Author Topic: iMac for music?  (Read 27256 times)

Paul Vnuk (Ma Ja Le)

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2009, 10:31:28 AM »
Bottom line we are now at a point where computers should not be the weak link in the chain when it comes to music production, with quad cores, 4 gigs or ram as a starting point, power is not the issue.


I hope you are joking right ?
Sure with todays Software the computer might not be the weak link, but already there is coming new software that is VERY cpu demanding and more powerful and that take advantage of the CPU power.
T-Racks 3 which I use a lot is an cpu eater. So I think there will take many many many years until the computer is not the weak link in the production chain since the software is going to get more and more powerful in parallel with the how the CPU/Memory power evolve.

And about my Laptop comment, If you read what I said, I said..only in "general" there is exceptions, compared with workstations they are still toys though :)
So it is all relative..
 




Actually I was not. Yes there always will be some software companies who like to push the bounds of processing power, but products such as Waves, Abbey Road, URS and others all are considered professional software and are all relatively processor efficient.

I have recorded and mixed numerous projects with an average of 24 - 36 tracks while sending 16 channels of output on a single processor AMD for years with very little CPU struggle. I have played shows, flawlessly with multiple live softsynths on a single processor Intel celeron.

Even low level budget Dells have 4 x the power now...my studio computer is a quad core intel with 4 gigs of Ram, I just did a sound design session with 200 tracks before rendering (which is a ridiculous track count) numerous plug-ins and I was barely at 75% of the computer's power.

So yeah, to use your arguments since you assume most folks here are not audio "professionals" needing big ticket macs and such...power should not be an issue.


John...buy the Mac from Best buy and be happy, it will rock. Let your computer inspire you and make you happy, you will make better music.

Paul
"I liken good ambient to good poetry ... enjoyable, often powerful, and usually unpopular" APK

mgriffin

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2009, 10:35:42 AM »
We don't agree, Immersion, because I believe it's possible for someone to prefer a Mac without being stupid.   

You're being rude and condescending, and worse yet you're doing so from a position of admitted ignorance.  But as it's obvious you're set in your beliefs so I won't argue about this any more.
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mgriffin

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2009, 10:42:16 AM »
John...buy the Mac from Best buy and be happy, it will rock. Let your computer inspire you and make you happy, you will make better music.

Paul

A very useful quote, Paul, not because of the statement that John should buy a Mac specifically, but the idea that one should buy the machine that makes them feel happy and inspired.  If somebody wants to run Ubuntu Linux or BeOS or AmigaOS or DosBox or Vista or whatever makes them happy, I say go for it.
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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2009, 10:45:43 AM »
Immersion, your problem is with overstatements and too-broad generalizations, as evidenced by your use of the phrase "you Mac people," as if all Mac users are the same.

Certainly a Mac user who acts like their computer makes them "better" or more enlightened than a Windows user is operating from the same perspective of ignorance and dogmatic thinking that you're exhibiting above.
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Paul Vnuk (Ma Ja Le)

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2009, 10:54:13 AM »
I use both...every day and they both work. Period. I agree that I don't enjoy the evangilization at a crusade level on both sides of the argument.

I am fine and happy being cross platform, both allow me to indulge in work and play equally well, I will state however that on a pure emotional level, I enjoy the Mac OS and experience better.

Paul
"I liken good ambient to good poetry ... enjoyable, often powerful, and usually unpopular" APK

jkn

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2009, 11:02:53 AM »
This is so hilarious...

Immersion - your comments are completely cracking me up - thanks for the humor today.    I guess I'll say this - a lot of the people on this forum know a lot of stuff about music, gear, recording, and computers.  It's why I asked here.   My personal background in computers goes back a long way (professionally in IT for 16 years - from mainframes to os/2 to windows and linux servers -but I tackle IT more form a data/database/programming point of view), and yes, I've run Vista and spiffy new machines and it still bugs the heck out of me.   It's just a personal preference thing.    What works for you - works for you - and that's awesome.   Use the tools that work best for you.

