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Messages - LNerell

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Everything and Nothing / Re: new age voice
« on: April 14, 2008, 03:58:41 PM »
Bill, the only thing I assumed was you wouldn't take my question personal, I guess I was wrong.  :(

Everything and Nothing / Re: new age voice
« on: April 14, 2008, 09:26:57 AM »

I commented on this list at the time it was published, but FTR, the biggest problem I have is with artists who record in the genre itself being selected as judges. That is just wrong, IMO.

Why do you think this is wrong? The title of the article is The Most Influential Ambient Albums of All Time, I would think if anyone should have a say as to what has been an influence it should be the artists.

I think he's busy trying to find a new forum for the Fauni Gena people.  :P ;D

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Wonderful World of Gamelan
« on: April 05, 2008, 04:16:31 PM »
I'm enjoying the clips you posted, Loren. A few questions: Is this Balinese style? Why is are the musicians divided across the room?

Yes it is Baliese style. The musicians are divided to allow room for the dancers, music and dance are very much together and the dancers need to be close to communicate with the musicans.

I notice there are also women playing, in Gamelan are women traditionally allowed to play?

Well that is an interesting question and requires a complicated answer, but I will try to be short. In Bali the answer has mostly been no, but that is changing as more women have become interested in playing. Most people seem to think this has happened because of Western gamelan groups going to Bali and performing with mixed gender.  When I first started going to Bali I never saw women involved in gamelan music expect as dancers. Then about ten years ago I started seeing all women groups at temple festivals playing older styles of temple music. I've heard now their are some mixed groups so its changing. In Java women have traditionally performed but usually as singers or on specific instruments. I think that is also changing and I have seen some all women groups but not as many as in Bali.

Is Javanese Gamelan strictly Muslim (would these kinds of dancers be allowed to perform, etc...) How did Gamelan adjust to Indonesia becoming Muslim, was there an attempt made to eradicate it? I am assuming it was just too ingrained in Indonesian life for that to ever happen.

Yes you are correct, gamelan predates Islam in Indonesia by several hundred years. As far as I know no one tried to eradicate it as part of some strict muslim code, instead what actually happened was gamelan music was used to bring people to Islam. The story I was told was a very large in size version of a gamelan called Sektan Gamelan was made to be played inside the Mosque, people wanted to see the gamelan but where told they could only enter the Mosque if they were Muslim, so many people converted to Islam just to see the gamelan. That gamelan now plays outside the main Mosque for one week a year, I was fortunate enough to make some recordings of it back in 1994. I have some pictures of it on my website which you can see here:

Do some Middle Eastern music forms or influences play a role in the Javanese Gamelan...

Not that I am aware of, the only exception might be the rebab (2 string fiddle) which came from the Middle East and is part of the gamelan.

for that matter, have any outside musics been influential on Gamelan in history, because Gamelan strikes me as a wholly insular and completely native type of music

Some people have spectulated on several outside influences, ranging from African drumming to Beethoven! But none have really been proven. Its hard to prove because their are very few written records and the few that do exist are mostly recent or hardly make reference to origins of gamelan. Probably the oldest records of music in Indonesia are carvings of musicians on the Bororbudur, the worlds largest Budda stupa which was built in the 9th century. Most of those instruments appear to be string/harp like with only a few percussion instruments appearing in the carvings.

there is just nothing out there that sounds like it at is as if aliens came down to ancient Indonesia and left this music behind...

Yes this is generally true of most royal court music from Asia, and a great deal of gamelan music comes from that tradition. In fact most of the Central Java gamelan music you have been listening to is actually from the royal courts. Their are four royal courts in Central Java, after the Dutch took over the courts were not allowed to fight each other and were mostly disarmed. So, the theory goes they turned to the arts to conduct their battles, and the arts then took off and produced most of the classic central Java gamelan music and dance that we now know. This took place in the 14th/15th century.

As for other CDs of gamelan music. As Gordon mentioned the Nonsuch recordings are a good source. Their are three CDs of music from the four royal courts of Central Java (a fourth recording was made but never released). These were recording by my mentor Dr. Robert Brown, made mostly back in the 1960s/70s. Back in the 1990s King Records in Japan had a very interesting series of CDs which is worth looking for. JVC also released quite a few CDs of gamelan music back in the 1980s  along with some videos.

