Author Topic: How to stay interested in music?  (Read 24239 times)

ambient789

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Re: How to stay interested in music?
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2009, 09:30:02 PM »


Absolutely.  My kid is 6, and he'll happily put an ambient album on, or as i've been noticing recently, the Veronicas. :)   (They're from brisbane too did you know?)  So, i'm guessing, for him it's whatever moves him, and probably because he's heard so much ambient music, it moves him. :)

"Daddy, Telomere makes me feel like I'm flying through space...."

how cool is that.
 

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Mark Mushet

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Re: Gaming culture and music (was: How to stay interested in music?)
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2009, 12:25:14 AM »
 
And as for Debussy, Vaughan Williams and Vangelis being last century:  How should we refer to J.S Bach then? that's like, so 1700's!  What i'm saying is that just because it's old, doesn't mean it's irrelevant.  I haven't really heard anything yet from c21 that has knocked my socks off.  I happen to think ambient music and baroque music are massively similar and are trying to do the same thing basically. I also don't think it's fair to say that the mainstream is so far behind.    

You missed my point entirely. I listen to early music, Bach, Ligeti, modern jazz, rock, cheeseball pop and more (as we can see from reading each others "now playing" lists and commentary). I find the hybrid, atomized forms of contemporary music fascinating and most relevant to our actual times...stuff done with fragments of our colliding cultural histories. I think of Christopher Bissonnette, some of the 12k stuff etc., music created by a new generation but which doesn't serve the purpose of soundtracking a game. It fires the imagination while behaving like a burning compost of music historical elements. I don't think there'll be a groundswell of interest in that music from the gamers.

The music of Bach, Williams, Ligeti et al has been used in film for a good part of the last half century. That means the film going public has been unwittingly steeped in orchestral music along with their entertainment for a long time...yet those forms are not understood or patronized by the general public in a sustainable measure as a result. You suggest that the gaming culture will result in openness to this music...well yes, just as long as its merely a component in their main interest: ignoring the real world playing at a console. My recent wii experience made me want the real thing.

And mainstream society, sad to say, yes...is clueless, despite having more information and choice than ever. It really is about education and I'm glad that's an area you're in because we need all the passionate advocates we can get!

Part of my anti-gaming bias is that I live with easy access to wilderness and outside of the internet (which is already time-consuming and addictive enough) I prioritize human relations. People play enough games as it is, be they emotional or professional. I also hate violent "shooter" games because I consider them irresponsible.

deepspace

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Re: Gaming culture and music (was: How to stay interested in music?)
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2009, 12:51:01 AM »
 
And as for Debussy, Vaughan Williams and Vangelis being last century:  How should we refer to J.S Bach then? that's like, so 1700's!  What i'm saying is that just because it's old, doesn't mean it's irrelevant.  I haven't really heard anything yet from c21 that has knocked my socks off.  I happen to think ambient music and baroque music are massively similar and are trying to do the same thing basically. I also don't think it's fair to say that the mainstream is so far behind.    

You missed my point entirely. I listen to early music, Bach, Ligeti, modern jazz, rock, cheeseball pop and more (as we can see from reading each others "now playing" lists and commentary). I find the hybrid, atomized forms of contemporary music fascinating and most relevant to our actual times...stuff done with fragments of our colliding cultural histories. I think of Christopher Bissonnette, some of the 12k stuff etc., music created by a new generation but which doesn't serve the purpose of soundtracking a game. It fires the imagination while behaving like a burning compost of music historical elements. I don't think there'll be a groundswell of interest in that music from the gamers.

The music of Bach, Williams, Ligeti et al has been used in film for a good part of the last half century. That means the film going public has been unwittingly steeped in orchestral music along with their entertainment for a long time...yet those forms are not understood or patronized by the general public in a sustainable measure as a result. You suggest that the gaming culture will result in openness to this music...well yes, just as long as its merely a component in their main interest: ignoring the real world playing at a console. My recent wii experience made me want the real thing.

And mainstream society, sad to say, yes...is clueless, despite having more information and choice than ever. It really is about education and I'm glad that's an area you're in because we need all the passionate advocates we can get!

Part of my anti-gaming bias is that I live with easy access to wilderness and outside of the internet (which is already time-consuming and addictive enough) I prioritize human relations. People play enough games as it is, be they emotional or professional. I also hate violent "shooter" games because I consider them irresponsible.

