Author Topic: CD-R Deterioration  (Read 42160 times)

zzzone.net

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2008, 04:35:15 AM »
It's there, Jim.

You didn't see your own name?

dBpoweramp put your name instead of "Rigel Orionis" as the folder name.

Look again.

So much for karma.
using the name "jim brenholts" is enough to ruin your kharma for at least the next year. that is why i use a recording alias.

Karma correction has been implemented at your request, sir.

I consider you the boss of your own music.

I clicked on the questionable folder name and took the trouble to type in Rigel Orionis.

I feel much better now, and I know you do too.

jim brenholts

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2008, 03:47:20 PM »
It's there, Jim.

You didn't see your own name?

dBpoweramp put your name instead of "Rigel Orionis" as the folder name.

Look again.

So much for karma.
using the name "jim brenholts" is enough to ruin your kharma for at least the next year. that is why i use a recording alias.

Karma correction has been implemented at your request, sir.

I consider you the boss of your own music.

I clicked on the questionable folder name and took the trouble to type in Rigel Orionis.

I feel much better now, and I know you do too.
;D 8) ;) :D
all the best and God bless
jim
www.rigelorionis.com

zzzone.net

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2008, 10:57:07 AM »
I got an email from another person that informed me that his copy of "Blind Cinema" had gone to pot also.

zzzone.net

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2008, 08:15:39 AM »
Yet another chapter in this super fascinating thread:

A CD-R this morning will not allow the last track to be read: Deep Chill Network - Dreams 4 - Why?

Inspection of the CD-R reveals no damage.

Is this some other problem with CD-Rs?

The list of non-ripping CD-Rs is certain growing with only one CDDA no-go.

My encouragement to try to avoid these things is also getting stronger.

APK

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2008, 08:43:27 AM »
"Inspection of the CD-R reveals no damage."

And you are sure its not just your player acting up?
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zzzone.net

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2008, 08:54:45 AM »
The player rips other discs quickly and reliably with dBpoweramp. 

I have two players in the computer in question and neither reads the last track.  Both players are less than 2 months old.

I know this is not fool-proof evidence of a good player but it's the best I can do.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 08:58:28 AM by jimzzzak »

ffcal

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2008, 09:38:52 AM »
I have two players in the computer in question and neither reads the last track.  Both players are less than 2 months old.

Are you getting the same results in a conventional CD player?  I would think that the CD mechanism in the CD-ROM drive is relatively modest, compare to that of a standalone CD player.

Forrest

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2008, 04:00:57 PM »
I am converting my CD collection to .flac files for a home music server.

A conventional CD player would not suit this purpose unfortunately.

However, I will try the experiment and let you know.

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2008, 12:56:30 PM »
Thanks for checking back in, Matt, and I'm sure those individuals with glitchy discs will be pleased to get replacements.  Also, it's good to hear that your daughter's story turned out OK.
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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2008, 02:07:45 PM »
Yet another chapter in this super fascinating thread:

A CD-R this morning will not allow the last track to be read: Deep Chill Network - Dreams 4 - Why?

Inspection of the CD-R reveals no damage.


Not sure why some of these have problems and others do not.  I have not had many people report problems over the years, maybe 4 or 5 total CDs, and I usually use the really good CDs when I burn them myself.

I've also personally purchased a lot of CDRs over the years and the only ones I've ever had problems with were some of James Johnson's discs and several Oophoi discs.  I will personally replace any disc of mine that ever 'dies' just let me know.  All Dark Duck Records CD essentially have a lifetime warrenty.

That being said, I also generally rip all CDs that I get just in case :)

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2008, 12:34:24 AM »
I have a lot of CdRs in my collection and unfortunately I have discovered that many of them are now unplayable: Vir Unis "Lumen"; a couple Saul Stokes (those in the wooden boxes); James Johnson "Lost at Dunn's Lake", "Unity", "Surrender", "Minimum", "Journeys"; a bunch of Dark Duck titles; a mountain of Mathias Grassow titles. My discs are stocked in a safe place - no humidity at all - some of them have the paper label, some don't. I've tried to get the replacement discs from Saul, but he replied that the masters are gone lost.
I've always replaced all the defective Umbra and Penumbra discs, so I'd like to get replacement discs when I need them, but in many cases this seems impossible.

ffcal

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2008, 01:49:24 AM »
I think I may have mentioned this before in an old thread, but I've had some success making playable CDR copies of discs that otherwise skip because of scratches etc.  This works best when I use my CDR recorder.  I'm not sure why this is the case, but it does seem to work for me most of the time, unless the disc is completely trashed.

Forrest

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2008, 09:17:37 AM »
I have a lot of CdRs in my collection and unfortunately I have discovered that many of them are now unplayable: Vir Unis "Lumen"; a couple Saul Stokes (those in the wooden boxes); James Johnson "Lost at Dunn's Lake", "Unity", "Surrender", "Minimum", "Journeys"; a bunch of Dark Duck titles; a mountain of Mathias Grassow titles. My discs are stocked in a safe place - no humidity at all - some of them have the paper label, some don't. I've tried to get the replacement discs from Saul, but he replied that the masters are gone lost.
I've always replaced all the defective Umbra and Penumbra discs, so I'd like to get replacement discs when I need them, but in many cases this seems impossible.