I'll talk about Balinese gamelan in more detail at a later date.

Everything and Nothing / Re: What should a small record label do?
« on: April 05, 2008, 03:05:30 PM »
Ok I have invited them, that's if the comment is approved. I expect Mike you are right to a degree, I also expect that some could care less and just want the "free" music. We shall see if any of them come.

Everything and Nothing / Re: What should a small record label do?
« on: April 04, 2008, 04:40:33 PM »
On the Fauni Gena blog they seem to be debating which direction they should go, including starting another forum for download purposes. It seems they would also like to have our point of view on the subject. Shall I invite them to the Hypnos forum for a discussion? What do you think Mike? Its your forum and I don't want to bring anything here without your permission, especially something that might get a bit messy .  ;D Maybe you could setup another sub-forum just for the disccusion?

Everything and Nothing / Re: What should a small record label do?
« on: April 04, 2008, 10:37:20 AM »
To add more to the fun, I just found another blog site that links our music for download  >:(

I suggest going their and checking to see if your stuff pops up, then complain to rapidshare (again) and to wordpress. I already got the ball rolling with both.

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Wonderful World of Gamelan
« on: April 03, 2008, 11:06:11 PM »
I just feel like loading up the 5 changer with all gamelan for weeks on end...would be quite a consciouness altering expedition...

Been there done that many times.  ;D

Seriously their are many different styles of gamelan, the Central Java style of those CDs being just one of the more well known ones. I have hundreds of hours of CDs, cassettes, LPs, and recordings of my own that I have made, and all that just touches the surface. Basically Central Jave style gamelan is the original heavy metal music, as in iron and bronze. While balinese gamelan is the original speed metal.  ;D I'll try to write a more serious reply to the questions about different styles tomorrow, in the meanwhile here's some links to some videos of the balinese gamelan group that I play with here in LA, this might give you a bit of an idea:

Everything and Nothing / Re: Come closer, Philly...
« on: April 03, 2008, 10:52:57 PM »
You want pain...
I live in Florida.
I will be in Maryland the week of June 7-13.
A week later, June 20-22, my 50th birthday weekend, NEARFEST is in Bethleham, PA.  Synergy and Peter Hammill.
whoa! larry fast himself? cooler than cool!

I was thinking the same thing when I saw Peter Hammill listed.   :D Man I haven't seen him live in years, I hope he's touring as their is little chance of me making it that far east for me to catch him. I might as well just go all the way to the UK and catch VDGG live instead.  ;D

I actually met Thomas Ronkin, around the time his 2nd album came out.  He was traveling through Portland for work -- he actually worked for the government as a translator. 

The last I heard that's what he was/is doing. He and his family moved to Washington DC and is working full time as a government translator. For a while he was working a lot with Colin Powell until he got the boot, I actually saw him on TV a couple of times in the background. He travels a lot working with various heads of state from various nations. I understand he has a little studio in a briefcase he takes with him on his travels that he sets up in his hotel room and works on music. I would not be surprised if we hear more from Thomas in a few years.

Tuu came up here not too long ago, and somebody knew what they (he?) had been up to, but I don't remember.

If I remember correctly it was Martin Franklin himself back on the last forum. I don't remember much of what he said at the time except for something along the lines of amusement that people were still interested in TUU. But I have to disagree with Gordon with his comment of The Frozen Lands being an example of his recent work, at least the little I have heard. True, it is more electronic but The Frozen Lands is much more ambient in nature then his more techno sounding works of late.

Martin's website is still active and has some sound samples of his more recent work which you can find here:

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: i loved this album......
« on: April 01, 2008, 05:27:55 PM »

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Steve Roach discussion
« on: April 01, 2008, 04:55:18 PM »
NO ONE has become rich selling records (except Vangelis, probably, and only if you consider the pompous Greek an ambient artist).

Off topic but since you brought him up here is an interesting recent interview with that "pompous" Greek artist.