I'm interested in a mac because I'm ready to go that route.   If I were going to stick with pc - I'd go the ADK Pro Audio route which Paul brought up again in this thread (he's the one that originally turned me onto them a few years ago).  They're a good company and spec out some great machines.   But... I'm ready to go mac.

Let's bring this back to what I wanted to talk about in the first place...   I've decided on the iMac - I linked to it earlier in the thread - it's a 24" iMac.  I have a Presonus Firestudio Project sound card.  I'll primarily be using hardware and recording audio.   I rarely sequence.

I found where I can order the firewire 400 to 800 adapters - it appears that's going to work ok with maybe a bit of tinkering.

I'll most likely use Reaper ( http://www.reaper.fm ) because I can't afford to go Logic from the start and Reaper looks like a good fit for me.

What other nifty, very affordable apps are out there for music on a mac?   Let's keep it in the under $100 category.  
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Paul Vnuk (Ma Ja Le)

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2009, 11:32:53 AM »
...hmmm under $100? Not sure. You may want to check. Not sure what soft synths or plug-ins you own on the PC side, but many of them may be cross platform already.

The only thing I will warn you about is that there are no two track editors equal to either Sound Forge or Wavelab in the Mac world. I have tried Bias and I could not stand it. I actually know of a few high end mastering engineers who purchased PCs just to run these programs.

The good news is you can install windows on your machine with little hassle or problems.

I think there may be light versions of Logic with upgrade paths for you to check out. In fact my advice would be, before you buy a bunch of $100 plug-ins and music apps, you may want to take that same cash, save it up and jump into the full Logic right away. The only reason I suggest this is that Logic comes with a hefty collection of plug-ins, synths and samplers which may be a better fit right off the bat, and you would start learning your intended new platform sooner.

Just more food for thought.
"I liken good ambient to good poetry ... enjoyable, often powerful, and usually unpopular" APK

Seren

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2009, 11:57:51 AM »
I don't like computers for creating music  - at least in the form I have seen and could afford - not counting out machines I've not had the pleasure to met.

I have a newish computer with Vista and it is a nightmare - everything is slow and it crashes and seizes like no computer I've had before - all since installing official updates and it took me a while to realise this and can't work out which installs to uninstall >:( >:( >:(

I echo the comment of getting the equipment you are inspired by....hopefully well all be inspired by the music at a later date

jkn

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2009, 12:36:40 PM »

ok - I'll seriously take a look at Logic Express and just saving up...  :-)  I know that's where I'm going.

Bummer on the Sound Forge thing - maybe I'll have to dual boot after all.

John

p.s.  I'm just not reading Immersion for awhile.
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mgriffin

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2009, 12:53:06 PM »
Dual booting isn't really too big a deal.  But Paul's right that there is no Sound Forge equivalent on Mac OS.  It's kind of weird, actually, that nobody ever bothered to  come up with a good, straightforward 2-track editing/mastering app on Mac OS.
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APK

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2009, 01:24:42 PM »
John
I'm REALLY happy with Reaper (after using Vegas, Cubase, and Sonar).
Very solid, fast, un-bloated program that still has a ton of features.
Unless you need a notation view, it could be all you need.
Was of course only recently ported to mac, and may not be identical to the pc version.

I could not get into Logic (way back).

Sad to hear no Wavelab/SForge equivalent in the mac world. I long ago settled on
Wavelab out of those two. It is a mastering essential for me.
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LNerell

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2009, 01:26:42 PM »
Phew !    :D

Now look what you started!  :P ;D
Take care.

- Loren Nerell

APK

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2009, 01:28:24 PM »
Yes. And I do take full responsibility  :)
In fact, I should probably ban myself for a few days.
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LNerell

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2009, 01:50:29 PM »

The only thing I will warn you about is that there are no two track editors equal to either Sound Forge or Wavelab in the Mac world. I have tried Bias and I could not stand it. I actually know of a few high end mastering engineers who purchased PCs just to run these programs.

Actually their are quite a few two track editors and/or mastering programs such as:

Waveburner which comes free with Logic is pretty good CD burning program.

