Author Topic: The Black Hole Reverb  (Read 45877 times)

APK

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2009, 05:46:34 AM »
I see it's based on the Reaktor Space Master ensemble ... which I use a lot. It's excellent for super long reverbs.

I will certainly have to try this Redline Reverb myself.
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Ekstasis

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2009, 06:09:34 AM »
It is good if you seek a "warm" reverb, but in my opinion, this works best only with a certain kind of sounds, if you want that "warm feel"
If you want the "fresh" and crystal clear sound of Lexicon this might not be the best... atleast not what I have heard so far...
Even though it is said to be based on Lexicon sound....I am not sure I agree..

MarkM

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2009, 06:54:38 AM »
As far as the Lexicon Pantheon LE plug-in, I am not very satisfied with it.  There is something about its sound that just doesn't suit me.  However, I love Reaktor's Spacemaster:  very lush and highly flexible.

For the money, I am pleased with my Lexicon MPX 500.  It suits me fine.  It is a decent reverb for the price.  It replaced an Alesis Midiverb 4 which had a very harsh sounding reverb.

Ekstasis

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2009, 06:59:39 AM »
Lexicon Pantheon is a joke I must say, it sounds really crap, I think it destroys Lexicons trademark when they release such crap.

I still wish the Redline Reverb was more clean sounding and less "grainy". However this kind of grainy sound work excellent for some sounds though...
I really like the Waterfall reverbs (s)

LNerell

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2009, 09:16:56 AM »
Here's my reverb stash:



From top to bottom, TC Electronics Reverb 4000, Sony R7, Roland SRV-330, and my latest but oldest reverb unit, a 24 year old Ursa Major Star Gate 323.
Take care.

- Loren Nerell

Ekstasis

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #45 on: April 16, 2009, 09:55:46 AM »
Nice rack :)

Myself is saving up for the H8000FW and after that the PCM96 :)


Campus Stellae

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2009, 12:20:20 AM »
After spending 5 years with my Lexicon PCM80 and PCM90 I can describe them as “warm” and “unique” sounding but not at all crystal clear! The hiss is evident and sometimes unbearable, especially if I think about their price class. The TC M3000 reverb is crystal clear, and the TC4000 is even better. I’d say astonishing. I cannot talk about the virtual FX, as I use only hardware machines. Here is my FX rack. The Eventide reverbs are transparent and natural, in a class of their own.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 12:25:21 AM by Campus Stellae »

mgriffin

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2009, 08:00:31 AM »
I agree -- the TC digital reverbs are crystal clear, but the Lexicon digital reverbs are the opposite of crystal clear -- colored, warm, cloudy, even muddy.
[ Mike Griffin, Hypnos Recordings ] email mg (at) hypnos.com | http://hypnos.com | http://twitter.com/mgsoundvisions

Paul Vnuk (Ma Ja Le)

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2009, 09:50:04 AM »
Nice set up! I can't wait to hear how your music is evolving with them.

I have been researching verbs a lot since this thread started a while ago, and an H8000FW is indeed my next purchase and a PCM96 Surround will be close behind. I will be selling my Eclipse, have sold my M-3000 and will probably never rely on plug-in verbs much again. I also still have 2 Wedges for live and back-up.

Paul


PS Loren I love your set up. I regret selling my 330 years ago. That box has a couple really nice long smooth verbs. I was also curious how do you still like/use the vintage Roland Flanger?
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Campus Stellae

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2009, 10:08:21 AM »
hello Paul! A new cd will be released in may by Glacial Movements, is a collaboration with a guitarist, Enrico Coniglio. It is entitled "Cloudlands" and the duo's name is AquaDorsa. You'll be surprised! As for the new setup, well, we could use it for the sequel to "Distance to Zero", if you agree...

LNerell

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2009, 10:56:54 PM »
Loren I love your set up. I regret selling my 330 years ago. That box has a couple really nice long smooth verbs. I was also curious how do you still like/use the vintage Roland Flanger?

Yeah the 330 is pretty nice for what it is, I like the simulated 3D effects built into it. The Roland Flanger is killer, I haven't been using it much of late but its great when I need the ultimate flanger sound.
Take care.

- Loren Nerell

Ekstasis

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2009, 02:14:57 PM »
Still waiting to hear some professional opinion about the Redline Reverb.
I think I like it more now...I might use it in future... but still unsure how it compares with the impulse reverbs.

Ekstasis

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2009, 01:14:51 PM »
Another new reverb, that I have heard a lot of good things about, I hope it is not just hype...
I will try it later tonight I think.

http://www.2caudio.com/products/aether/index.html

APK

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2009, 01:37:48 PM »
Redline sounds pretty much the same as reaktor's SpaceMaster, which is good. It is based on the same algorithm, so no surprise.

It would be interesting to know the stats on just how few good reverb algorithms there are ... and how many software/hardware units are in fact using the same ones ... simply with a new user interface. I'm convinced you can sell a relatively poor core algorithm if you re-package it with some shiny new graphics, big antique knobs, and a load of promotional verbiage about how clean and revolutionary it is, and how many "professional" presets it comes with  :D

I think Aether beats Redline. Its one of the very best, especially in the realm of long reverbs.
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Ekstasis

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2009, 02:49:18 PM »
I have now tried for about 20 minutes, very impressive sound indeed by far the best non-convultional reverb I have tried.  Redline sounds very bad in comparison.  Perfect for creating big flowing spaces.

