Recent Posts

Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 10
61
Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Any Genesis fans?
« Last post by drkappa on August 17, 2014, 01:33:52 AM »
People go on about Collins vs. Gabriel but Genesis was really Tony
Banks's band.  His keyboard playing was the heart of the Genesis
sound.  Like Paul, I too liked both eras, and followed the band from
the '70s to the '90s.  Yes I prefer the old stuff (Foxtrox, Selling
England by the Pound
) as well as the early Collins vocal era (Trick of
the Tail, Wind & Wuthering
).

It would have become boring had they just kept churning out the same
album.  The band lasted as long as it did because of the evolution.
Whether you hate the We Can't Dance stadium-rock era, you have to
admit and applaud their musical creativity and longevity.  Amongst the
pop-chart numbers there were still inventive Genesis tracks in the
classic mould.

Re. the `pish', being an older fan I didn't appreciate only having a
medley of old songs when they played at Wembley, just throwing it all
away.  If you're an old-style Genesis fan you should try to catch
Steve Hackett live in a small venue.  It's thrilling being just a few
feet from the maestro and see how he makes those distinctive sounds.
His band even plays Firth of Fifth with the full piano introduction,
as do an excellent tribute band G2, whom I've seen a few times.  While
many in the audience have grey hair, if they've any hair, it's great
to observe teenagers present (and comment on YouTube) 'discovering'
the '70s prog music and appreciating it.

Of late I've been listening to quite a bit of neo-prog (including Phil
Collins's son Simon who is a chip off the old block), and Steve Hackett's
Genesis Revisited II.

Peter Gabriel may have sold out to pop (So was my first CD--"It's a
Knockout" and there was the inventive Sledgehammer video), but PG has
promoted a lot of world music, bringing the diversity of its sounds
into various genres including pop and ambient.  His music has covered
a broad spectrum.  On stage he's still entertaining doing quirky things
like riding a bike.

62

I would like to add that I prefer ambient music by a person with no technical skills and superb creativity. In my area technical experts are the people doing TD jobs which consists assisting REAL artists when they reach technical difficulties. Both are necessary of course.

But don't underestimate the raw power of naivety, children are the most creative humans using divergent thinking and divergent thinking should be used plenty in arts.

I am in no way underestimating that. There is great stuff done through naivety. I love the naive happy accident just as much as a tool in the hands of a master. However I have also witnessed naivety turned easily to arrogance in the arts when someone finds out that they did not invent the wheel or that someone is actually better at something then they are.

The inherent problem of naivety is that it really only happens once. In the example of a child, their mind being open and divergent is not the same thing as them being skilled at something and able to communicate it successfully so others understand it.  A baby may be the smartest or most creative person in a room, but if all they can do is babble and drool, their brilliance may take time to be understood until they learn how to talk.

I am not one of those parents who tells my child he is good or worse yet, the best at everything he tries. As a good parent it is my job to let him know when he fails and teach him to do better. If I see that he is good or even gifted at something then it is my job to set him on the right path for his growth, challenge him to keep growing and even push him to reach his full potential in a given area.

In any school, be it a university or a person seeking a mentor or a guru, the job of the professor, mentor, teacher or guru is much the same. To find and unlock the inherent potential in a person and push them to reach it.

I think of a master musician like Ravi Shankar who devoted his life singularly to the pursuit of his art and craft equally. I can truly think of few musicians who ever lived that were better than him. It would be ridiculous and even disrespectful to put a sitar in the hands of a person who has never played one before and believe it to be equal or better than what a master can do. It would be a starting place, it may even be interesting, but it would not be what the master could coax out of it.

What we really want is a person who is a master, but one that can retain the beauty of child like wonder in what they do  ;D
63
Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Steve Roach, 'The Delicate Forever'
« Last post by Cosmic Fabric on August 16, 2014, 04:26:27 PM »

The reality is that there ARE experts in the audio field when it comes to gear and its use. There are experts at mixing and audio engineering. There are people who have spent years learning composition theory. There are people who are expert craftsmen at creating and shaping sounds. Best of all, all of these exist within our own genre.

