Author Topic: Intel vs AMD DAW  (Read 11442 times)

deepspace

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Intel vs AMD DAW
« on: October 30, 2008, 04:15:36 AM »
Has anyone here had experiece with both Intel and AMD cpus in a DAW?
I have an AMD chip and am frustrated with how quickly it gets maxed out.  AMD just doesn't seem to be suited to sound.

I'm thinking of upgrading and going back to an Intel chip, probably a quad core.  And no, I'm not thinking of going mac. ;)
Any happy intel users here?  Any suggestions?

Also, does anyone know about the benefits of dual versus quad core for DAWs?


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APK

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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2008, 06:19:35 AM »
This Sound On Sound article has some useful info
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan08/articles/pcmusician_0108.htm

I use a core two duo on my daw. Its excellent. I use Reaper.
I think some issues of multiple cores have to do with how well the daw makes use of them.
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Ekstasis

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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2008, 10:48:10 AM »
Intel will release the new CORE I7 in 5 days, it is said to be up to 50% faster then the current core 2 duo...

I am planning to buy this system and a lot of ram memory... in theory I got space for 16GB DDR3, and considering all software I use I would need so much...just wish it did exist 4GB modules for DDR3...




LNerell

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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2008, 11:21:52 AM »
I'm thinking of upgrading and going back to an Intel chip, probably a quad core.  And no, I'm not thinking of going mac. ;)

But Mac is Intel now.  ;D
Take care.

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mgriffin

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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2008, 11:29:58 AM »
A great argument could be made for buying an Intel Mac, installing XP on it, and dual booting between XP and OSX.  You could use XP while you get comfortable with OSX and eventually you could reach full OSX enlightenment and recommend to people on internet forums that they're crazy for buying a new Windows box!
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LNerell

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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2008, 12:15:44 PM »
Or one could argue that having XP and OSX on one system, by moving back and forth you can use the best of both worlds as needed.
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deepspace

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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2008, 08:01:39 PM »
hahaha!  Yes Mike, you are probably right.  It's just hard to make the switch- I'm just so used to PC and so many (present company excluded I HOPE) mac users are just so.........how can I put this......
let me put it this way: they think Photoshop is a game, and that golf online would be a brilliant idea, and their idea of great entertainment is putting up slideshows of themselves on holiday in the bahamas at dinner parties.  ;)  I don't know, maybe the 'cool' of apple's advertising irks me.  Like the company spends so much time advertising to cafe frequenting teenagers who listen to Fergie, that I'd rather not be involved.  I'd rather have my daggy pc.


That aside, I recognise that I'm just being silly and probably annoying to mac users reading this, who are now probably twitching with anger and mouthing obscenities at their spit-covered screen.

I do think the Intel Mac is a good idea.  However, I won't be convinced that XP on a Mac would run the latest game at 60fps+ until I see it, as that is something I use my computer for too (What? Is that the sound of laughing?).

Maybe I need two computers....argh.


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mgriffin

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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2008, 09:54:30 PM »
Very often the fastest computer in a given class to run Windows, is an Intel Mac.  At least this is true of the MacBook Pro versus other Windows laptops -- and I'm talking about tests by a PC-centric web site, not a Mac testing site.  Now, for gaming it might be a different story because the very hottest cutting-edge video cards, the kind that cost as much by themselves as a computer, are usually available for PC only at first.  So, a $4000 Alienware or something will always beat a $4000 Mac Pro for gaming, due to the video cards available for it.
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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2008, 01:36:00 PM »
Lest anyone should think that only Apple takes an annoying approach to marketing and platform evangelism, I introduce you to Exhibit A.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/31/microsoft-placing-im-a-pc-recording-booths-outside-apple-stor/
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mgriffin

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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2008, 01:38:55 PM »
Exhibit B



Exhibit C



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deepspace

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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2008, 04:24:01 PM »
I don't condone Microsoft's advertising approach either, BUT at least they haven't just hired a cute guy and expect us to make our choice based on the fact that one guy is young and 'good looking' and the other guy is portly, older and a dag, like the mac ads.

