I'm wondering how many people who say "taking something from me that I did not freely give to you is stealing" also disapprove of the income tax?
Oh wait that's right... that tax money just goes back to help the poor people of society... right.
Sorry Judd, not really following you on this one. The analogy I would make is the person who sneaks into a concert that others paid for. The logical extension of your argument would be that that's OK, too. But why stop there? Why not sneak onto a flight that others paid for? No harm, no foul? Sounds like way too much relativism for me.
Well it's another topic altogether, but when your labor, the money that you earn, is taken in the form of a tax and applied to someone or something else, let's say to fund a war, or support "mandatory pre-school for all", subsidizing the oil industry, or something you generally don't agree with, can that be called fair? Could it be called stealing? I think many of the founders of our country thought so, and reading their quotes on taxes in general is pretty enlightening- we didn't have an income tax before 1914 if my history's correct. I'm not trying to veer the conversation in the direction of taxes or government anyway.
You say the "logical extension of my argument" is that sneaking into a theatre is okay, and I've gotta say, I'm not sure I follow you either on that one. What part of my argument extends to that? When you say there's too much relativism, that's what in effect I'm asking you guys. To what extent can one share one's experience when one purchases music, and what is it that I own? I'm asking how relative is burning a cd for a friend to uploading music to the anonymous user?
It is interesting that people are putting most of the responsibility on the downloader here. It's like they know it's a grey area when someone purchases the music as to the extent of what they can do with it once they buy it.
The thing about sneaking into a theatre or an airplane: If I purchase a ticket to go to one of these, it's not like buying a cd. I cannot share that ticket, otherwise it's "sneaking", not the same with music. Forrest, when I allow others to share or partake in the music experience that I have bought, let's say invite them into my living room where we enjoy the music, I have not "snuck them in" to my experience, have I? Yet I'm the one who bought the experience, and it is easily shared with others. That's why I see this as a very grey area as to what extent the musician, or the government can mandate how I share what I purchased.
As to the doctor selling the "intangible" advice: yeah, no question information can be sold, but it can just as easily be shared. Same with intangibles too- Vegas wouldn't exist if it weren't for selling intangibles
I can buy a cookbook and share a recipe, I can obtain info. from a doctor that could generally help anybody- in fact my chiropractor has given me some invaluable exercises during doctor's visits that I in turn have shared with my massage clients- does anyone think this is stealing? What if I posted some of that information online to help someone?
I believe that conscience and goodwill is and should be very alive and well- this forum is the perfect example where people are stressing the importance of compensating the musician to the benefit of us all. There is a model of complete donation or compensation that is controversial, but it has worked before... anyone ever heard of Patch Adams? If everyone took advantage of his "free clinic", he wouldn't exist, but it does. I'm sure someone could tell Patch one of these hypothetical vacuumed ideas of "well if you didn't charge for your services, and no one paid or donated, then you couldn't continue to run your clinic...", and well I guess they'd be right.