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Messages - Horizon 1982

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Listening: Podcasts, Mixes, and Music Sample Clips / Re: Ambient on youtube
« on: September 10, 2014, 02:42:01 PM »
Hallå Extasis

Yeah that was the theme we were discussing the other day, but this real case with my friend here made me bring this subject to this forum :)

He was telling me that it wasn't because of the video and he really thinks that youtube track is actually better than the artists mentioned above. But I agree with you and his mind certainly has been tricked because of the video.

Listening: Podcasts, Mixes, and Music Sample Clips / Ambient on youtube
« on: September 10, 2014, 12:32:50 PM »
I've showed a friend some ambient that I enjoy, Mike Griffin, Oophoi and others in the same genre.

The guy said:

'It's lifeless simple and morbid'

On the other hand he said he enjoys a lot this one:

Do you think a pretty video and images makes a bad/unnoticed track interesting and vice versa?

Forum Member Projects News and Promotion / Re: Phobos - Sector Four
« on: September 06, 2014, 07:03:55 PM »
Hi Phobos,

I'm interested knowing what hardware synths did you used?

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Bad Ambient
« on: September 05, 2014, 11:44:46 AM »
Eating with bare hands is also one of the oldest and true original ways of eating

Thanks for that, I'm always looking out for original ways to eat, I think I may stop using the digereedoos and use bare hands instead.
Bad, bad ambient...

You should use bare feet it requires more skills. I'm using nose these days, but I'm wayyy ahead of you.   ;)

Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Alesis Andromeda A6 FS
« on: September 04, 2014, 01:35:11 PM »
Does anyone else have an Andromeda for sale?

I'd be willing to pay good money. I want the A6 like this one.

Are you in Europe?

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Bad Ambient
« on: September 04, 2014, 09:56:20 AM »
Blasphemy!  Ah, well, to me the didge is the oldest, truly original acoustic ambient sound generator, but I suppose not everyone is going to "di(d)g" it.

Eating with bare hands is also one of the oldest and true original ways of eating. :)

I don't know, I never enjoyed primitive stuff in music.

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Bad Ambient
« on: September 03, 2014, 06:37:16 PM »
Steve Roach when uses didgeridoos is bad ambient.

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Bad Ambient
« on: September 03, 2014, 10:45:42 AM »
I hear ya.

To me anything that sounds like a product is bad ambient:

Tomas Weiss

Mars Lasar

Dan Gibson (with few exceptions)

To name a few.


A Waldorf Q + XT is a better investment than this giant synth.
When I listen to it on youtube it's hard to distinguish from my Q and the price...To close to a Yamaha CS80.

The part 2 is great too. Both have a very deep feeling. I just wished that the second one didn't end so abruptly.

I love part 1. The composition and the quality is just mind blowing. Congrats.

So Tomas...a week has passed......what was the purpose of this?  Did it answer anything for you?

Hey Julio,

I will explain more soon :-) Still in the middle of some additional tests.

BTW: Instead of fighting in other threads, particular this one would be something for my audiophile friends CCT / Ekstasis to participate and share their opinion. But nope….just silence!


I'm not audiophile, you got it wrong. I couldn't care less for 5k oxygen free cables. Or gold plated wall power socket.


The reality is that there ARE experts in the audio field when it comes to gear and its use. There are experts at mixing and audio engineering. There are people who have spent years learning composition theory. There are people who are expert craftsmen at creating and shaping sounds. Best of all, all of these exist within our own genre.

I would like to add that I prefer ambient music by a person with no technical skills and superb creativity. In my area technical experts are the people doing TD jobs which consists assisting REAL artists when they reach technical difficulties. Both are necessary of course.

But don't underestimate the raw power of naivety, children are the most creative humans using divergent thinking and divergent thinking should be used plenty in arts.

Gently wading back in here... :-[

Lest I be misinterpreted as attacking any one specific person or not...all I was pointing out with my previous post on low end and where it sits in certain songs hitherto being discussed here, I think that it is perfectly valid to like or dislike anything based on ones own personal taste. I like low end in my ambient music...Great!!! You don't Great!!! I do think the line gets crossed when a person makes presumptive statements about the music along the lines of "so and so must be loosing their hearing" "or "its all due to their switch from gear X to gear Y that said artists music now sucks".

Again, you can say, "I don't like the music now as much as I did before", you can even say that in your opinion you preferred when said artist used synth X, reverb A or mixer C.

However the statements here lately take on a tone which is more along the lines of, "The artist is making a BIG MISTAKE because they switched their gear, or workflow, or they are going in a different direction". Again, you may not like it as much. This is valid. Accusing them of going backwards or not knowing what they are doing or whatever based solely on your personal flavor taste profile is not alright. Its the artists decision to go in what ever musical direction they want, with what ever gear they want, in whatever studio that they want. If you like it or not, thats what you get to decide.

