you should allow the artist to control how they wish to have their art consumed. If artists wanted to have their music downloaded freely then their is nothing stopping them from putting it up on a website and letting any one download as they wish. Since most artist don't do this, or do this on a limited basis then they have made a choice that they do not wish to have unlimited access at such a high level.

I would rather see something like PROUT in the future, have a lot of interesting ideas as well

In my youth I had a great interest in utopian societies, I've read quite a few books on all kinds of utopias (including a few distopias), had endless debates, some friends and I even considered the possibility of starting a small commune. I should also point out that I am not a strong believer in that capitalism is the best of all worlds and am open to the possibility that their maybe something better. Having said that most of the utopian projects that are currently out there will probably never see the real light of day in our lifetimes. They are at best --  like the Venus project -- centuries away from even a remote possibility of reality. So I think its very unfair to us musicians (who make the most affordable of all the arts) to have to bare the burden of dragging everyone into these utopian dream worlds. Its not going to happen in one little corner, itís going have to happen in a broader forum.

To me its probably the best thing he has done. Having said that, I just heard from Barry that the copies that Hypnos and CD Baby currently have will probably be the only ones offered for sale.  :o So, if this artist interests you I would suggest you get your copy ASAP.

Everything and Nothing / Re: Downloading Music and Rights
« on: April 19, 2009, 06:21:11 PM »

Sure the production is a physical process, however what you buy is the experience...
But With your logic , if I buy an Steve Roach album I should also pay for his studio equipment and his time ?
If I buy an album I would in that case need to know how many hours he have spent to create the "product" and what studio equipment (ingredients) he have used
to create the final form otherwise how should I determine it's financial value ???
And how much is his time really worth ?

For Terraform it was about 15 days of work, about 10 hours a day, so that comes to 150 hours. At the bargin basement price of lets say $50 an hour for studio time that would come to $3000. You can send me that amount as a check or via my paypal account, I'll make sure to give Steve his half the next time I see him.  ;D

But as I said, I do not agree with your statement, that artists release less music because of internet.  Look at Robert Rich for example he did just release an 8CD live archive.

You still have to buy them.

Everything and Nothing / Re: Ungrounded outlets and equipment safety
« on: April 13, 2009, 04:27:43 PM »
Your studio should be properly grounded, and ground lifting should only be temporary until the actual problem is fixed. My first studio was in a space with no grounding and I use to get shocked when I would touch two or more pieces of equipment or walked around in my bare feet. Once I grounded the space that stopped happening.

Your speaker problem sounds to me like its not related to the grounding issue, but as you suspect to the loud noise. You probably damaged the speaker, then it was just a matter of time before it completely died.

Since the Nebula CD hasn't been released yet, plus their is all the confusion as to which band is which I was thinking its not too late for yet another name change to perhaps Nebulous;D Not only does the term mean "hazy, vague, indistinct, or confused," but it also has a lesser known secondary meaning "of or resembling a nebula."  :)

Everything and Nothing / Re: US Copyright rant
« on: April 08, 2009, 08:46:55 AM »
Mike (Altus), nothing personal, I have no problem with you or anyone else going the CC route. You have to follow the path that is best for you. Just realize that not everyone will follow your example.

I am all for better ways of doing things, I just don't think CC is the answer in its present form, and my comments were mostly directed at Wayne's pros and cons post which came across to me as rather one sided. I can certainly understand his frustration with copyright laws on one level. On another I think he's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Everything and Nothing / Re: US Copyright rant
« on: April 07, 2009, 11:33:43 AM »
I have to say I am one of those artist that makes a small amount of money from royalites and sales but not enough to live on. And for the last couple of years when I have been struggling just to pay the bills, the few hundred dollars I have gotten from my music has been greatly appreciated and has actually helped me out of some dire times.

Everything and Nothing / Re: US Copyright rant
« on: April 07, 2009, 09:25:47 AM »

4:  (This is my favorite.)  In the present day, there are many more ways for a musician to make money, other than royalties or selling cds or downloads.  The sales are dropping on all fronts, even theft is down.  The point is to find other avenues.

I don't buy any of your pros (pun intended), particularly this one. What other ways are their to make money off of our music that didn't exist in the past? I think the opposite is true, even your second sentence contradicts that first sentence. I just don't understand why one would want to cut off a potential income stream in this day and age when its harder to make any money off of your music.

Besides, if I was in this to make money, I'd play in a country band. 

Why does one have to make popular music to make a bit of money? Why can't I be compensated for my hard work?

2:  The whole copyright/licensure principle is set up by and for big record companies.  It's the only way to get around the stranglehold large corporations have on the industry.

I think I could just as easily argue that CC was set up by big radio so they don't have to pay royalites to artists whenever they play a song. It would be a huge benefit to large radio corporations if they didn't have to pay out mechanical royalites. So who is right here, you for spreading a rumor you picked up on some internet site, or me for starting a new rumor that makes as much sense as yours?

Everything and Nothing / Re: US Copyright rant
« on: April 05, 2009, 09:59:11 PM »
Creative Commons is the way to go in my opinion...

Yep, pretty much the way to go if you don't plan to make any money or want to give up most of your rights to your music.

