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Messages - LNerell

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Everything and Nothing / Re: Recording fee advice needed asap
« on: September 04, 2008, 12:19:51 PM »
The finance guy wants to pay me a one off fee for the recording - no future royalties. I have no experience of charging for time so would like advice on
1 - hourly rates for recording time

I would charge at least $40 an hour.

2 - one off fee on top for just vocal CD
That depends upon how long the project is and how involved and how close you are to the client. Remember its your time so what is your time worth?

2 - one off fee on top if I include music or field recordings.

Obviously more, figure out what your music is worth to you to charge.

Other things, if you are writing the music then its your music, he gets no publishing rights. Music license should be non exclusive and only for self publishing, it should be open ended in case a larger publisher does pick up the book. Also, don't give the money man a choice about fees, I'm sure he would like to pay as little as possible, he'd like it even more if you paid him!  :P

Don't thing about the "potential" of the book, it hasn't happened yet. Just make sure you get properly compensated for your time.

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Alesis Andromeda A6
« on: August 31, 2008, 10:47:22 AM »
Jesse (Numina) I think has one. They weren't discontinued just out of production until parts where available. I have to say I've tried one a few times and it never jived with me.

Everything and Nothing / Moving threads?
« on: August 23, 2008, 01:32:38 PM »
I was just wondering instead of locking a thread is it possible with this forum to move threads to  a different area, like the Free-For All zone? Just wondering out loud.

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Wonderful World of Gamelan
« on: August 21, 2008, 03:43:53 PM »
I should have pointed out that most of the King Record CDs are out-of-print, which is a shame as they are quite good. The others I am not sure of with the exception of the Nonesuch releases which I know are in print. Basically I put these out so you know if you run into one of them then just grab it.

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Wonderful World of Gamelan
« on: August 21, 2008, 01:03:21 PM »
Here are a few gamelan CDs I would recommend:

Central Java
Court Music of Kraton Surakarta[King Record Co. KICC 5151/KICW1015]
Court Music of Kraton Surakarta II [King Record Co. KICC 5193]
Gendhing Bonang, Court Music of Surakarta III [King Record Co. KICC 5238/KICW1077]
Music of Mangkunegaran Solo I [King Record Co. KICC 5184/KICW1075]
Langendriyan, Music of Mangkunegaran Solo II [King Record Co. KICC 5194]
BTW, "Solo" is short for Surakarta, the city in which this court is located.

Java: Palais Royal de Yogyakarta: Vol. 1, Les danses de cour/Court dances [Ocora/Radio France C560067]
Java: Palais Royal de Yogyakarta: Vol. 2, La musique instrumentale/Instrumental music [Ocora/Radio France C560068]
Java: Palais Royal de Yogyakarta: Vol. 3, Le spirituel et le sacré/Spiritual and sacred [Ocora/Radio France C560069]
Java: Palais Royal de Yogyakarta: Vol. 4, La musique de concert/Concert music [Ocora/Radio France C560087]

Javanese Court Gamelan [Vol. I], Pura Pakualaman, Jogjakarta [Elektra Nonesuch 79719-2]
Javanese Court Gamelan Vol. II, Mangkunegaran, Solo [Elektra Nonesuch 79721-2]
Javanese Court Gamelan Vol. III, Kraton Yogya [Elektra Nonesuch 79722-2]

Yogyakarta: Gamelan of the Kraton [Celestial Harmonies 13161-2]
I haven't heard this recording but I included it because David Parsons made this recording.


The Bali Sessions: a Definitive Collection of Balinese Gamelan [Rykodisc]
Recordings on mostly rare and older forms of gamelan from Bali.
Bali: Music from the Morning of the World[Nonesuch]
CUDAMANI: The Seven-Tone Gamelan Orchestra of Pengosekan, Bali[Vital (City Hall)]
I have to confess these guys are friends of mine but its a great CD which demonstrates what's going on in Bali today.
Gamelan Music of Bali [King Record Co.]
Gamelan Semar Pegulingan Saih Pitu: The Heavenly Orchestra of Bali[King Record Co.]
Wonderful seven-tone gamelan that's different then the Cudamani gamelan, originally courtly music that almost died out, now making a bit of a come back.
Bali: Music for the Gong Gede[Ocora France]
Rare ceremonal ensemble, only a few exist.
Clash of the Gongs[Long Distance France]
One of my favorites, recordings of mostly new compositions.

I think that will do for now.