Everything and Nothing / Re: Confused about DVD regions
« on: March 28, 2008, 12:49:22 PM »
BTW, does anyone know what is the source of the region discrepancy? Why does this hold true for DVDs but not CDs? Just curious...

I'm sure the record industry would love to have a region list for CDs, but it was never part of the red book spec. While for DVDs the movie industry insisted their be something like that in the DVD spec before they would release anything.

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Steve Roach discussion
« on: March 28, 2008, 12:42:28 PM »
Damn, I'm lost reading between the "jump to conclusions" game, and the "let's bust those who jump to conclusions" game.  I'll play the latter game, and remind Loren of the time he tried to jump me (yes, a card-carrying member) in a case of mistaken identitiy once.  I satirically referred to Roach as a 'sell out', because, well, we had a couple infamous forum members a few years back who labeled him as such.  Loren totally misunderstood my joke, and well, y'all know how the rest goes  ;)

I think I have a pretty good memory but I don't remember that at all. If I did as you said then I am sorry. Its sometimes hard to tell when one is joking and one is being serious in a written context. Maybe Drone on is doing the same but I have seen over the years enough people take pot shots at Steve just because he is thought of as a big name in the field. And since he is a close personal friend it takes it to a whole other level for me.

Is Steve perfect, a saint, incapable of mistakes? Heck no. Do I think anyone saying anything negative or critical about him is totally wrong at all times? No, far from it. Heck even I have a hard time keeping up with all his releases and I agree that sometimes his website is a bit heavy. So maybe I am the one jumping to conclusions and I should just shutup or maybe even just get off these forums all together.

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Steve Roach discussion
« on: March 28, 2008, 11:35:04 AM »
[...] and immediately got jumped by a couple of SR card-carrying thugs [...]

Presumably those SR cards are available from in a range of dinky shamanic and fractal designs for the New Dreamtime Thug  ;D

I need to get my card laminated as I always loose my card because I keep forgetting to take it out of my pocket and it ends up in the wash.  ;D

Drone on, I'm not going to go into it with you because to me the issue isn't about Steve's sales, its about a game you are playing which I finally found a picture of:


Everything and Nothing / Re: Confused about DVD regions
« on: March 28, 2008, 11:16:28 AM »

So, here's my decision. Which makes the most sense, economically and which nets me the best quality end product?

1) Buy the UK sets and then buy the cheapest possible region-free DVD player? (anyone know how much that will cost?). If I do this, can I watch it on a non-PAL TV, which is what my TV is (I wasn't even aware that TVs had regions but I guess they do?)

This is the way to go. I bought a player that does this from a few years ago and it works perfectly. It will play all regions and will even convert PAL to NTSC on the fly and its cheap:

BTW PAL and NTSC are not regions but standards, PAL has more lines of resolution then NTSC.

Everything and Nothing / Re: Charles Manson enjoys Hearts of Space
« on: March 28, 2008, 11:07:23 AM »
I remember seeing that interview, it was done back in the mid 1980s. Its just as disturbing now as it was then. He is in California, at the time he was in Vacaville state prison in Northern California.

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Steve Roach discussion
« on: March 26, 2008, 07:28:56 PM »
I don't think I'd have to be "highly" cynical unless I had good reason to be, and judging by the fact the label itself is stuck with what, 1,000 copies that aren't selling forcing them to practically give it away,

How do you know they are stuck with "1,000 copies?" I doubt they even printed that many. You are making assumptions based upon little to nothing, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

and then discovering, by coincidence, 80 sets of only the other two discs...when I read the "explanation" for all of this my intelligence was insulted.

If agreeing with you that you are being cynical is an insult then I suggest to you to develop a thicker skin.

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Steve Roach discussion
« on: March 26, 2008, 02:27:34 PM »
Just an FYI for those who don't get the news letter. For the last month or so I've been uploading to youtube various Steve Roach videos. Their are some concerts of Steve, including a living room concert with the band Suspended Memories, some interviews, and some out-of-print video art from the 1980s. I'll be putting out more in the near future but to see what's up now you can go here to see them all:

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