Waveeditor is the cheapest and is getting new features every day.
http://www.audiofile-engineering.com/waveeditor/techspecs.php

DSP Quattro is pretty inexpensive and is also getting more features.
http://www.i3net.it/Products/dspQuattro/Asp/Index_EN.asp?Language=EN

Peak Pro 6 which is getting better.
http://www.bias-inc.com/products/peakPro6/

PreMaster CD
http://www.sonicstudio.com/products/pmcd/pmcd01.html

Which is a cut down version of SoundBlade.
http://www.sonicstudio.com/products/sb/soundblade01.html

The last two being pro mastering apps so they are quite expensive.

I mainly use Peak 5 (haven't done the upgrade yet, maybe this summer) and Waveburner. I've been using Peak since 1.6 so I know it pretty well, before that it was Sound Designer and Masterlist CD. Both are long gone now.
Take care.

- Loren Nerell

mgriffin

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2009, 01:59:48 PM »
I used to use Peak, while now I use DSP-Quattro for basic editing.  I don't do full-fledged mastering with Quattro, though.  I just use Sound Forge for that, as I have all my plugins dialed-in pretty well on that PC.

Audacity actually isn't bad for a small/cheap solution for 2-track editing.
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LNerell

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2009, 02:03:43 PM »
Often it is the user itself that make Vista a nightmare it works flawlessly here..
You need a lot of tweaking to get the most out of it...

Funny how my "toy" "plastic looking thing" that I used to make parts of Terraform worked flawlessly out of the box without any tweaking needed. I guess I am a fool for "throwing my money away" at a machine that does the job and lets me get to work instead of spending hours hunting down bugs or new drivers for a flawed operating system that was rushed out too soon.  ;D
Take care.

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ffcal

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2009, 02:25:19 PM »
Yes. And I do take full responsibility  :)
In fact, I should probably ban myself for a few days.

 ;D

I don't have much to add to the PC-Mac wars, though I've drifted towards the PC, because it was required for my contract work.  I still use a PC that has Windows 98SE for old algorithmic programs, and it runs even old Windows 3.1 programs reasonably well.  Have avoided Vista like the plague.  I also use a Lenovo PC laptop for VSTi experimenting and have not experienced any problems with it.  I also have an ancient Apple Powerbook that I used to run an early version of MAX.

Forrest

Paul Vnuk (Ma Ja Le)

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2009, 02:40:42 PM »
Loren brings up a good point. At a certain level time is seriously money. So if you are just starting out and have a ton of time on your hands and little cash, it is absolutely a smart decision to buy the most affordable computer you can and then "wrench it" yourself.

However, eventually if you do this for a living (as a label or studio or sound designer or full time professional musician) or even an overblown hobby which brings in cash (which really is a part time job VS hobby), the time that you spend is money out of your pocket. Even if it only takes you 1 - 3 days to tweak your OS and trouble shoot and install and upgrade drivers, Etc. Consider that to various people a day is equal to $100 - $400 that you are now loosing by going the DIY route.

For that reason alone a Mac or specialized PC is probably a better bet in terms of time spent and money earned. IE. It works right out of the box!

All this proves is that different folks here have different needs and make music or record for different reasons. These are computers, not politics or religion so the my way is the only way is kind of pointless and rude.

Paul
"I liken good ambient to good poetry ... enjoyable, often powerful, and usually unpopular" APK

Ekstasis

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2009, 02:52:30 PM »
You make it sound like MAC is this totally problem-free universe...where no problems exist at all, everything just works like pure magic! :)
Well..I wish it was like that..but the reality is there is problems and bugs for MAC as well:)
And You also need to update drivers just like in Windows..so not much difference.

You need to tweak an MAC as well maybe not as much as Vista though.....and to tweak Vista if you know what you are doing does not take you more then one hour.

jkn

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Re: iMac for music?
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2009, 04:44:15 PM »
Fantastic recommendation, everyone.  My iMac purchase is a week or two away.  I'll be salivating endlessly until I get to bring it home.

Immersion I respect your opinions, seriously.  I'm glad you're happy with what you use - that's what matters.
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