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: iMac for music?
« on: March 31, 2009, 02:03:43 PM »
Often it is the user itself that make Vista a nightmare it works flawlessly here..
You need a lot of tweaking to get the most out of it...

Funny how my "toy" "plastic looking thing" that I used to make parts of Terraform worked flawlessly out of the box without any tweaking needed. I guess I am a fool for "throwing my money away" at a machine that does the job and lets me get to work instead of spending hours hunting down bugs or new drivers for a flawed operating system that was rushed out too soon.  ;D

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: iMac for music?
« on: March 31, 2009, 01:50:29 PM »

The only thing I will warn you about is that there are no two track editors equal to either Sound Forge or Wavelab in the Mac world. I have tried Bias and I could not stand it. I actually know of a few high end mastering engineers who purchased PCs just to run these programs.

Actually their are quite a few two track editors and/or mastering programs such as:

Waveburner which comes free with Logic is pretty good CD burning program.

Waveeditor is the cheapest and is getting new features every day.

DSP Quattro is pretty inexpensive and is also getting more features.

Peak Pro 6 which is getting better.

PreMaster CD

Which is a cut down version of SoundBlade.

The last two being pro mastering apps so they are quite expensive.

I mainly use Peak 5 (haven't done the upgrade yet, maybe this summer) and Waveburner. I've been using Peak since 1.6 so I know it pretty well, before that it was Sound Designer and Masterlist CD. Both are long gone now.

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: iMac for music?
« on: March 31, 2009, 01:26:42 PM »
Phew !    :D

Now look what you started!  :P ;D

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: iMac for music?
« on: March 31, 2009, 08:31:44 AM »

Ok I still have a high opinion of you.  :)  ;D

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: iMac for music?
« on: March 30, 2009, 04:27:59 PM »
The iMac you're looking at has twice the RAM and twice the hard drive space, compared to the $1199 refurbished model Apple is offering, so aside from the financing issue the newer machine has some benefits for the money.

I didn't take RAM and hard drive space into consideration so good points. But in defense I almost always buy third party RAM and install it myself as its much cheaper. You can also buy an external firewire hard drive to make up the difference, I usually use a second hard drive just to store my audio files.

APK I hope you were joking, no  ;D or  :P so I couldn't tell for sure, and I have a much higher opinion of you . . .  or should I say had?  ;)

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: iMac for music?
« on: March 30, 2009, 08:53:18 AM »
Yes an iMac can work for audio. I don't use one (I still have my old G5 desktop) but I know lots of people who do use one, and at the college I use to teach we had several set up for students to use with Pro Tools.

If you need a firewire 400 connection and don't mind a bit slower machine and would like to spend less, check out this refurbished model at the Apple online store:

With the money you save from buying the refurbished iMac you can get Logic Express. If you know someone who works or goes to a local college you can save a few bucks on new Macs and software. The full version of Logic is half off at their on line education store. Heck you could try it yourself, just type in your local community college and try buying something. I've used their education store to buy most of my products from them and I have never been asked for any form of proof.

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Gear: Studio shots by Deb
« on: March 26, 2009, 04:45:20 PM »
That Ursa Major unit looks particularly cool.  I remember seeing a brochure for that many years ago, but never actually saw one in person.  Also nice to see your vintage Emu gear.  I still use my Emu sound modules, especially the Morpheus.

Thanks Forest. The Ursa Major is pretty cool, given its age. Yeah I still use all those Emu modules, even my Emax II sampler at times. The Morpheus I like, it kind of bookmarks the Wavestation in my mind, both good at making long evolving pads but in different ways. I still have to set up my keyboards and patch a few things here and there but its getting their.

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Gear: Studio shots by Deb
« on: March 25, 2009, 12:41:44 PM »
I just finished revamping my studio, I moved it to a bigger room and also pulled the old mixer out of storage and have put it back in service. Other then that not much different except for the layout and location. So here is the latest version:

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Tetsu Inoue
« on: March 16, 2009, 11:54:51 AM »

Now somebody tell me, pray... can I get a witness?: do I absolutely have to seek out Slow and Low at all costs, or will my life still be liveable to the full without it? And what's with Waterloo Terminal?

If you like Ambiant Otaku and Organic Cloud then you should probably also get  Slow and Low. I also think World Receiver is worth getting. Waterloo Terminal I never really liked, I think it was one of his first in his glitch phase. It's been awhile though so I should probably give it a listen again.

Did you read that he quited making music because of illegal downloads in russia?
Such a fool.

It's pretty dishearting to find your music posted all over the internet for free the week after your CD is released, and then to watch your record company struggle to break even. Forget about making a profit, this music is hard enough sell as it is. Personally I think its the person uploading the media who is the real fool.

Hypnos Label Releases / Re: A Produce & Loren Nerell, Intangible
« on: March 07, 2009, 01:34:47 PM »
Good timing, Barry and I got together yesterday to work on some matrial, although not much really came of it as we mainly just reviewed what we have done so far and talked about direction. Yes we have I believe five tracks so far which adds up to around 42 minutes of matrial.  We are thinking maybe a couple of more tracks and we will be finished.  Stay tuned.  :)

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