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Messages - Seren

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801
Everything and Nothing / Re: Downloading Music and Rights
« on: April 25, 2009, 03:59:12 AM »

I think if you start as an artist, you could not expect anything in turn, you ask how the artist is going to survive on music, I think maybe you have wrong expectations, to survive on music is only a dream, and a reality for a very few.  To be a musician is not a work, it is not a way to make money as I see it. If you need to pay the bills and get food on the table and still want to be and free/independent music you should take some part time job, maybe a few days each month. Or come up with some other idea.
If you accept to live in an lower living standard you really do not need an full time job, a full time job would of course be an total disaster for every creative musician, freedom I think is an important element for every musician, as I have said before, it is an lifestyle.

You misunderstand my words here. I was not asking how would a musician survive on music, I was pointing out that living off the work of others is neither respectful nor freedom. In a way it is the ulimate expression of capitalism - which grew out of the idea of 'benefitting myself at the expense of others'. You may choose to live a less 'luxurious' life but if you do nothing to put energy or life into the society that feeds you are no better than the fatcats that make huge profits out of the labour of others...I know as I have lived that less luxurious life and worked with homeless people, vitims of rape and abuse, animals being experimented upon etc etc. As I explained in my post the anarchistic principle which is the end version of what you describe as the way to be, did not include people living for nothing. It allows for everyone to do what they can and recieve what they need without laws, financial exchange or any form of 'control' - everything could be free in the sense that you had whatever you needed and this works because you give everything you can.

I do not expect to survive on music, partly because my creative drive is neither towards money nor a genre of music that might make me that sort of money. But your perception on music and art is only half the story. I don't know how many people become musicians to become rich or famous, but many musicians do see it as 'work' if it is something they spend a lot of time working at. I doubt there is a session musician or soundtrack writer in the world who regards their music as not work and which should be free to everyone.

I may be being generational here but my experience is that usually musicians have to work bloody hard to make their music known and heard. Perhaps the ease of technology and internet know makes that less the case and I am living in the past - but many of the big bands that still play gigged and played and recorded like fuck to get where they are. I always had huge respect for such artists, and include early blues etc musicians who became maestros at their art through long hours of practice, living as bums if necessary, but very open to making money if it came their way. I have respect because I know how much effort it takes to become even competent on a musical instrument. becoming a musician and making a go of it - especially if you are gigging etc takes a lot of determination and commitment - perhaps even obsession, putting everything else second - and at present I don't have the sort of Life I could make that sort of choice to do, nor, perhaps more telling, would want to if i could.....

I do agree that a full time job can be very detrimental to making music - I have one and have to carefully juggle everything to give myself the time to make the music. I also know that without it my wife (who has been unable to work following major surgery) and I would have gone down the pan without it and I would not have been able to afford the equipment to start making music again.

802
Everything and Nothing / Re: Selling CDs in a Download Society
« on: April 23, 2009, 06:19:10 AM »
I remember in 1977 when I started visiting an independent record store in east London called Small Wonder, they also had their own label. The atmosphere was great, just poring over whole ranges of LPs from all sorts of odd places. Discovered kalus schulze there - cyborg and Irrlicht etc. Soon found out about Portabello road and went every weekend to go to the shops and stores just searching for new music...absolutely loved it, ended up with big collection (that I gave away when I started squatting)

HMV etc just dont have that vibe, I occasionally get excitement from coming across something by artists such as steve Roach or robert Rich and it does feel nice to see them, but ti is not an exciting prospect to go into them at all.



803
Everything and Nothing / Re: Downloading Music and Rights
« on: April 22, 2009, 11:13:44 AM »
I think there are lots of aspects and sides to the discussion and I have to admit I'd not thought about second hand CDs in that way....so lots to learn from.

I think my issue with the 'everything for free' comes from the perception that only by taking from others can everything be free and only in a wealthy and 'civilised' society are things organised in ways that make it possible to act on. Immersion said himself that if everyone in his country chose not to work it would collapse (I think thats what you meant).

Take it right back to basics - you find yourself on a desert island - how you going to survive? You've got to put your arse into it cos nothing is going to come for free. Even in modern society, someones effort has gone into making everything that might be taken for free - even the torrent websites need someones effort to exist.

There is an anarchist philosophy of (cant remember the exact quote) each from their means and according to their needs - but this was always based on co-creation. Some people grow food, others eat that food so they can make the clothes the farmers wear while working type of thing. The idea never envisaged swathes of society just sitting around and eating food made by others, wearing clothes made by others because they can. Accepted response of general population to such people was not pleasant....

I suppose, across generations, we may be talking about different ideas of respect, freedom, utopia - and I have had a long history of this type of discussion, including direct action/court cases and prison sentences based on those beliefs and even now they inform my work in that I put a lot of energy to help disadvantaged people left behind by the capitalist society.

I know I could not survive on my own and I would prefer not to take from people unless they are giving something away out of respect for them.


804
I don't exercise enough at present, but this spring have been walking more and done some reasonably heavy work in our daughters garden....

I hate 'doing' exercise, but have really enjoyed physical jobsin the past such as tree surgery and forestry - got very fit, very strong, had great stamina and worked in a stunning environment.....


805
Everything and Nothing / Re: Downloading Music and Rights
« on: April 20, 2009, 12:41:15 PM »
I think CD is as likely 5to dissapear as vinyl was supposed to - mind you it is still impossible to make an vinyl in your 'office' or 'bedroom'

And I agree with Lena - just because we can do it does not mean we should - guns are getting easier to get hold of, but should we all have them?, let alone get them for free..... ;D

My last comment on this is that I respect Immersions 'right' to listen to free music, as long as he respects the 'rights' of those artists who don't want theirs available for nothing on the internet.....

