Author Topic: Upcoming Hypnos releases?  (Read 19325 times)

Wanterkeelt

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2009, 11:55:05 AM »
I see, so for example - I don't know if this is doable without too much work - you could for the future releases still get a certain number of "back covers" - like a few hundreds - printed and give the die-hard fan the option to additionally acquire the back cover for a few cents more... just an idea


mgriffin

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2009, 02:10:49 PM »
No, it would not be feasible to have just the tray cards (or as you call them, back covers) printed professionally, as it would come to at least $200-300 to print a minimum order, and if (as I believe) we werent able to sell many, then the price we would charge would never allow us to pay for the printing. 

But if we expected only to have a small number of customers request "old fashioned" packaging with full booklet, tray card and jewel case, we could print and trim them ourselves, as long as we only had to make a few this way.

I really think 90 out of 100 would be OK without the tray card, 9 more out of those 100 would download and print their own tray card, and we'd be looking at maybe 1 out of 100 who wanted a tray card but couldn't print a high-quality tray card themselves and would want to buy one pre-printed and pre-cut.
[ Mike Griffin, Hypnos Recordings ] email mg (at) hypnos.com | http://hypnos.com | http://twitter.com/mgsoundvisions

Wanterkeelt

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2009, 03:26:25 PM »
The last part of your message sounds great to me. Let's just hope then not too many people are like me, as I see your estimations maybe a bit too low (1%).

ffcal

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2009, 07:06:53 PM »
I like the cardboard/pressboard sleeve idea.  I think that Bruce Licher of Savage Republic has had done some especially interesting things with letterpress and silkscreening.  If a jewel case is no longer a viable option, I prefer the idea of a more personal art package look.  One problem I have with the sleeve + booklet and disc idea is that the customer seems to be getting less.  Some of the Celestial Harmonies discs packaged in half-sized trays looked kind of anemic to me.  Maybe there would be a way to combine letterpress with a rice-lined sleeve for the disc so that potential scratching would not be an issue.

My personal preference is still the old fashioned replacable plastic tray, but, then, again, I still like my old school vinyl, too.

Forrest

drone on

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2009, 03:28:13 PM »
Two thumbs up on the current plan for Hypnos packaging.  Good design. I say go for it.  :)

LNerell

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2009, 01:09:18 PM »
Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears to me you are trading a tray card and jewel case for just a paper sleeve, which of course over time will become torn and will probably loose its contents. Also, how will you be printing the booklets, with an ink jet printer? Something better one hopes. I'm with Forest, I would prefer something more interesting and will last longer. I've had no issues with Digipaks or cardboard sleeves over time, paper or plastic sleeves are another story, they just don't last.
Take care.

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mgriffin

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2009, 01:49:51 PM »
Booklet printing will be done on the same color laser printer we use for Hypnos Secret Sounds booklets, though we will probably use heavier paper, more similar to what we have used in the past for Hypnos releases.  When HSS first started years ago we used an inkjet but that printer didn't work well outputting large print runs, and inkjet inks smears when it gets wet.  With the color laser, the ink is at least as waterfast as commercially printed materials, and looks good too.

Yes, a paper envelope is less durable than a plastic case, but we'll figure out a way of providing envelopes for people in case they wear out.  We'll either sell them for our cost (3 for a dollar or something) or we'll throw in a replacement envelope on request with a future order.  There's no reason the printed materials and CD shouldn't last as long as they would in a plastic case.  And I disagree about digipaks being durable, at least in my experience.  With digipaks, the printed material is right there on the surface, subject to scuffing, denting, dog-eared edges, water damage, and fingerprint oils, every time you handle the CD package.

At any rate, continuing with the way things were would have just resulted in Hypnos releasing fewer and fewer CDs, and shifting more of our releases over to the Hypnos Secret Sounds end of things.  But because many of our customers don't like CDRs, I didn't really like that option.
[ Mike Griffin, Hypnos Recordings ] email mg (at) hypnos.com | http://hypnos.com | http://twitter.com/mgsoundvisions

LNerell

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2009, 02:57:49 PM »
And I disagree about digipaks being durable, at least in my experience.  With digipaks, the printed material is right there on the surface, subject to scuffing, denting, dog-eared edges, water damage, and fingerprint oils, every time you handle the CD package.

I think they are as durable as LP jackets were, jewel cases also show simliar age problems (scratches, cracks, etc.) but their advantage is they are easily replaced. I can understand the need to save money, I just think the paper sleeve is going to cause more issues down the road then it solves. It will provide no real protection to the CD, unlike something that is thicker like card stock.
Take care.