One other thing that seams to be popping up here often which is a very interesting blend of gearslutz meets audiophile discussion. In this arena of gear geakdom there are two schools of thought:

1. Good music can be made with any gear no mater how expensive, cheap, hard or soft.
2. It takes the highest end, cream of the crop gear to make it

In some ways, both are right, but it depends completely on who is wielding the tools. No more and no less. It can also be equal parts studied expertise or naive happy accident.

This brings me to my final point which is tolerance and respect of each other...probably not in the way you think though.

One thing internet culture has dumbed down is opinion vs expertise. (there are many interesting articles on the subject so google it). The crux is that "my opinion is just as valid as another persons years of study, use and expertise in a given subject."

The reality is that there ARE experts in the audio field when it comes to gear and its use. There are experts at mixing and audio engineering. There are people who have spent years learning composition theory. There are people who are expert craftsmen at creating and shaping sounds. Best of all, all of these exist within our own genre.

You would be wise to consider their opinions with an appropriate weight. Not that one never challenges or questions ones elders or sages in any given area, but a wise person always gives them respect and takes what they have to say to heart. A fool does not.

Example if someone has used high end gear gives a new person advice on how to do things better, the new person would do well to listen and consider what is being said. The key here is that the person with the experience should give the new person advice on how to succeed first with what they already have, and only suggest upping their gear if said gear is wrong for them or is causing them to hit a wall. This is the same for compositional advice or whatever. Its the old adage that before you break the rules, you should learn them or at the very least be aware of them and respect them.

Ok...I lied, one final point which rears its head every few years is "what is ambient music anyway?" Well in this day and age, good luck describing it and pigeon holing it. Some of it is deep and droney with little reverb or tonal movement. Some of it has "gasp" a melody played by "gasp" a real instrument...often which may be "gasp" acoustic in nature. Some of it is tribal with ethnic hand played drums. Some of it uses electronic programed beats. Some of it is bathed in more reverb than the deepest reaches of the galaxy. Some of it is lo-fi, some hi-fi. Some has analog sequencers. Some has string sections and choirs.

Its ALL various facets of what we call space music or ambient or whatever.


I really enjoyed reading your post. Congratulations.


well there is different religions there is people who believe in external/physical gear, but there is also another religion and this unlimited belief in this "magic box" ,  and with this "magic box" you can basically create anything you can imagine , it is basically your own imagination that set the limit of what this "magic box" can do.

That and cracked plugins, it's so easy to recommend software...........

'Ekstasis' said:
if it is any genre that gear MATTER it is ambient, since all it is about is ear candy,

Somewhat off-topic from the 'debate', but I felt I had to comment on this one.
Where do you think composition comes into play ?, same for structure and dynamics in a track ? If it was all about beautiful sounding patches and exquisite reverberations, why bother trying to do anything more than play some pretty chords ? 
Any old-timers here remember 'The Universe' patch on the Korg M1 ? All you had to do was noodle around in a pentatonic minor scale and everything sounded great - but it also sounded the same as anyone else doing the same thing...

Speaking of old-timers (like myself, increasingly), it's worth bearing in mind that they may have considerable years of being musicians under their belts and they may not all be deaf either :)

There's a lot more to it than mere 'ear candy' in my view. In order to create full finished tracks is a step beyond that requires considerably more in terms of application and attention to detail.

Sure, but how can you do a warm Juno-60 pad without a Juno-60? A Korg Z1 DSP FX sounds without a Z1? Oberheim sounds, that everyone wants to copy from Steve Roach?

These tools have to be present in the first place to composition and all the beautiful things that happen next. So yeah you need these ear candy devices. Unless you are using some obscure methods and I'm not talking about softsynths :) which is fine by me, but I don't mind sounding like everyone else, originality is a joke these days.

Just check Steve Roach studio or Robert Rich's and they don't have an empty studio, correct?

all gear have their own musical language and color

I couldn't agree more.

I really enjoy the colors and musical language of the gear I purchased, with very few regrets so far...I  didn't liked 3 synths and traded them.

I don't need to justify myself for being a beginner even though I feel I have the right sensitivity (I just need to work more) but hey I just started to build my studio as a part time hobbie about one year and a half ago and I didn't finished yet. I don't want to pursue (at least for now) a musical career, I'm a successful artist in an another field.

But I'm open to a thread like: ''Share your first ambient track, and tells us how you got your first gear''.

My tools are sponsored by my own money making art and not by my parents or a third party... so I'm really proud. I will continue of course to study this, because I love ambient.

I have the right to say I don't like a detail of a track(s) I purchased of a known master, my skills doesn't really matter as a listener and ultimately as a customer.


The tracks here, have in fact that annoying low frequency sound, if you want to connect on skype I can show you. I don't think that sound is musical at all and in fact it sound like a defect. Most comments here seem biased with all due respect.

Just to be clear I like Steve Roach, but I don't understand that decision.

Low frequency hearing loss is a common thing that happens when you get older.

Steve Roach has been exposed many years to drones, so makes sense to me.

I can't vouch for the Mackies, but my Neumanns KH120 are well known for not having a deep bass and I can ear perfectly that constant rumble that takes away the joy of listening the other sounds that matter.

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