Microsoft are a very manipulative company, we're all aware of that.  But their form of manipulation in these videos is aimed at a more appropriate part of the market ie. the ones buying the computers, not having the computers bought for them (ie. kids).  They're still manipulating us, but It's less irresponsible.  I can't handle the thought of young kids seeing *those* mac ads and going "ok, you need to be good looking and young to be accepted" etc.  It happens too much in society and big companies should be far more responsible.  At least the microsoft ads don't do damaging stereotypes.  They're still quite tacky ads, but there you are.  Anyway, I'm getting off topic here. :)

I'll have to hunt around for some exhibits now too.  Oh dear, I can feel a mac/pc war starting again.  Groan.

« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 04:34:33 PM by deepspace »
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LNerell

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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2008, 10:51:49 AM »
I don't condone Microsoft's advertising approach either, BUT at least they haven't just hired a cute guy and expect us to make our choice based on the fact that one guy is young and 'good looking' and the other guy is portly, older and a dag, like the mac ads.

For the record I didn't buy a mac because Apple has some young 'good looking' guy (that guy is good looking?) as a mac. I bought one because for what it does and how it works. Also that older 'dag' guy (whatever that means) is a fairly well known comic here in the states. He's been on a few TV shows (The Daily Show for one) and is known for playing those kinds of characters. Also, neither Microsoft or Apple "hired" those guys for their ads, they hired ad agencies who made the ads and then hired the talent.

Quote from: deepspace
It's just hard to make the switch- I'm just so used to PC and so many (present company excluded I HOPE) mac users are just so.........how can I put this...... let me put it this way: they think Photoshop is a game, and that golf online would be a brilliant idea, and their idea of great entertainment is putting up slideshows of themselves on holiday in the bahamas at dinner parties.

Isn't this basically the same thing that you were complaining about Apple's ad campaign above? You are making a judgment on a computer based upon who you perceive mac users are and not upon what the computer can do. I think its fine to use a PC for anything you want if it works for you, but your smugness towards a product is something you might want to reconsider.
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deepspace

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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2008, 10:50:09 PM »


For the record I didn't buy a mac because Apple has some young 'good looking' guy (that guy is good looking?) as a mac. I bought one because for what it does and how it works. Also that older 'dag' guy (whatever that means) is a fairly well known comic here in the states. He's been on a few TV shows (The Daily Show for one) and is known for playing those kinds of characters. Also, neither Microsoft or Apple "hired" those guys for their ads, they hired ad agencies who made the ads and then hired the talent.


Of course, there is no reason you would have bought your computer because of an ad.  But younger more impressionable folk would- and not even directly because of the ad but because of the cultural ideology that the ads create.  Mac=hip PC=not.
Apple ads in general are like McDonald ads- they're just so lightweight and fashion oriented. 

And you say agencies made the ads- Yes, agencies made the ads, according to whatever Microsoft or Apple wanted.   

My comment about mac users and online golf was very much like a Mac ad in retrospect wasn't it!  General, facile and largely wrong.  Spot on there.  I think I got defensive.  Having said that, I did dismiss what I said in that email, as me having a bit of a rant.

Anyway, I'm not going to sit here and defend Microsoft ads.  I was just talking about how I don't like Apple's approach to advertising.  I don't really believe that their computers are as transient as their advertising. 

« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 02:03:18 AM by deepspace »
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darkenedsoul

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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2008, 06:41:32 PM »
Personally I think Windows/Intel is better. Live runs on both Mac and PC's. Not sure how it handles dual cores and Live personally.  I used to be a big(ger) AMD fan for quite some time, i.e. cheaper, comparable speed-wise, etc...but it just seems WinTel does it better together IMHO. Running 2 dual core systems, both WinTel and E6850 oc'd to 3.6Ghz and E8400 oc'd to about 3.4Ghz. Both run nice and stable. Former runs XP Pro SP3 and 4Gb mem (sees 3.5 in XP, 4Gb in Vista 64 bit ultimate which also has Live 7.1.10 on them both) and other runs 2Gb memory. Raid configurations in both (0 for DAW for performance, 1 for main desktop). I could build comparable system now (a year later) for several hundred $ cheaper than last year and a few hundred cheaper than mar. 08 for them both....but at least I waited awhile on putting both together and had the money on-hand for both builds. I prefer to buid my own for a) money savings and b) components I can pick/choose to what I want.

Can you do that in the Mac? I don't think you have that much flexibility.

Mike

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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2008, 10:00:53 AM »
Personally I think Windows/Intel is better.

Fair enough... but do you say this based on familiarity with both platforms, or are you just saying Windows/Intel is better because you've never used a modern OSX/Intel Mac for any length of time?

Not being a smart-ass here, but in my experience those who express a strong preference for Windows are almost without exception people who haven't spent more than 2 minutes using a Mac in the last decade.  The people I know who have been exposed to both platforms and understand them both, without exception prefer Apple and MacOS.  I don't say this as a way of saying "see, you're wrong," but as a way of saying to those who really haven't investigated the platform that they should consider there might be something they're missing.



Can you do that in the Mac? I don't think you have that much flexibility.

Building machines from scratch?  No, Apple's whole plan is that you buy a machine entirely designed by Apple, and since the motherboard and the CPU and the video card and the RAM and the OS are all standard Apple stuff, the system just works without any BIOS tweaks or firmware flashes or other hacks.

If you're a hobbyist who just likes that kind of "under the hood" stuff, there's nothing wrong with that.  Some people like American muscle cars because it's so easy to get under the hood and play around... but recommending a '67 Camaro to someone who just wants a reliable commuter car is a bad recommendation, and likewise recommending a hot-rodded, self-built, tweaked and overclocked PC to a person who wants a reliable tool for getting their work done, is a poor recommendation.

But again, for those individuals who love tweaking and manipulating, and seeing how far you can overclock your liquid-cooled CPU without frying it, then for sure the Windows/Intel platform is the best way to go.
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einstein36

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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2008, 12:07:34 PM »
I am going to be quite frank here...but since I too use primarly a PC custom made desktop for my music recording since I use Sonar for many years around..I too ran across the AMD finally hit it's threshold and my music started dropping here and there and finally took a serious look at intel and it's performace....I say go for an intel but definitley NOT the latest cpu or motherboards since they JUST came out and let them work out the bugs and stability issues.
I have read too many issues, problems people are having with the quad core configurations, maybe not all, but enough for me to go core 2 duo only at this point and I have never been happier....been very stable for me and no issues what so ever.....
but definitely go with a custom made desktop if you decide to upgrade....OEM's just limit and I think hinder the performace on their desktops....

Has anyone here had experiece with both Intel and AMD cpus in a DAW?
I have an AMD chip and am frustrated with how quickly it gets maxed out.  AMD just doesn't seem to be suited to sound.

I'm thinking of upgrading and going back to an Intel chip, probably a quad core.  And no, I'm not thinking of going mac. ;)
Any happy intel users here?  Any suggestions?

Also, does anyone know about the benefits of dual versus quad core for DAWs?



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einstein36

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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2008, 12:19:44 PM »
since I am a tech support person who has extensively worked with both pc and mac platforms, it's just the little things about the way apple does things that I prefer pcs...:)


Personally I think Windows/Intel is better.

Fair enough... but do you say this based on familiarity with both platforms, or are you just saying Windows/Intel is better because you've never used a modern OSX/Intel Mac for any length of time?