I would like to add that I prefer ambient music by a person with no technical skills and superb creativity. In my area technical experts are the people doing TD jobs which consists assisting REAL artists when they reach technical difficulties. Both are necessary of course.

But don't underestimate the raw power of naivety, children are the most creative humans using divergent thinking and divergent thinking should be used plenty in arts.
64
Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Steve Roach, 'The Delicate Forever'
« Last post by Cosmic Fabric on August 16, 2014, 04:07:42 PM »
Gently wading back in here... :-[

Lest I be misinterpreted as attacking any one specific person or not...all I was pointing out with my previous post on low end and where it sits in certain songs hitherto being discussed here, I think that it is perfectly valid to like or dislike anything based on ones own personal taste. I like low end in my ambient music...Great!!! You don't Great!!! I do think the line gets crossed when a person makes presumptive statements about the music along the lines of "so and so must be loosing their hearing" "or "its all due to their switch from gear X to gear Y that said artists music now sucks".

Again, you can say, "I don't like the music now as much as I did before", you can even say that in your opinion you preferred when said artist used synth X, reverb A or mixer C.

However the statements here lately take on a tone which is more along the lines of, "The artist is making a BIG MISTAKE because they switched their gear, or workflow, or they are going in a different direction". Again, you may not like it as much. This is valid. Accusing them of going backwards or not knowing what they are doing or whatever based solely on your personal flavor taste profile is not alright. Its the artists decision to go in what ever musical direction they want, with what ever gear they want, in whatever studio that they want. If you like it or not, thats what you get to decide.

One other thing that seams to be popping up here often which is a very interesting blend of gearslutz meets audiophile discussion. In this arena of gear geakdom there are two schools of thought:

1. Good music can be made with any gear no mater how expensive, cheap, hard or soft.
2. It takes the highest end, cream of the crop gear to make it

In some ways, both are right, but it depends completely on who is wielding the tools. No more and no less. It can also be equal parts studied expertise or naive happy accident.

This brings me to my final point which is tolerance and respect of each other...probably not in the way you think though.

One thing internet culture has dumbed down is opinion vs expertise. (there are many interesting articles on the subject so google it). The crux is that "my opinion is just as valid as another persons years of study, use and expertise in a given subject."

The reality is that there ARE experts in the audio field when it comes to gear and its use. There are experts at mixing and audio engineering. There are people who have spent years learning composition theory. There are people who are expert craftsmen at creating and shaping sounds. Best of all, all of these exist within our own genre.

You would be wise to consider their opinions with an appropriate weight. Not that one never challenges or questions ones elders or sages in any given area, but a wise person always gives them respect and takes what they have to say to heart. A fool does not.

Example if someone has used high end gear gives a new person advice on how to do things better, the new person would do well to listen and consider what is being said. The key here is that the person with the experience should give the new person advice on how to succeed first with what they already have, and only suggest upping their gear if said gear is wrong for them or is causing them to hit a wall. This is the same for compositional advice or whatever. Its the old adage that before you break the rules, you should learn them or at the very least be aware of them and respect them.

Ok...I lied, one final point which rears its head every few years is "what is ambient music anyway?" Well in this day and age, good luck describing it and pigeon holing it. Some of it is deep and droney with little reverb or tonal movement. Some of it has "gasp" a melody played by "gasp" a real instrument...often which may be "gasp" acoustic in nature. Some of it is tribal with ethnic hand played drums. Some of it uses electronic programed beats. Some of it is bathed in more reverb than the deepest reaches of the galaxy. Some of it is lo-fi, some hi-fi. Some has analog sequencers. Some has string sections and choirs.

Its ALL various facets of what we call space music or ambient or whatever.