Everything and Nothing / Re: 2008 Olympics
« on: August 19, 2008, 05:43:08 PM »
All these years later I'm still mighty impressed with Bob Beamon's record long jump, I remember as a kid marking the length of his jump out on my front lawn and looking at it in amazement. At the time of the 1968 Olympic games he broke the world record by 2 feet, it was the world record for 23 years, and now 40 years later it is the 2nd longest jump in history and still the Olympic record.

I was driving 60 miles a day four days a week. Now that its summer I have switched to three days a week as their is not as much to do at school during the summer. Next month when summer school ends I will cut back to two days a week until the fall quarter begins, then its back to four days. Other then that I'm not doing much, if my hours increase to full-time then I might switch to a van pool. I just paid off my Honda Element so I don't want to get a new car again for a few years. Maybe when the Volt or some other electric car is released I will consider buying again.

Now Playing / Re: Currently listening, part 1
« on: August 13, 2008, 04:14:38 PM »
The last few weeks I have mostly been listening to field recordings I made in Indonesia back in the 1990s. I'm transferring all my DAT tapes to my computer, after which I will burn them to CD for archiving and listening. Currently I'm listening to a recording I made in Java of Gamelan Sekatan from the Kraton Solo (central Java royal court) from 1994.

Art and Literature, Movies and TV / Re: Now reading
« on: August 13, 2008, 02:08:04 PM »
I'm currently reading Stay Off the Skyline by Laura Homan Lacey. A oral history book about the U.S. 6th Marine Division's invasion of Okinawa during WWII. My father was a part of that invasion, he never talked about it much and after now reading some of the book I can understand why. If he experienced half the stuff the survivors talk about in that book I'd probably want to forget it too. Not for the faint of heart.

Manuel will be performing in LA next year.

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Wonderful World of Gamelan
« on: August 06, 2008, 05:34:31 PM »
About the last question I asked  up there, about the birds chirping, what do you think?

"Also wanted to mention, was listening to Volume V of the series and on the first track there is an exquisitely beautiful passage where a distant tropical bird begins to sing, and it seems that this bird is working along with the music. Later, more birds join in, and maybe I am hallucinating, or it is wishful thinking, but it feels like the Gamelan is playing along with their cries, or vice versa! Have you ever noticed this phenomenon?"

Sorry I thought it was a rhetorical question. I haven't heard this CD but my feeling is you are hallucinating.  ;D  In a very tropical place like Java its hard to get away from the sounds of nature, especially where a gamelan is recorded. It's done in a special building called a pendopo, its open on three sides, usually made of marble, stone or other hard objects and has very high ceilings and gives it that kind of watery sound quality. Because of its openness birds, frogs and insects tend to use it as much as anyone else so they tend to become part of the sound fabric of these recordings. Here's a picture of a pendopo in one of the royal courts:

Of course this reminds me of some stories I have heard about the beginnings of gamelan. One being an early version of gamelan actually mimicked the sound of frogs. You can kind of get the idea if you listen to frogs in Java how this might be the case.

Years ago I made a recording at the Mangkunegaran royal court which from your discription has a simlar quality. Their were birds flying in and out of the pendopo during this performance and upon listening to the recording later on it added to the whole of the sound. Of course it has special meaning to me having been there at the time. As I type this I am in the process of dubbing all my field recordings that I did back in the 1990s from the original dat tapes they are on and putting them into my computer. I'll have to make sure I add that recording to my list of dubs for tomorrow. :)

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Forum members on
« on: August 06, 2008, 03:58:48 PM »
Thanks for checking Rob. Their should be more up soon as I am in the process of releasing my first two cassette only albums as downloadable releases. Maybe by the end of this month my first album Point of Arrival will be ready for download.

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Forum members on
« on: August 06, 2008, 02:19:13 PM »
I believe my music is up there but I don't have a subscription so I can't check myself.

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Wonderful World of Gamelan
« on: August 06, 2008, 11:46:38 AM »
Looks like this thread got lost in the fray, leaving these burning questions floating in mid air...

Loren, where are you?

I'm here.  :) I thought this thread got lost in the last forum meltdown, glad it didn't. And good to see one of Gordon's last posts, I had forgotten he had participated in this thread.

Quote from: 9dragons
Forgot to ask if you have heard this Gamelan of Central Java series...and if so, what do you think of it?

I have a few of these discs from this series, I seem to remember volume 2 & 4, and maybe volume 3. I'm not at home right now so I can't tell you which ones. Its been a while since I have listened to them but I seem to remember that they were pretty good.

