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Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Grassow on BC
« Last post by Wanterkeelt on July 03, 2015, 11:54:08 PM »
Put it on my wantlist on Discogs.  Thanks.  Wonder how much this thing's gonna cost $$$.  Hopefully not too bad.

I guess +-30 + shipping since Grassow's single CD records on GS Productions are sold 9...
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Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Grassow on BC
« Last post by drone on on July 03, 2015, 04:29:08 PM »
Put it on my wantlist on Discogs.  Thanks.  Wonder how much this thing's gonna cost $$$.  Hopefully not too bad.
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Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Recording music without a computer
« Last post by LNerell on July 03, 2015, 10:51:33 AM »
I think for myself I would go the mixing desk route and use the computer as Forrest does, however it will require a major shuffling of gear.  I have worked at bring the audio production quality of my studio components up over the years and have reach its zenith all of which is focused on a 2 channel input daw system.  With a mixer Id want multi track recording capabilities which would mean more converters for example, so it will take quite bit of reconfiguring and solution thinking.

An analog mixer is going to add more grunge to your sound then any decent multi-channel converter will at this stage, most of them are pretty good these days I feel.

I just recently acquired a Soundcraft Ghost mixer and am having a go at using a mixer again instead of doing everything in the box. I have to say it's nice to have everything in front of you, but I still feel a bit compromised. I may still go back to running everything direct into the computer and using Logic as my mixer again. The main draw back going that route being you need a large interface, basically inputs for all your synths, as well as for your effects and outputs for those too. Also, you have to turn your computer on and boot up Logic if you want to work on anything.

Ok so here are a few things I would recommend and that you should be aware of if you are going to go the mixer route:

1. Get as many channels as you can afford. I have a 24 channel Ghost and a lot of gear, and I just don't have enough channels. I'm actually thinking about downsizing because of this.  :P :o ;D. Steve Roach has a 48 channel board in his studio and I can tell you he uses just about all of the channels.  If you have a lot of gear you'll need a lot of channels.

2. Get a board with as many aux sends as you can get. Stereo auxs are even better. My board has 8 auxs which is great but since the Ghost is an inline board and has basically 2 inputs not all the auxs go to the main input, some are dedicated to the secondary input which means they are not useful. I might in the future modify the board so that all the auxs are on the main channel but will have to wait. 

3. Be prepared to loose a lot of space in your studio. Boards take up a lot more room.

4. Boards require more cables, getting a board will more that double the amount of cables requiremented.
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Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Recording music without a computer
« Last post by Julio Di Benedetto on July 03, 2015, 08:09:30 AM »

Forrest do you use your mixer and FX just as a front end to the daw and mix in the daw or do you come back out and use the mixer to mix, so to speak.  Im using the old school model as best I know it where the tracks were laid down through the desk to tape, they were then pulled up across the console and "mixed" and then sent to 2 track tape ready for mastering.  Im curious as the lore of AD conversion stands its best not to convert back to analog once in the box.


Hi Julio,

I generally use the analog mixer at the front end to "wet" the signal while playing live before sending it into the DAW.  I then add some plugins to alter the signal before adjusting the volume within each channel and rendering it to a stereo mix within the DAW.  I prefer shaping my own "automated" mixing curves within the DAW over live mixing, because I can spend more time on individual subsections of a piece without having to remix the whole piece.

The only exception I've made to this approach is that when I record as Sans Serif, I often start with digital files that have already been processed or edited, then feed that into the analog mixer using outboard effects, with the results mostly being recorded in analog into a DAT in real-time.  I think that because of this, many of the Sans Serif pieces have more an improvisational flavor to them.

Forrest

Thanks for the insight into your process Forrest.....very interested in your San Serif approach, I could see that yielding all sorts of unexpected events and those sweet accidental moments.

Seren I think VS2480 still stands its ground today, perhaps its storage capacity is not up to current standards but in tandem with a computer or external drive it seems a very good studio solution with a small footprint.

I think for myself I would go the mixing desk route and use the computer as Forrest does, however it will require a major shuffling of gear.  I have worked at bring the audio production quality of my studio components up over the years and have reach its zenith all of which is focused on a 2 channel input daw system.  With a mixer Id want multi track recording capabilities which would mean more converters for example, so it will take quite bit of reconfiguring and solution thinking.
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Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Grassow on BC
« Last post by Wanterkeelt on July 03, 2015, 03:55:39 AM »
GS Productions will offer the box on Discogs, he told me "beginning of July", so I suppose in the next days.
Just go to the CD release page on Discogs and wait :)



Where can I order this grassow box from?  The labels site is in Russian and I don't see this box on the website at all.
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Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Recording music without a computer
« Last post by Seren on July 03, 2015, 03:32:29 AM »
I first saw the VS2480 in a second hand shop - I asked if it had had much attention. I was told that a lot of people had shown interest, but only about 3 of us seemed to know what we were doing with it.

