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Messages - Seren

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Forum Member Projects News and Promotion / Re: Spore Video Game
« on: September 10, 2008, 02:09:37 PM »
Congratulations on this - bonus that you were not expecting it 8)

Everything and Nothing / Re: Recording fee advice needed asap
« on: September 10, 2008, 05:10:06 AM »
Mike - "Still, if they're saying "We might produce a million of these" then you have the right to quote accordingly. If they choke on the quote you give them, then that means they're not really anticipating that kind of success.  The problem with taking only a small "per copy" royalty rate, and nothing up front, is that if they only sell those hundred copies, you'd get almost nothing. 

It would be crazy for you to count on a big publisher picking it up... if big publishers were so interested, they wouldn't be doing this self-published thing in the first place."

I'm not counting on a big publisher picking it up and I suspect a quote based on really letting him have the full rights to the result will make him choke. But I'm not prepared to just give away my time and effort so will be giving a quote when next asked.

Numina - "As Mike says, if this is a true DIY project and you really think it could take off then you would want to stay on good terms with a reasonable low rate where everyone is happy and then hope they keep you on-board for the big pressing".

That would be my preference, but the money man has already said he just wants the rights and no later legal again he'll get the quote - with the 650 a minute figure thrown in to begin with ;D

Everything and Nothing / Re: Recording fee advice needed asap
« on: September 07, 2008, 05:17:14 AM »
The money man did mention one million as a possible future print - at even one penny a print that would be 10,000................ :-\

The money man is blowing a bunch of smoke. I'd say "oh in that case my fee is $100,000" and see what he says. The only million selling books here are on Oprah.

I know he's playing the game..........can I be bothered to play back is the question?

Everything and Nothing / Re: Recording fee advice needed asap
« on: September 05, 2008, 01:56:42 AM »

Don't thing about the "potential" of the book, it hasn't happened yet. Just make sure you get properly compensated for your time.

Thanks Loren, I got some interesting answers to this on SOS forum. "We charge about 650 per minute of music we write, record and produce at my company. It's buyout and single use. If it's ownership and multiuse, considerably more. Cost goes down for large projects - just finished one that took us a year (whilst doing other things) and cost the client 112K."  :o :o :o - that would make a 60 minute CD 39000.....and they don't appear to have a shortage of clients either.

I'm no longer thinking about royalties from future prints, again from SOS - "The one thing i've learned (learnt !!) over the years is to NOT hold out for royalties. Invariably when it comes down to it - the new publisher won't want to pay them or the old client will suddenly realize the headache involved. then there is re-use etc etc. I prefer loaded, in advance fees. When I quote for work I quote for the minutes and then lump a buyout on top of it."

That the project is for a good friend (not the money man) makes it more complicated as I'd like to keep costs down to give her book the best chance but I am not going to give my time away either. The money man did mention one million as a possible future print - at even one penny a print that would be 10,000................ :-\

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Touch me, touch me now
« on: September 04, 2008, 02:47:37 AM »
I find a similar thing can be caused by titles. When I was recording in my youth I never titled anything, prefering to allow people's imagination to have free reign. But if we all released all our music without titles or covers it could get quite confusing ;D

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Darkest Ambient
« on: September 03, 2008, 03:53:34 AM »
I agree with Joe's recommendation for Athlit....I had forgotten how dark, deep and good that disc is, it was on my collection for going to sleep when I was working away from home.

I would also add Max Corbacho's Far beyond the immobile point, it was also in that collection with Athlit and The magnificent void

I love Lustmord's Zoetrope. I think it brilliantly crosses the atmosphere of the part in 'Alien' where they are on the planet before finding the eggs and 'Eraserhead'....surreal, wierd unsettling dreaminess and mixing claustrophobia with being completely isolated....................But apart from Stalker and Where the black stars hang I've not enjoyed other releases as much - will need to listen to juggernaut and carbon/core again sometime....

and when I want to really get depressed and scared I listen to girls aloud......... ;D

Everything and Nothing / Recording fee advice needed asap
« on: September 02, 2008, 02:08:47 AM »
A friend of mine is writing a book. It is being self published and financed by someone she knows, but I don't.

They want a CD and have asked me to give them a cost (ASAP) for
A) just my friend speaking and
B) Friend speaking with some music or field recordings in the background.

They are only printing 100 - but there is the possibility of a major publisher picking it up.

The finance guy wants to pay me a one off fee for the recording - no future royalties. I have no experience of charging for time so would like advice on
1 - hourly rates for recording time
2 - one off fee on top for just vocal CD
2 - one off fee on top if I include music or field recordings.

Thanks guys....