Not being a smart-ass here, but in my experience those who express a strong preference for Windows are almost without exception people who haven't spent more than 2 minutes using a Mac in the last decade.  The people I know who have been exposed to both platforms and understand them both, without exception prefer Apple and MacOS.  I don't say this as a way of saying "see, you're wrong," but as a way of saying to those who really haven't investigated the platform that they should consider there might be something they're missing.



Can you do that in the Mac? I don't think you have that much flexibility.

Building machines from scratch?  No, Apple's whole plan is that you buy a machine entirely designed by Apple, and since the motherboard and the CPU and the video card and the RAM and the OS are all standard Apple stuff, the system just works without any BIOS tweaks or firmware flashes or other hacks.

If you're a hobbyist who just likes that kind of "under the hood" stuff, there's nothing wrong with that.  Some people like American muscle cars because it's so easy to get under the hood and play around... but recommending a '67 Camaro to someone who just wants a reliable commuter car is a bad recommendation, and likewise recommending a hot-rodded, self-built, tweaked and overclocked PC to a person who wants a reliable tool for getting their work done, is a poor recommendation.

But again, for those individuals who love tweaking and manipulating, and seeing how far you can overclock your liquid-cooled CPU without frying it, then for sure the Windows/Intel platform is the best way to go.
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darkenedsoul

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Re: Intel vs AMD DAW
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2008, 06:47:05 AM »
My buddy has a MBPro and it's cool. I know it has Unix under the hood. I personally haven't used one much also. I was though seriously considering the MBPro before I went with an HP BTO 17" WS laptop core 2 duo w/2 gig fastest memory for it. Got a decent deal as I found a coupon online to get another $180 off the price! It pays to search more some times!

I like the interface on the MAC's and wish Windows had something similar built into it vs a 3rd party product. I have windowblinds but am not running it now for quite some time. I'm behind a ways on whatever is the latest (I think I had 4.5). I think the MAC's are better now with the intel CPU's in them though. And they are coming along nicely with addition of quads into them now too.

But for me switching to it would require probably some significant investment in software for it which is a bit of  a hit to the wallet. At least I could go with Ableton Live on it and get the updates for Native Instruments (would cost me to change to those versions now I think).

With regards to quads I almost went with one but decided not to. Not due to any issues people may have had, I just couldn't justify $1k for a 3Ghz quad extreme or >$500 for non-extreme version! The newer quads have some issues, the lower end one(s) don't have as high a mulitplier for one thing and something else slipping my mind. I am surprised to see how much the new E8xxx and associated ones have dropped in the past 7 months.


Personally I think Windows/Intel is better.

Fair enough... but do you say this based on familiarity with both platforms, or are you just saying Windows/Intel is better because you've never used a modern OSX/Intel Mac for any length of time?

Not being a smart-ass here, but in my experience those who express a strong preference for Windows are almost without exception people who haven't spent more than 2 minutes using a Mac in the last decade.  The people I know who have been exposed to both platforms and understand them both, without exception prefer Apple and MacOS.  I don't say this as a way of saying "see, you're wrong," but as a way of saying to those who really haven't investigated the platform that they should consider there might be something they're missing.



Can you do that in the Mac? I don't think you have that much flexibility.

Building machines from scratch?  No, Apple's whole plan is that you buy a machine entirely designed by Apple, and since the motherboard and the CPU and the video card and the RAM and the OS are all standard Apple stuff, the system just works without any BIOS tweaks or firmware flashes or other hacks.

If you're a hobbyist who just likes that kind of "under the hood" stuff, there's nothing wrong with that.  Some people like American muscle cars because it's so easy to get under the hood and play around... but recommending a '67 Camaro to someone who just wants a reliable commuter car is a bad recommendation, and likewise recommending a hot-rodded, self-built, tweaked and overclocked PC to a person who wants a reliable tool for getting their work done, is a poor recommendation.

But again, for those individuals who love tweaking and manipulating, and seeing how far you can overclock your liquid-cooled CPU without frying it, then for sure the Windows/Intel platform is the best way to go.