I didn't sleep all night and was back to buy it first light next morning.......

If you think of it as a mixing desk, recording desk and multiple effects you get a sense of what it can do.

Like any of the good sized daws (24 - 32 tracks) it manages to put a whole studio into a small space....

It does a shed load of stuff I've never used - if you are wanting to bounce down from multiple tracks to stereo you can 'record' the mix you make in real time and play it back through the motorised faders.....

In the end the hard disc recorders are still computers - they are just designed and set up differently to the macs or pcs - designed as a development of the recording industry equipment, rather than an extension of the computer design into other areas....

The way things are going you will be able to do all this from a smart phone, camera, fridge, car etc. I do find the 'globalisation' of design a little depressing and hope the manufacturers keep this sort of equipment going long into the future, giving musicians real choice.
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Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Grassow on BC
« Last post by Poaalpina on July 03, 2015, 12:04:27 AM »
Quote
The labels site is in Russian
Click red cross.    :)



Quote
and I don't see this box on the website at all.
The box will be available for ordering in a few weeks.
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Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Grassow on BC
« Last post by drone on on July 02, 2015, 10:26:25 PM »
Where can I order this grassow box from?  The labels site is in Russian and I don't see this box on the website at all.
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Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Recording music without a computer
« Last post by ffcal on July 02, 2015, 07:29:03 PM »

Forrest do you use your mixer and FX just as a front end to the daw and mix in the daw or do you come back out and use the mixer to mix, so to speak.  Im using the old school model as best I know it where the tracks were laid down through the desk to tape, they were then pulled up across the console and "mixed" and then sent to 2 track tape ready for mastering.  Im curious as the lore of AD conversion stands its best not to convert back to analog once in the box.


Hi Julio,

I generally use the analog mixer at the front end to "wet" the signal while playing live before sending it into the DAW.  I then add some plugins to alter the signal before adjusting the volume within each channel and rendering it to a stereo mix within the DAW.  I prefer shaping my own "automated" mixing curves within the DAW over live mixing, because I can spend more time on individual subsections of a piece without having to remix the whole piece.

The only exception I've made to this approach is that when I record as Sans Serif, I often start with digital files that have already been processed or edited, then feed that into the analog mixer using outboard effects, with the results mostly being recorded in analog into a DAT in real-time.  I think that because of this, many of the Sans Serif pieces have more an improvisational flavor to them.

Forrest
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Music Gearheads Tech Talk / Re: Recording music without a computer
« Last post by Julio Di Benedetto on July 02, 2015, 04:09:05 PM »

 These days, I use a Mackie mixer with additional outboard effects before going into my laptop to record.  It adds an element of noise, I know, but I find it more interesting to use options from both worlds and combine them.

Forrest

Forrest do you use your mixer and FX just as a front end to the daw and mix in the daw or do you come back out and use the mixer to mix, so to speak.  Im using the old school model as best I know it where the tracks were laid down through the desk to tape, they were then pulled up across the console and "mixed" and then sent to 2 track tape ready for mastering.  Im curious as the lore of AD conversion stands its best not to convert back to analog once in the box.

Steve Roach uses the computer pretty much just as an audio recorder with some processing. 

I think most of the better stand alone multi-track recorders have been discontinued, most of the ones I see now are really extended field recorders. I know Mackie and Alesis made 24 track hard-disc recorders like this one, that you can pick up used really cheap now:

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/msd/5091967033.html

Of course the big daddy pro one is the IZ Technology Radar that is still being made today:

http://www.izcorp.com/


Thanks Loren for confirming Steve Roach's process....I do remember the Radar, and glad to hear they are still with us.  A nice piece of kit for sure.


Seren, appreciate the in depth suggestions as well as Gigi's working method!



I recall standing in front of the VS 2480 in a music store and thinking "omg" when it came out and having no clue what to do with....still intimidates me  ;D

What would be really great is a system similar to this Roland that could have your plugins, soft instruments et el installed and give some analog goodness, digital convenience and hands on connectivity.....does it exist?   
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