PS I'm trying to juggle doing something with a friend which may get my name out there in a different field and getting a proper payment for something that may get printed a million times in the future.....

Everything and Nothing / Re: Most disappointing movie from book?
« on: September 02, 2008, 01:52:26 AM »
I don't read a lot anymore so many of the films mentioned I've not read the book. I have read Northern Lights and agree that the ending was "Noooo, you can't do that!!!!", which was brilliant. I think it must be very, very difficult to film a book as (not including any particular studio's ethos and the need to recoup huge amouns of money) one person (or small group of people) is putting their own imagination, as inspired by the book into 'reality'. When I read a book I get a whole reality open up in my mind, including  smells and touch - which cannot be replicated in a film, so it's unlikely any book can be recreated 'faithfully' and meet my own imagination.

Even 2001, in which the book and film were developed together, had it's limits. the book 'The lost worlds of 2001', if I remember right, had numerous scenes in it that were unfilmable at the time and so did not make either of the official film or book - so 2001 did not even meet the authors imagination and he was in on both....

However, Hollywood remakes and shit versions etc can really suck

I'm always confused............. ;D ;D  :o :o

If I ever manage to get website savvy and actually create one I would love to give some of my music as free downloads - but not make that my main focus. I sent Mike a couple of tracks as possibles for the 'Sounds of a Universe Overheard' compilation and would be happy releasing the unused track in that way, possibly other unreleased tracks too - in a way knowing I would not be aiming for a physical release all the time, with the consequent effort on art etc could make me (and i am only commenting on my own processes here) a bit freer in wilder experimentation, which of course would echo back into my sounds on the more formal planned projects too. i would enjoy the interaction between listener and creater in that sort of context.

Also as time passes I might look on early releases and might consider reworking them so that the original limited editions would still be unique, but have some of the tracks available for free in some way.

BUT, it feels important that I make that choice either way, for myself. Not feel I should do one thing or another because of modern technology, peer pressure or the need to make a living. I suppose I need to be free to make my art/music, even if I have no skills in marketing/publicising or any other form of getting it out there.

I think there is always a balance between energy put into something and what comes back, and that energy could be feedback, just knowing it is out there being listened to and also financial return. Artists in many fields juggle with these concerns all the time and despite the very public figures who may get rich it seems most muddle along to one level or another, often using unexpected finances if a piece is bought to finance the next.

My only concern is that the returns, of whatever form, make the efforts worthwhile. If I just felt it was a black hole sucking all my creativity, it would become unpleasant and a drain.

I am currently working on a project which will include a very limited run with a lot of artwork included - it's not cheap getting the printed I want done and i know the exchange rates are going to be a real issue for this. But in a family with, until very recently only one wage earner, I cannot afford to have an expensive hobby that uses up our food money, I'm not rich enough to have that freedom.

Here is the soapbox bit - I do feel the overwhelming desire to expect or have everything for free is a pernicious part of modern culture. Nothing is for free and you can't do or have what you want when you want it just because you do want it. we don't actually have rights to anything - just agreements that some things are considered good and others not.

Much of the current financial and social problems have been caused by that belief (and the more intricate and dangerous ways of making more and more money in order to fuel it). expecting everything for free is unsustainable whether you are an individual or a government and only develops if you do not have a clear awareness of everything going on (which is almost impossible in current situation - despite the information highway and overload). The Dineh, or Navajo, have a sayingwhich is something like "You act as if you have no family" and indicates a dangerous and unhealthy level of self interest.

OKOK could go on but will stop here

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Hawkwind
« on: August 15, 2008, 12:55:03 AM »
I highly recommend the re-issue of Nik Turner's Sphynx album "Xitintoday". Originally released in 1978, after Nik was out of Hawkwind, this album is based on his flute playing in the Great Pyramid. The vast echoing sounds give it a shakuhachi edge. A fantastical trip through Egyptian myth, so well evoked by Nik's lyrics and bizarre singing style. Some good musicians like Steve Hillage play on this as well. This album is dreamlike, and quite a wonderful surprise if you are also a fan of Hawkwind. The bonus track is a ragingly glorious 29 minute flute solo which to my ears stands up to zenned out Japanese monk shakuhachi playing. Also very worthy of note is the genius album art by Barney Bubbles, who designed the great Hawkwind covers. Different than his other stuff, very clever text-based art.

This album is a total sound, wonderful as an entire concept to experience all the way through...

One of my favourites and I managed to get a copy earlier this year. There is another more rocked up version, but I did not like it at all.

Other great hawkwind related rleases are New World's Fair by Michael Moorcock and the Deep Fix and Captain Lockheed and the Starfighters by Robert Calvert....