Peace!
PV


I really enjoyed reading your post. Congratulations.
65
Gently wading back in here... :-[

Lest I be misinterpreted as attacking any one specific person or not...all I was pointing out with my previous post on low end and where it sits in certain songs hitherto being discussed here, I think that it is perfectly valid to like or dislike anything based on ones own personal taste. I like low end in my ambient music...Great!!! You don't Great!!! I do think the line gets crossed when a person makes presumptive statements about the music along the lines of "so and so must be loosing their hearing" "or "its all due to their switch from gear X to gear Y that said artists music now sucks".

Again, you can say, "I don't like the music now as much as I did before", you can even say that in your opinion you preferred when said artist used synth X, reverb A or mixer C.

However the statements here lately take on a tone which is more along the lines of, "The artist is making a BIG MISTAKE because they switched their gear, or workflow, or they are going in a different direction". Again, you may not like it as much. This is valid. Accusing them of going backwards or not knowing what they are doing or whatever based solely on your personal flavor taste profile is not alright. Its the artists decision to go in what ever musical direction they want, with what ever gear they want, in whatever studio that they want. If you like it or not, thats what you get to decide.

One other thing that seams to be popping up here often which is a very interesting blend of gearslutz meets audiophile discussion. In this arena of gear geakdom there are two schools of thought:

1. Good music can be made with any gear no mater how expensive, cheap, hard or soft.
2. It takes the highest end, cream of the crop gear to make it

In some ways, both are right, but it depends completely on who is wielding the tools. No more and no less. It can also be equal parts studied expertise or naive happy accident.

This brings me to my final point which is tolerance and respect of each other...probably not in the way you think though.

One thing internet culture has dumbed down is opinion vs expertise. (there are many interesting articles on the subject so google it). The crux is that "my opinion is just as valid as another persons years of study, use and expertise in a given subject."

The reality is that there ARE experts in the audio field when it comes to gear and its use. There are experts at mixing and audio engineering. There are people who have spent years learning composition theory. There are people who are expert craftsmen at creating and shaping sounds. Best of all, all of these exist within our own genre.

You would be wise to consider their opinions with an appropriate weight. Not that one never challenges or questions ones elders or sages in any given area, but a wise person always gives them respect and takes what they have to say to heart. A fool does not.

Example if someone has used high end gear gives a new person advice on how to do things better, the new person would do well to listen and consider what is being said. The key here is that the person with the experience should give the new person advice on how to succeed first with what they already have, and only suggest upping their gear if said gear is wrong for them or is causing them to hit a wall. This is the same for compositional advice or whatever. Its the old adage that before you break the rules, you should learn them or at the very least be aware of them and respect them.

Ok...I lied, one final point which rears its head every few years is "what is ambient music anyway?" Well in this day and age, good luck describing it and pigeon holing it. Some of it is deep and droney with little reverb or tonal movement. Some of it has "gasp" a melody played by "gasp" a real instrument...often which may be "gasp" acoustic in nature. Some of it is tribal with ethnic hand played drums. Some of it uses electronic programed beats. Some of it is bathed in more reverb than the deepest reaches of the galaxy. Some of it is lo-fi, some hi-fi. Some has analog sequencers. Some has string sections and choirs.

Its ALL various facets of what we call space music or ambient or whatever.

Peace!
PV

 

66
Everything and Nothing / Re: The funniest Man that ever lived is Gone!
« Last post by phobos on August 16, 2014, 03:34:38 PM »
A truly unique and funny guy. Very sad news indeed.
67
Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Steve Roach, 'The Delicate Forever'
« Last post by Ekstasis on August 16, 2014, 02:30:32 PM »

well there is different religions there is people who believe in external/physical gear, but there is also another religion and this unlimited belief in this "magic box" ,  and with this "magic box" you can basically create anything you can imagine , it is basically your own imagination that set the limit of what this "magic box" can do.
 