I don't think I missed your point.  But I also don't think that music is debased by becoming partner with a visual.  In fact, the visual is just the bit that you can see, and the music is the part that you feel.  Why view this as a negative?  In performance there is a visual accompaniment anyway- the performer!  It's only since the advent of recording that this visual can be removed.  They're kind of meant to go together.  I understand that you think music can stand on its own, and of course it can.  But why deny something that tends to occur naturally.

And I also agree with your point of cinema giving a bigger audience access to otherwise seldom heard music.  What I'm adding to this, is that the same effect that you speak of, is now occuring in games, and an even younger audience is now recieving exposure to 'high art' music, if you want to go near that term.  that's all. :)

Your appreciation of the wilderness is also something I feel, make no mistake.  I worship at the altar of nature, it's just that I don't see gaming as the absolute antithesis of that.  There's something explorative in gaming that harks to the glory of nature as well.  Playing games is quite an urban activity, where nature is a precious commodity, and you can actually see that in games.  Beautifully rendered natural scenes is an oft repeated setting in games.  I also share your disdain of first person shooters.  They only make up a small percentage of gaming genres, but they happen to be the most reported ones by the media.  I don't think we are in opposition, maybe games are the only thing that I view differently to you.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 01:41:23 AM by deepspace »

Wayne Higgins

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Re: How to stay interested in music?
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2009, 11:01:48 AM »
Wowweee :D

IM-AARP-O, I tend to see video games as a dividing line between people over and under 50.  A not all inclusive number, but you get my drift, daddy-o.  I won't go either way on what games do to people, because I don't play.  I consider adventure games the biggest waste of time in the modern world.  A comment on me about gaming would be about as futile as an atheist discussing faith.

Movies credited as introducing a segment of the population into music they would have never listened to before is a valid assumption.  But.... the number of people who would search for more Ligeti after seeing "2001" is not nearly as large as the number buying a Mozart disc after watchin "Amadaeus".  I tend to lean to an statistical explination, if one exists, that would say that the Ligeti crowd would be just as large with or without "2001."  Shooting myself in the head with that one, because I may have never known who Ligeti was without the "2001" soundtrack, but then again.... I grew up in a house listening to the Everly Brothers, the Beach Boys and the Monkees, as well as alot of old C & W and Baptist hymns.  It's not like anyone else in the family listened to Steppenwolf, Iron Butterfly, Mahler or Wendy Carlos, nor did I originally hear their music in any movie.  It just kind of "happened."

[Break:  I'm listening to Iron Maiden today, and "Sea of Madness" just came on! 8)]

So, back to the original topic, staying interested in music.  I had a friend who was a composer years ago.  It was his degree, and even though he opted to become a computer programmer to make money to provide for his family, he became blocked, disinterested in music.  John was his name, he introduced me to Phillip Glass, played me "Einstien on the Beach".  Any, the block.  He asked me one night what would I suggest to get him back on track.  What would I do to rekindle my interest of writing music if it was suddenly gone.  I (off the top of my head) asked him "What kind of music do you dislike?"  He replied Country Western (no suprise).  I told him to start listening to it.  He winced, but said he'd give it a shot.  A few months later I met up with him again.  He thanked me for the advice.  He said that he didn't become a C&W fan, but in forcing himself to appriciate a genre of music he despised, it opened up a few more doors.

Oh, well.  Back to Iron Maiden.
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APK

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Re: How to stay interested in music?
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2009, 11:37:07 AM »
MYST was such a great game for its ambient sounds and music score.
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Bill Binkelman

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Re: How to stay interested in music?
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2009, 12:27:15 PM »
MYST was such a great game for its ambient sounds and music score.

Agreed, although I think RIVEN is even better (musically and visually/game-wise). I own the soundtracks to both and the soundtrack to RIVEN is in my top 10 of all time....yes, top 10! I play it all the time and have since I first bought it years and years ago. Talk about atmospheric music!

Mark Mushet

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Re: Gaming culture and music (was: How to stay interested in music?)
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2009, 12:45:20 PM »
But I also don't think that music is debased by becoming partner with a visual.  In fact, the visual is just the bit that you can see, and the music is the part that you feel.  Why view this as a negative?  In performance there is a visual accompaniment anyway- the performer!  It's only since the advent of recording that this visual can be removed.  They're kind of meant to go together.  I understand that you think music can stand on its own, and of course it can.  But why deny something that tends to occur naturally.