I've had the same experiences with many of these titles, too.  I copied and sold almost all of them a few years ago, but a few simply had to be thrown out (Lumen, for example).  I've noticed that the player you put them in makes a difference, at times.  Some discs that won't play in three of the players in our house may play in the fourth one.  I've still got the Saul Stokes wooden box releases—I'll have to dig 'em out and see how they play.  Perhaps, with Saul's permission, we can post the tracks online somewhere.

APK

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2008, 11:17:45 AM »
Back in the joint running of Databloem and Dataobscura we used sticky labels on taiyo yuden disks for the Dataobscura releases. I did find them a problem occasionally, particularly in some car players where there is a narrow slot the disk goes in. Maybe that design is especially sensitive to thickness.

Since the separation a year ago of Databloem and Dataobscura, all Dataobscura releases (including the early ones) have on-disk printing with no sticky labels.  Thought I'd mention that.


APK
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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2008, 02:39:42 PM »
I have a lot of CdRs in my collection and unfortunately I have discovered that many of them are now unplayable: Vir Unis "Lumen"; a couple Saul Stokes (those in the wooden boxes); James Johnson "Lost at Dunn's Lake", "Unity", "Surrender", "Minimum", "Journeys"; a bunch of Dark Duck titles; a mountain of Mathias Grassow titles. My discs are stocked in a safe place - no humidity at all - some of them have the paper label, some don't. I've tried to get the replacement discs from Saul, but he replied that the masters are gone lost.
I've always replaced all the defective Umbra and Penumbra discs, so I'd like to get replacement discs when I need them, but in many cases this seems impossible.

Damn...based on what some folks wrote, I just tried playing my copy of Lost at Dunn's Lake, an album I just LOVE, and it is, indeed, as the saying goes "Tits up." Sounds all scratchy and stuff.

Okay, since so many here are smarter than me when it comes to techno-babble, what the hell causes this? Cause I have some other CD-Rs from farther back that are still fine. Am I going to have go through all my older CD-Rs and quick copy them and do that every 5 years to be sure I always have a good copy?

Dammit...anyone know if this album is available as a digital download?

APK

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2008, 03:04:04 PM »
The cause of bad cdr's is, I believe, simply a chemical breakdown caused by exposure to air/radiation/heat. It happens are varying rates, but presumably faster with cheaper blank cdr's. Its fairly unpredictable. Of course, the technology has improved over the years, so even cheaper ones are now better than they were 10 years ago. People/companies are naturally concerned with getting something with archival quality.

And don't forget that some cdr's are just bad to begin with ... production errors that get through the quality check. I used to especially find this with memorex brand ... they were rubbish.

I think hard disks last so well because they are a sealed/unexposed unit. Just don't knock them around though :)

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mgriffin

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2008, 03:20:51 PM »
There are several things that seem to have a correlation to problems with the lifespan of burned CDRs.

First, poor quality media.  I think some artists and labels, faced with buying CDR media in large quantities for a new release, make the decision to save $30 or $50 on media costs, with the result that a much higher number of copies have gone bad after 5 or 10 years.

Second, stick-on disc labels.  There's no dispute that the labels cause problems for slot-load CD players, like in many car players and some laptops (like my Apple Powerbook) due to increasing the effective thickness of the disc.  Also, slightly off-center labels create rotational instability (think of your washing machine going out of balance in the spin cycle) and so the discs are more likely to have other problems in playback.  I've also heard reports of a sort of "rot" happening on sticker-label discs, though I've heard of this so rarely that I don't know if it's a real thing.

I had three things in mind when I started typing this and have already forgotten what the third thing was...
 
 ???
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einstein36

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2008, 04:16:21 PM »
hahahaha...not to berate you or anything, but damn....sucks getting old doesn't it??:) hahahaha
and yes, I am turning the big 40 next year......oh man....


There are several things that seem to have a correlation to problems with the lifespan of burned CDRs.

First, poor quality media.  I think some artists and labels, faced with buying CDR media in large quantities for a new release, make the decision to save $30 or $50 on media costs, with the result that a much higher number of copies have gone bad after 5 or 10 years.

Second, stick-on disc labels.  There's no dispute that the labels cause problems for slot-load CD players, like in many car players and some laptops (like my Apple Powerbook) due to increasing the effective thickness of the disc.  Also, slightly off-center labels create rotational instability (think of your washing machine going out of balance in the spin cycle) and so the discs are more likely to have other problems in playback.  I've also heard reports of a sort of "rot" happening on sticker-label discs, though I've heard of this so rarely that I don't know if it's a real thing.

I had three things in mind when I started typing this and have already forgotten what the third thing was...
 
 ???
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zzzone.net

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2009, 10:51:14 AM »
In my further ripping adventures, I ran across another CD-R that has no visible scratches, yet refuses to rip or play:

Robert Scott Thompson - Blue Day

It appears to have a paper label on it.  The plastic has turned a bright yellow color.

The CD-R problems totally outnumber the CDA problems so far (5:1 or so)

I've emailed Aucourant about a replacement.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2009, 11:04:05 AM by jimzzzak »

zzzone.net

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Re: CD-R Deterioration
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2009, 11:42:15 AM »
Dang.

Two clinkers in one day.

The latest is a previously unopened CDDA:

Amir Baghiri - Ghazal

The 2 last tracks have multiple errors.