That and cracked plugins, it's so easy to recommend software...........


Also... there is so many software plugin that claim to sound like a hardware unit when they in reality sound like night and day, they basically use it as "propaganda" to sell an "illusion " that if you "buy" this software you will sound exactly like that hardware all in "the box" and only for for 20 dollars.  Me growing up  readying studio magazines I did read this all the time,  I thought why pay 2000 dollars when I can pay 20 dollars and sound the same, there is an whole generation who have never tried external gear to use as "reference"  but only been using "in the box" tools.
So a lot of people live in the illusion when using for instance an SEM V - Arturia synth, that it sound like the real thing when in reality they do not have anything in common in reality, Arturia  is a good example,  they use trademarks like "moog" to sell illusions to people.  There is an ocean of plugins that is using trademarks of hardware units to sell as plugin..

There is of course good examples of good plugins also..but in almost all cases the hardware version have a slight edge if not a very big edge.. I use plugins, when they sound good  I have nothing against to use them.
 
68
Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Steve Roach, 'The Delicate Forever'
« Last post by Cosmic Fabric on August 16, 2014, 02:19:08 PM »

well there is different religions there is people who believe in external/physical gear, but there is also another religion and this unlimited belief in this "magic box" ,  and with this "magic box" you can basically create anything you can imagine , it is basically your own imagination that set the limit of what this "magic box" can do.
 



That and cracked plugins, it's so easy to recommend software...........
69
Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Steve Roach, 'The Delicate Forever'
« Last post by Ekstasis on August 16, 2014, 02:12:38 PM »
well there is different religions there is people who believe in external/physical gear, but there is also another religion and this unlimited belief in this "magic box" ,  and with this "magic box" you can basically create anything you can imagine , it is basically your own imagination that set the limit of what this "magic box" can do.  I was a believer of this religion before, since I thought external gear was pretty much obsolete, also the progression was so fast in the Computer world.   I think there is a big majority of people who live in this illusion all you need is really this magic box to realize your imagination.. Well I am hear to tell you, that no the Magic box AKA PC/MAC can't create anything you imagine, there is "things"  and musical languages and colours that this magic box can't really replicate, there for the need for external gear does still exist.  in theory the this "magic box" should be able to create anything, but this is in a future probably beyond our time (considering how slow Intel is progressing these days).

70
Other Ambient (and related) Music / Re: Steve Roach, 'The Delicate Forever'
« Last post by Cosmic Fabric on August 16, 2014, 01:44:58 PM »
'Ekstasis' said:
Quote
if it is any genre that gear MATTER it is ambient, since all it is about is ear candy,

Somewhat off-topic from the 'debate', but I felt I had to comment on this one.
Where do you think composition comes into play ?, same for structure and dynamics in a track ? If it was all about beautiful sounding patches and exquisite reverberations, why bother trying to do anything more than play some pretty chords ? 
Any old-timers here remember 'The Universe' patch on the Korg M1 ? All you had to do was noodle around in a pentatonic minor scale and everything sounded great - but it also sounded the same as anyone else doing the same thing...

Speaking of old-timers (like myself, increasingly), it's worth bearing in mind that they may have considerable years of being musicians under their belts and they may not all be deaf either :)

There's a lot more to it than mere 'ear candy' in my view. In order to create full finished tracks is a step beyond that requires considerably more in terms of application and attention to detail.

Sure, but how can you do a warm Juno-60 pad without a Juno-60? A Korg Z1 DSP FX sounds without a Z1? Oberheim sounds, that everyone wants to copy from Steve Roach?

These tools have to be present in the first place to composition and all the beautiful things that happen next. So yeah you need these ear candy devices. Unless you are using some obscure methods and I'm not talking about softsynths :) which is fine by me, but I don't mind sounding like everyone else, originality is a joke these days.

Just check Steve Roach studio or Robert Rich's and they don't have an empty studio, correct?
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 10