And I also agree with your point of cinema giving a bigger audience access to otherwise seldom heard music.  What I'm adding to this, is that the same effect that you speak of, is now occuring in games, and an even younger audience is now recieving exposure to 'high art' music, if you want to go near that term.  that's all. :)

First point: I didn't say game or film sondtrack use of music debased the music...just changes the character, perception and in some cases does make it distinctly less as music. When it is created specifically for soundtrack, yes, the wedding begins.

Recently I saw a trailer for Horton Hears a Who. The marketing idiots used the Who's "Who Are You" for the ad! And CSI does the same with other Who classics...yet those songs carry their own weight and associations well and above their repurposing.

Many composers of the past and present I'm sure did not conceive their music to be wedded to the spectacle of performance. Imagine some of the uncomfortable, noisy audiences of the past; a royal performance of Haydn as some consumptive third cousin to the duke barks a lung in the 3rd row! Nice!

Second point: cinema didn't bring a larger audience to the music outside of its use in cinema. I eagerly await the rush of young bodies to the CD store to buy contemporary music. But it won't happen. I was in the city's biggest mall yesterday (places that bring out my deepest love of humanity) and can see that game and CD/DVD stores are now dividing.

petekelly

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Re: How to stay interested in music?
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2009, 01:07:07 PM »
Wowweee :D

IM-AARP-O, I tend to see video games as a dividing line between people over and under 50.  A not all inclusive number, but you get my drift, daddy-o.  I won't go either way on what games do to people, because I don't play.  I consider adventure games the biggest waste of time in the modern world. 

I'm under 50 and I agree with Wayne on this one. The only game I found remotely interesting was Peter Gabriels's 'EVE'. But hey, I do the MySpace thing which is probably an equally great waste of time as well !

cheers
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deepspace

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Re: Gaming culture and music (was: How to stay interested in music?)
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2009, 03:34:51 PM »
But I also don't think that music is debased by becoming partner with a visual.  In fact, the visual is just the bit that you can see, and the music is the part that you feel.  Why view this as a negative?  In performance there is a visual accompaniment anyway- the performer!  It's only since the advent of recording that this visual can be removed.  They're kind of meant to go together.  I understand that you think music can stand on its own, and of course it can.  But why deny something that tends to occur naturally.

And I also agree with your point of cinema giving a bigger audience access to otherwise seldom heard music.  What I'm adding to this, is that the same effect that you speak of, is now occuring in games, and an even younger audience is now recieving exposure to 'high art' music, if you want to go near that term.  that's all. :)

First point: I didn't say game or film sondtrack use of music debased the music...just changes the character, perception and in some cases does make it distinctly less as music. When it is created specifically for soundtrack, yes, the wedding begins.

Recently I saw a trailer for Horton Hears a Who. The marketing idiots used the Who's "Who Are You" for the ad! And CSI does the same with other Who classics...yet those songs carry their own weight and associations well and above their repurposing.

Many composers of the past and present I'm sure did not conceive their music to be wedded to the spectacle of performance. Imagine some of the uncomfortable, noisy audiences of the past; a royal performance of Haydn as some consumptive third cousin to the duke barks a lung in the 3rd row! Nice!

Second point: cinema didn't bring a larger audience to the music outside of its use in cinema. I eagerly await the rush of young bodies to the CD store to buy contemporary music. But it won't happen. I was in the city's biggest mall yesterday (places that bring out my deepest love of humanity) and can see that game and CD/DVD stores are now dividing.

The 'Horton Hears a Who' example is an excellent one, as you say, of the union of visual and music sometimes not working together.  That's a horrible choice isn't it.  On their own, two great entities, Horton is a fab story, and the Who an amazing band, but together, well....not happening.  The feeling of that song would overwhelms most visuals.  So, yes, I take that point. :) 

And as to the second point:  Again, I do agree with you.  I also don't see any 8 year olds rushing to the S section of the Classical part of HMV going "Where's the freakin' Scriabin gone?"

