[ Hypnos Forum ]

I think there are lots of aspects and sides to the discussion and I have to admit I'd not thought about second hand CDs in that way....so lots to learn from.

I think my issue with the 'everything for free' comes from the perception that only by taking from others can everything be free and only in a wealthy and 'civilised' society are things organised in ways that make it possible to act on. Immersion said himself that if everyone in his country chose not to work it would collapse (I think thats what you meant).

Take it right back to basics - you find yourself on a desert island - how you going to survive? You've got to put your arse into it cos nothing is going to come for free. Even in modern society, someones effort has gone into making everything that might be taken for free - even the torrent websites need someones effort to exist.

There is an anarchist philosophy of (cant remember the exact quote) each from their means and according to their needs - but this was always based on co-creation. Some people grow food, others eat that food so they can make the clothes the farmers wear while working type of thing. The idea never envisaged swathes of society just sitting around and eating food made by others, wearing clothes made by others because they can. Accepted response of general population to such people was not pleasant....

I suppose, across generations, we may be talking about different ideas of respect, freedom, utopia - and I have had a long history of this type of discussion, including direct action/court cases and prison sentences based on those beliefs and even now they inform my work in that I put a lot of energy to help disadvantaged people left behind by the capitalist society.

I know I could not survive on my own and I would prefer not to take from people unless they are giving something away out of respect for them.

I think CD is as likely 5to dissapear as vinyl was supposed to - mind you it is still impossible to make an vinyl in your 'office' or 'bedroom'

And I agree with Lena - just because we can do it does not mean we should - guns are getting easier to get hold of, but should we all have them?, let alone get them for free.....

My last comment on this is that I respect Immersions 'right' to listen to free music, as long as he respects the 'rights' of those artists who don't want theirs available for nothing on the internet.....

Just learnt JG Ballard died this morning after a long illness. RIP.

I think this will always be a swings and roundabouts issue - the pros and cons will change dependent on our situations and motivations. I don't do it for the money - and because of that I have not had the time or focus to put energy into doing what might be necessary to make money....I do enjoy getting feedback from people who have been touched by my music in some way.

for me 'fair exchange' is a better concept of what is important to me - and that can include swapping music, being paid money, or just knowing someone has a new favourite album, but this means interaction with individuals - I don't feel like putting things out there for 'free' in that sense yet - but may do in future.

I am also old fashioned in the sense that I don't like the modern tendency to expect everything for free as 'a right' or the consumptive tendencies that makes ring tones become 'music' and the amount of music or the lists of music on their Ipods more important than the music itself....I have downloaded free music that also includes the covers and information as I like to know something about who and why a piece of music came into existence. I know this last bit mixes threads a bit but it's part of what informs my choices in this area.

*Edit: To Seren:

It's from Time Fragments Vol. 2 (it's the second track).

The whole disc is amazing - one of my favorite ambient journeys.

I must dig that one out and give it a listen again, along with many of the others....

Steve Roach - labyrinth

Jeff pearce - Vestiges

Vidna Obmana - Memories Compiled Vol.1.

Steve Roach - Atmospheric Conditions.

Micheal Moorcock and the Deep Fix - New World's Fair.

Very Nice pics indeed Loren

Public Image Limited- Rise

Interesting band name in the midst of the others....

Found on another forum, but well worth the snorts into the tea cup at work....

This, I am assured, is the text of a genuine HMRC letter:

"Dear Mr X,

I am writing to you to express our thanks for your more than prompt reply to our latest communication, and also to answer some of the points you raise.

I will address them, as ever, in order.

Firstly, I must take issue with your description of our last as a "begging letter". It might perhaps more properly be referred to as a "tax demand". This is how we at the Inland Revenue have always, for reasons of accuracy, traditionally referred to such documents.

Secondly, your frustration at our adding to the "endless stream of crapulent whining and panhandling vomited daily through the letterbox on to the doormat" has been noted. However, whilst I have naturally not seen the other letters to which you refer I would cautiously suggest that their being from "pauper councils, Lombardy pirate banking houses and ****ant gas-mongerers" might indicate that your decision to "file them next to the toilet in case of emergencies" is at best a little ill-advised. In common with my own organisation, it is unlikely that the senders of these letters do see you as a "lackwit bumpkin" or, come to that, a "sodding charity". More likely they see you as a citizen of Great Britain, with a responsibility to contribute to the upkeep of the nation as a whole.

Which brings me to my next point. Whilst there may be some spirit of truth in your assertion that the taxes you pay "go to shore up the canker-blighted, toppling folly that is the Public Services", a moment's rudimentary calculation ought to disabuse you of the notion that the government in any way expects you to "stump up for the whole damned party" yourself.

The estimates you provide for the Chancellor's disbursement of the funds levied by taxation, whilst colourful, are, in fairness, a little off the mark. Less than you seem to imagine is spent on "junkets for Bunterish lickspittles" and "dancing whores" whilst far more than you have accounted for is allocated to, for example, "that box-ticking façade of a university system."

A couple of technical points arising from direct queries

1. The reason we don't simply write "Muggins"on the envelope has to do with the vagaries of the postal system;

2. You can rest assured that "sucking the very marrow of those with nothing else to give" has never been considered as a practice because even if the Personal Allowance didn't render it irrelevant, the sheer medical logistics involved would make it financially unviable.

I trust this has helped. In the meantime, whilst I would not in any way wish to influence your decision one way or the other, I ought to point out that even if you did choose to "give the whole foul jamboree up and go and live in India" you would still owe us the money.

Please send it to us by Friday.

Yours sincerely,



HJL
Customer Relations"