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Darkest Ambient
« on: August 07, 2008, 05:34:45 AM »
Lots of great music listed here. I've always loved Irrlicht and Cyborg by Klaus Schulze and Zeit by TD - I consider them dark in tone. I love  Where the Black Stars Hang and Zoetrope by Lustmord, I've picked up the impression that Black Stars was a seminal album, perhaps not so much the cheese as the mold later cheese was made in, but please correct me if I am wrong.

I also Like Mathias Grassows Dissolution - a great slab of very dense dark ambient. Also Refract Nick Parkin - not so much scary but dark and watery (and every sound sourced from metal).

Would the Backward version of TG's Second Annual Report (I think that was the one, I had it many, many years ago) count as darkest ambient - not just in the sound andenergy but also in the subject matter......

Now Playing / Re: Currently listening, part 1
« on: August 04, 2008, 07:55:31 AM »
Who else here has heard Vidna's collaboration with Alio Die "Echo Passage"?  My god, that is a stupendous slice of sound.  It knocks me for a six every time.

I agree, I love that album, and the Trilogy, and Forgotten Memories, and the Amplexus ep.... :)

and his more rhythmical outings like the Contemporary Nocturne, and Spore, And Tremor :). I think he creates in these albums as much of a magical space as in the glassy and dreamy albums, just in a different direction. And the titles are just as good.

Now Playing / Re: Currently listening, part 1
« on: July 29, 2008, 07:10:13 AM »
Vidna Obmana- Memories 1- Monument Of Empty Colors/Gathering In Frozen Beauty; Delicate and ghostly, and a definitive study of isolation. Any Vidna fan who hasn't heard these early classics should look these up.

I'd echo this in shimmering sorrowness. ;D the early Obmana is great stuff, with great titles.

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: first Oophoi vynil is out
« on: July 21, 2008, 03:34:54 AM »
Congrats on having a vinyl out Gigi, cover looks great.

Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Lustmord - Other
« on: July 17, 2008, 08:03:40 AM »
I always think it's an overstatement when people describe Lustmord as "evil" or even "scary" (I might go as far as "dark" or "spooky" or "sombre") especially considering that he seems such a good-natured guy.

I have to agree, I've gotten to know Brian over the years, he plays up a bit the "evil" "dark" images but its always with his tongue in cheek.

I'd agree with this too. Although he has recorded in some so called 'morbid' places and explores very dark places with some of his music IMO he does not appear to revel in the sense that would create the feeling of evil. This makes his creations very different to some who also explore the darker side of human nature but carry a very different feeling in their music

Everything and Nothing / Re: Do you still want to learn?
« on: July 17, 2008, 07:57:52 AM »

Would it be this Greek God, by any chance, Mike?


In Ancient Greek mythology, Silenus is the God of beer and a drinking companion. He is usually associated with his buddy, Dionysus. He is often featured as a bald and fat man, with a big beer belly. He is normally drunk and it is said that he had to be carried either by donkeys or satyrs (in Greek mythology, satyrs are wood-dwelling creatures with the head and body of a man and the ears, horns, and legs of a goat).

Terry Pratchett had a simlar charcter in one of his books, the "Oh God" of hangovers....this poor individual recieved the effects of the drinking undertaken by many in Baccanalian or Dionysion excess....

Everything and Nothing / Re: Do you still want to learn?
« on: July 16, 2008, 01:59:06 AM »
I started my social work diploma at 35 eleven years ago. Mainly as I lived in a very rural area where residential care was almost the biggest employer in the area. I really enjoyed it at the time, even though doing it with the Open University whilst spending 84 hours a week at work (including the laughably called sleep ins!!). Did the equivalent of two full time courses on each of the two years of the course - was bloody hard work (which Ileft me with w very strong resistance to further 'study') and there is the constant pressure to continue developing professionally which my heart is just not really into..... I would love to just go to college to learn something for the hell of it, maybe silversmithing or taking my interest in quantum physics theories into something further.

got a beeswax didg - smaller and easier to handle - and i am getting a good drone on it. also got a small frame drum and that has a great sound!

big enough cheeks to blow into didge whilst gulping air in through nose. can be useful to start with something smaller - in my case an antelope horn - so your body understands what you are trying to get it to do without thinking it's gonna pass out.

Everything and Nothing / Re: Favourite dramatic piece of music
« on: July 14, 2008, 08:43:56 AM »
I really love the music to the film 'Black Robe'. I find it haunting, powerful, melancholic and uplifting. The musical movements when the troupe are travelling really generate the sense of huge wilderness.

At work so unable to provide the name of the composer.

I think the film balances the happy feel of 'Dances with Wolves' - some of the actions are very cruel and no wonder the europeans shit themselves when they met them for the first time, they looked bloody scarey.

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