But, when they hear that music, they don't ignore it, they might go 'hmmm, that reminds me of the ingame music in Oblivion' - it just gives an extra point of reference, so they don't think music is just for dancing to. etc  And lo and behold, if they ever do get music lessons, they'll be more comfortable when they hear those sounds.  I remember going to uni to study music, and feeling very uncomfortable (because before I went, I was primarily self-taught rock'n'roll kind of guy) and the only times I felt ok at the start of the degree, was when I could make associations-  A lecturer played a part of Beethoven's 5th Piano Concerto (everyone else around me was more middle-class and had many more associations with this sort of music), and I immediately recognised it from when my dad used to put it on (when he was feeling depressed I think...) and it gave me a feeling of comfort in a very anxious time- suddenly I felt like I could go on, and slowly work my way into this new world.  The same would go for kids at school I think. 

So, I think we're largely in agreeance. In a nutshell, from my end of things: Games place an important value on music today, and provide an extra source of non-typical music for young kids. 

Maybe that's all I should have written. :)










deepspace

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Re: How to stay interested in music?
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2009, 03:38:58 PM »
Wayne,

Iron Maiden!  I grew up on that band!!

Are you listening to Somewhere in Time?  or a compilation?

I used to love that album.  In fact, I saw the lads at the start of 2008, and they were brilliant.  Dickinson's voice was better than ever.




Wayne Higgins

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Re: How to stay interested in music?
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2009, 10:10:17 AM »
Compilation, hell!   I've got practially every album.  (too bad I haven't found anything on vinyl)  Really want to see them, but they never come to the southeast.
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Mark Mushet

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Re: Gaming culture and music (was: How to stay interested in music?)
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2009, 01:59:17 PM »
As if on cue:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/dec/18/brian-eno-peter-jackson-soundtrack

Ugh.

To quote the opening:

"Brian Eno to score next Peter Jackson film.

Sadly, our hopes of elves, hobbits and orcs fighting it out against an ambient soundtrack are dashed. It's for The Lovely Bones, starring Rachel Weisz and Mark Wahlberg."

Note the clueless reference to recent collab with Byrne in the article.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 02:02:06 PM by Mark Mushet »

michael sandler

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Re: How to stay interested in music?
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2009, 07:09:19 PM »
Hi,

How do you keep your music interest alive? I am now finding that I really enjoy quiet, no sounds at all.
It used to be that I would always have music on in the background. I don't quite know what has changed.
Possibly, since I'm older now has something to do with it, but my priorities haven't changed all that much. Suggestions anybody?

 ???

I agree with the advice to let the music go if it wants to. If it wants to come back, it will.

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DeepR

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Re: How to stay interested in music?
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2009, 04:01:53 PM »
How to stay interested in music?
Listen to music that is new to you!

Classical piano music maybe?
Youtube a is great way to start discovering this music.

Richter: Rachmaninov - Prelude Op. 23 No. 4


Zimerman: Chopin - Ballade No. 4



Lugansky: Rachmaninov - Moment Musical 4


Kissin: Liszt - La Campanella

Scott M2

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Re: How to stay interested in music?
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2009, 04:13:59 PM »
How to stay interested in music?
Listen to music that is new to you!

Classical piano music maybe?
Youtube a is great way to start discovering this music.

Richter: Rachmaninov - Prelude Op. 23 No. 4


Zimerman: Chopin - Ballade No. 4



Lugansky: Rachmaninov - Moment Musical 4


Kissin: Liszt - La Campanella


And of course... John Cage's 4:33


or a more dramatic version:

« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 04:20:29 PM by Scott M2 »

deepspace

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Re: How to stay interested in music?
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2009, 07:56:06 PM »
Compilation, hell!   I've got practially every album.  (too bad I haven't found anything on vinyl)  Really want to see them, but they never come to the southeast.

That's what I thought.  I was being polite, just in case. ;)  You never know with some of these new gen maiden fans (Though it's not too hard to seperate the actual maiden fans from the new "I like the t-shirt" types).

I used to have a coloured vinyl copy of 'two minutes to midnight' that had a picture of eddie (iron maiden's beloved mascot) sitting in a battlefield, sucking on a cigar.  It would probably worth a quid or two today.  I also remember buying Somewhere in Time on vinyl and spending hours looking for funny little references on the cover.  Maybe we need a metal section on the hypnos forums. :)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 11:10:04 PM by deepspace »