Quote from: 9dragons
I have an interesting one of all wooden Gamelan (is the wooden stuff technically Gamelan?) called 'Between Heaven and Earth' which seems to be of the more speed metal Bali variety. But the wood is an amazing twist, quite enjoyable.

I have that recording although I don't remember much about it (I probably have hundreds of gamelan CDs) Its not wood but bamboo, and yes it is considered gamelan, its probably an ensemble called Jegog. I will check this when I get home.

Quote from: 9dragons
From Nonesuch, I have 'The Jasmine Isle' (Java), 'Gamelan of the Love God' (Bali) and a big comp by David Lewiston called 'Bali'.

David and Bob Brown were to two main guys recording music in Indonesia for Nonesuch back in the day. Since you like central Java gamelan so much you should pick up Bob's three recordings of royal court music of Java. All three are on Nonesuch, hopefully one of these days Nonesuch will release the 4th volume that Bob recorded, they've been sitting on it for 30 years now. Bob also recorded a couple of Balinese gamelan albums for Nonesuch which are worth having, actually 'Gamelan of the Love God' is one of Bob's.

David has one other CD you might want to pick up, its called Trance 2 and was released on Ellipsis Arts back in the mid 1990s. It comes in a CD-sized 64-page hardcover book.

Quote from: 9dragons
I think Volume II, 'Ceremonial Music' might be the Sektan Gamelan you mentioned. It is very deep and powered with intensely hypnotic drumming, and it seems from the background noise that it is a festival atmosphere...quite a wonderful and trance inducing recording.

Hmm, not sure if its Sektan from your discription. Their is only one drum in Sektan and its used only occationally. I'll dig that CD out when I get home and give it a listen. The background noise sounds right, when I recorded them their was a big festival going on all around, in my recordings you can hear these snaps that occur, which were whips that people were demonstrating. I just remembered their is a small example of Sektan on my CD Indonesian Soundscapes. The track is called Maulud Nabi Festival. If I remember its only a modal introduction as an entire piece would have been too long for that CD.

I think this is the case of any musician in his/hers early phase, to focus more on the technology instead of develop your own talent and skill. I will not deny that I am in the same phase, I definitely do not use my current technology which I have access to to full extent.

If what you say is true (and I don't think it is, not the way you mean it) then you need to get out of this phase as quickly as possible. If you think Steve Roach and Robert Rich make their soundscapes by pushing presets you are dead wrong and are heading down a dead end path. Both of those artists make their own sounds from scratch. What you need to learn is the basics of synthesis, how a synthesizer works so you can make your own sounds. I would recommend getting a book or taking a class or maybe finding something on the web before taking another step.

Just about all the soft synths you mentioned can make very good ambient sounds. The reason most of those presets suck for ambient music is because most people who buy those synths don't make this kind of music, so the programmers make sounds that will help sell them. Once you know how synthesizers work you can make all kinds of interesting sounds with them. I've made some really interesting long evolving sounds using Absynth and FM7.

Hardware vs software synths, my take is they are just tools. They both have advantages and disadvantages, I tend to mainly use hardware but I also use software whenever it seems right. I know for a fact that Steve hardly ever uses softsynths, and Robert uses a couple of softsynths but mostly uses his hardware. In the end its really about ideas everything else should be their just to help you realize them. Good luck.

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: GOT GEAR?
« on: July 21, 2008, 11:25:38 AM »
That just shows you how screwed up our health care is. I mean that should only have cost 22 copies of Komplete crossgrade.  ;D

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: first Oophoi vynil is out
« on: July 20, 2008, 10:46:25 PM »
Great looking album cover Gigi, you have a link where we can order it? And good to see on this forum again.  :)

As Mike said an audio interface with more then two audio inputs, or a mixer with USB or firewire connection, something like M-Audio's NAV10 mixer. I would also add a midi interface with at least two midi in/outs for your two keyboards.

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: GOT GEAR?
« on: July 17, 2008, 08:05:52 PM »
I'm still lusting over the Komplete + Kore combo that's going on right now - $999 for both.   

Let me dampen your lust for at least the Kore part. I had one and was never really that happy with it. It just never lived up to my expectations, half the features I bought it for never really worked the way I wanted it to. It seems now to be an excuse for you to spend money now buying presets from NI.  If anyone is interested its up on ebay right now:


LN - There is a switch to either play the digital in line or the main UA-25 out. When the switch is on, I'm hearing the Yamaha (through the Edirol mixer).

You can disregard what I said earlier, I for some reason thought the Edirol mixer connected to your computer via USB or firewire, so I assumed their was a conflict with the audio interface.

As Mike said, your setup can work its just not very flexible.

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