Paul Vnuk (Ma Ja Le)

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2009, 09:06:28 PM »
Well I can now say unequivocally to my ears, while the Black Hole preset on the H8000FW is cool in its own way, the Lexicon PCM 96 totally blows it out of the water. The Verbs on the 96 are pure Lexicon, but totally hiss free...and the 1st time I have heard a totally smooth, yet engulfing 180 second (yes thats second not millisecond) decay...holy crap!

For multi-fx though the H8000 wins.

XJ
"I liken good ambient to good poetry ... enjoyable, often powerful, and usually unpopular" APK

Ekstasis

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #56 on: June 06, 2009, 07:36:48 AM »
Interesting what do you have to say to the people who claim the oppsosite ?

I think Oophoi said the Eventide reverbs are way better.
Anyway, with time I hope I hope I am able to buy bought.

Paul Vnuk (Ma Ja Le)

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #57 on: June 07, 2009, 07:46:33 AM »
Do just like to disagree?  ::)

Anyway, let me clarify a few things for you so as not to be misunderstood. I actually do not care which has the better reverb on a personal level, I ave no brand loyalty or expectations or whatever, I am just telling you 1st and foremost what I have experienced in my own studio with both of these boxes...not impulses or someone's posted tests and files on the internet.

The PCM 96 is ultra smooth and silky, it is the 1st reverb where I can run it 100% wet and it sounds amazing, yet does not destroy the original source or sound like it is in a tin can. This unit is not comparable to the 91 or 81, it is a new beast, and while it has that signature sound, Campus was right in his post, the older Lexi's do have a fair bit of noise when pushed. This unit does not.
It is very clean, especially when run in digital mode (connected to digital I/O). I have not heard reverbs this good...ever. That is just me.

The H8000FW is also equally as awesome, but in a different way. It is much more effecty. I would go so far to say that it very well may be the best multi-fx sound design tool ever made. Its reverbs too are awesome, they are on par with TC, they are on the TC cleaner side of the scale. What makes the black hole verb cool is that it is made up of complex effects processes, not just reverb. The reverbs in this unit, while good still are not quite as awesome as the Lexicon. I am not saying they suck or are sub par or anything, just that to my ears and mixing, the lexicon is better at pure big reverbs.

Why is that? Well the Lexicon is 1st and foremost...a reverb, yes it has some multi-fx that the H8000FW has, but it is a verb unit.
The H8000FW's reason for being is that it is a sound design, alien, twisted multiple effects box that does pitching, looping, delay and such like no other box out there.

Both units are amazing. But if someone asked my which to buy, it would come down squarely on you own needs and desires.
Do want the current market creme de la creme of Reverb which can also do some multi-fx if you need, or do you want the monster multi-fx device which can also do some decent reverb.

Now the H8000's reverb is light years ahead of anything sub $1000 on the market, but it is still no Bricasti or Lexicon or even system 6000 for that matter.

Now if you still want the power of public opinion I offer you this:

I re-read this thread and to paraphrase what I heard is that: Many people do like and use Eventide Reverbs and that they are indeed close to or on par with many lexicon verbs. The H8000 is a special box that is unique! It is cleaner than the PCM 81/91 series, if you were deciding between an H7600/8000FW and one of those older lexicon units I would steer you toward the Eventide without delay or remorse.

Next...go to any pro audio forum on the internet and search PCM 96 and H8000FW. What you will find 90% of the time is that when folks are endlessly debating the "Ultimate Reverb Dream" it comes down to 2 units and 2 units only...Lexicon PCM 96 and Bricasti. No one mentiones the Eventide, TC, Kurzweil or anyhthing else, it is these 2 units with evangelists on both sides.

Now again, talk multi effects and you will find many debates over the TC system 6000, Kurzweil...I forget the name, and the Eventide boxes, with the H8000 usually edging to the top.


So how does this relate to all of this? I would advise you to make up your own mind once you can hear all of your options preferably in person. If you cannot then you need to seek the advice of peers and elders (not age wise, but folks who are actually working day to day in the real world of recording...professionals). Why? well an opinion becomes more valid based on day in and day out experience. Maybe it will work for you, maybe not.

Paul
"I liken good ambient to good poetry ... enjoyable, often powerful, and usually unpopular" APK

Ekstasis

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #58 on: June 07, 2009, 08:01:06 AM »
Thanks a lot for writing this, it feels like a good review of the boxes...and I got some idea...

It would be very nice if you could maybe record some audio samples so we can hear the difference between the lexicon pcm 96 and h8000fw reverb
so we actually can HEAR what you are talking about it, would be very interesting for sure, especially since I am slowly saving up money for the H8000FW

I still think I will save up for the Eventide first, cause you can do a lot more with it...then the Lexicon.

The Bricasti reverb I must have underrated  A LOT ..I had no idea it was that good...that it was comparable with Lexicon...


Paul Vnuk (Ma Ja Le)

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Re: The Black Hole Reverb
« Reply #59 on: June 08, 2009, 12:01:17 PM »
Spent yesterday just playing and getting familiar with the H8000FW, and there are some truly awe inspiring things this unit can do...its kind of like Willy Wonkas Chocalate factory...if you can dream it and imagine it you can probably build it.

Anyway after digging into the verbs more they are cool but in a very different way as I mentioned than most lexicon boxes. I would use the word aggressive, kind of harder edged, more metalic, but still equally cool.

Think of Lexicon as a good Cabernet and the Eventide as a good crisp chilled summer Chardonnay.

PV
"I liken good ambient to good poetry ... enjoyable, often powerful, and usually unpopular" APK