806
Everything and Nothing / Re: Downloading Music and Rights
« on: April 20, 2009, 01:11:20 AM »
Immersions comment that listeners/consumers have rights but artists do not is the basic assumption that throws everything out. Despite the possibility of language misunderstandings and the difference between 'younger' and 'older' generations I add my twopenny worth.

No One has any rights, rights are just agreements between 'civilised' people and when societies are basic and violent the concept does not exist. A right has no physical reality, Christ! it's only a few years ago that we would have all been sweeping chimneys or down mines at 7 years old - no time for rights then (I only mention this as evidence of statement, not wishing we were 'back' then or anything).....and within Immersions arguments anything that has no physical reality can be ignored. The 'right' to have music for free can be taken away as easily as the 'right' to life - just by being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Music may not hold any value because the internet, big companies or listeners devalue it, but just because the flow of information makes it so easy does not make it right. If someone managed to organise the flow of our belongings out of our homes that would not make that right either.

my disagreement is simple. I don't think things (music or otherwise) should be taken for free - if someone chooses to give something for free that is different...

807
Art and Literature, Movies and TV / Re: Now reading
« on: April 19, 2009, 11:33:05 AM »
Just learnt JG Ballard died this morning after a long illness. RIP.

808
Let's move any philosophical discussion on downloading pirated music, previews, samples, etc... To a different thread, please.

I was going to respond but these words of wisdom had the desired effect, after all this is a Steve Roach thread....

...and everyone's reports on the CD so far sound great - should order asap - but just ordered heroes series 1 and 2.....

809
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: How to create the Illusion...
« on: April 15, 2009, 11:58:56 AM »
I think this effect can be created a number of ways, sometimes its the techniques, sometimes the sounds, sometimes the effects and sometimes the playing.

I get that sense of falling from various pieces of music by various artists.

I also think, Immersion, that playing and exploring with your synths/effects/studio to find out how you like creating it is the best way to go - you may discover something the rest of us have missed.....

810
Now Playing / Re: Currently listening, part 1
« on: April 14, 2009, 12:39:18 AM »
oophoi - working through Time Fragments 1 - 6

811
Everything and Nothing / Re: Music, free or for sale ?
« on: April 13, 2009, 02:44:28 AM »
I think this will always be a swings and roundabouts issue - the pros and cons will change dependent on our situations and motivations. I don't do it for the money - and because of that I have not had the time or focus to put energy into doing what might be necessary to make money....I do enjoy getting feedback from people who have been touched by my music in some way.

for me 'fair exchange' is a better concept of what is important to me - and that can include swapping music, being paid money, or just knowing someone has a new favourite album, but this means interaction with individuals - I don't feel like putting things out there for 'free' in that sense yet - but may do in future.

I am also old fashioned in the sense that I don't like the modern tendency to expect everything for free as 'a right' or the consumptive tendencies that makes ring tones become 'music' and the amount of music or the lists of music on their Ipods more important than the music itself....I have downloaded free music that also includes the covers and information as I like to know something about who and why a piece of music came into existence. I know this last bit mixes threads a bit but it's part of what informs my choices in this area.

812
I think this excitement is essential....

813
Now Playing / Re: Currently listening, part 1
« on: April 07, 2009, 02:55:33 PM »
It's from Time Fragments Vol. 2 (it's the second track).

The whole disc is amazing - one of my favorite ambient journeys.

Gave this a spin this evening and really enjoyed it again....My favourite is The Changeling, but will spin a few more times to listen to The Last Farewell properly - rather than while doing something else.

814
Now Playing / Re: Currently listening, part 1
« on: April 07, 2009, 08:01:50 AM »
*Edit: To Seren:

It's from Time Fragments Vol. 2 (it's the second track).

The whole disc is amazing - one of my favorite ambient journeys.

I must dig that one out and give it a listen again, along with many of the others....

815
Now Playing / Re: Currently listening, part 1
« on: April 07, 2009, 06:26:59 AM »
O÷phoi - "The Last Farewell"

One of the most achingly beautiful pieces of music I've ever heard.

What Cd is that from?

I listened to The White Noise - The Visitation, trrack from 'An Electric Storm' - released in 1969 - It's 40 years old...

816
Now Playing / Re: Currently listening, part 1
« on: April 06, 2009, 04:51:31 AM »
Steve Roach - labyrinth

Jeff pearce - Vestiges

817
Forum Member Projects News and Promotion / Re: Seren Ffordd Thread
« on: April 05, 2009, 11:48:39 AM »
I've been putting excerpt clips onto my Atmoworks page just click on http://atmoworks.ning.com/profile/Seren if you are interested

818
Now Playing / Re: Currently listening, part 1
« on: April 02, 2009, 01:02:31 PM »
Vidna Obmana - Memories Compiled Vol.1.

Steve Roach - Atmospheric Conditions.

Micheal Moorcock and the Deep Fix - New World's Fair.

819
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: iMac for music?
« on: March 31, 2009, 11:57:51 AM »
I don't like computers for creating music  - at least in the form I have seen and could afford - not counting out machines I've not had the pleasure to met.

I have a newish computer with Vista and it is a nightmare - everything is slow and it crashes and seizes like no computer I've had before - all since installing official updates and it took me a while to realise this and can't work out which installs to uninstall >:( >:( >:(

I echo the comment of getting the equipment you are inspired by....hopefully well all be inspired by the music at a later date

820
Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Gear: Studio shots by Deb
« on: March 25, 2009, 05:02:08 PM »
Very Nice pics indeed Loren

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