- Loren Nerell

Numina

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2009, 12:51:14 PM »
Just chiming in here to comment on this unfortunate news. I will happily continue to support good old Hypnos but I much MUCH prefer a proper CD. Even I use CDR based releases From time to time but when I work particularly hard on a release it is my preference to release it as a real CD.

Again, this is no slight against Hypnos at all, but I am not happy with this news.

Jesse

cromag

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2009, 04:19:25 PM »
My sister is involved in the graphic arts and I've seen lots of that "faux vellum" -- it looks good and should do the job.  I would then probably put (most of) the CDs in my own jewel cases.  No problem printing up the tray card -- I download a lot of music (legally, I hasten to add) and print up enough tray cards and inserts that I have it down to a routine.


I understand the economics involved, but I'd pay extra for true CDs.


EDIT:  Corrected my spelling.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 06:17:59 PM by cromag »
Science News, Vol. 175, No. 9, April 25, 2009, page 1 -- "New mapping of the human genome shows none of us are normal."

mgriffin

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2009, 05:32:39 PM »
Just chiming in here to comment on this unfortunate news. I will happily continue to support good old Hypnos but I much MUCH prefer a proper CD. Even I use CDR based releases From time to time but when I work particularly hard on a release it is my preference to release it as a real CD.

Again, this is no slight against Hypnos at all, but I am not happy with this news.

Jesse

Jesse, it looks like you might have mis-read the news, or else I'm mis-reading your remarks.

We're not switching Hypnos releases from CD to CDR.  We're just going with more minimal packaging on our pressed-CD Hypnos releases.

In fact, if your bias is against CDR rather than the matter of packaging, this will result in more of the music that we release going out on Hypnos CD rather than Hypnos Secret Sounds CDR, so it should make this category of listener happier.  My hope is that even those who doubt this new style of packaging will be to their liking may actually find it to be nicer than they expected.
[ Mike Griffin, Hypnos Recordings ] email mg (at) hypnos.com | http://hypnos.com | http://twitter.com/mgsoundvisions

Numina

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2009, 09:05:12 PM »
Ah, ok. I thought the discs themselves were going to CDr based. That does make it better. However I still much prefer the original package.

It seems like the cost for a 1,000 copy pressing is rather inexpensive these days and easy to break even should be easily attainable (but I of course have no idea of sales figures).

I occassionally download illegally but I have yet to find a Hypnos title in any torrents. Hypnos isn't a highly bootlegged label from what I have observed because I do like to search for my Hypnos releases on torrents but can't find any or Viridian Sun either! My point being that it would seem that people actually do purchase the title vs. illegal downloads.

What do I know though.

petekelly

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2009, 07:19:29 AM »
Jesse,

These days, I think the vast majority of ambient artists would be pushed to sell 1000 CDs.

Mike, out of interest, why have you held back on the mooted Hypnos download store ?

cheers
Pete

Numina

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2009, 08:15:56 AM »
Of course. Selling 1,000 is a long term investment but it seems to me 200-250 units over the course of a year or two ought to be reachable and that many units should easily meet or exceed the break even point.

Jesse

drone on

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2009, 11:50:37 AM »
These days I have been storing all my newly bought digipaks and other cardboard packaged releases in plastic sleeves, and this seems to do the job.  The sleeves keep packages from becoming torn up, dirty, or frayed around the edges.  Therefore, I still think Mike's idea is excellent, especially when it means facilitating more Hypnos releases in the future. 

drkappa

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2009, 03:03:04 PM »
Some of the digipacks can be far more attractive than the traditional CD case.
The products from say Ultimae and Manikin labels in Europe are two examples.

I've tried downloads, but found the creation of the CDr messy, trying to make
the print outs fit into the box, doing the cutting and getting the folds in the
right places.  Worse of all was the disc art.  Besides achieving the circular cuts,
the glues I have don't last and it would affect playing of the discs as labels
detach.  Then I had to rename long file names with spaces to something more
Unix friendly.  All in in took far longer than the saving, so I stopped, and waited to
the sales where you could buy the complete CDr and artwork at reasonable
prices.

I've had far higher breakage rate of the CD gripper with traditional jewel boxes
than digipack.  Broken cases are all too common.

Yes the edges if digipacks can get messed a little, especially for nerds like me who
keep the CDs in order so I can find them.  So there's lots of moving in and out of
racks that does scrap edges---some gaps in the racks are tighter than others---so
now I keep most in boxes or piles on bookcases.  One digipack's slot for its booklet
wasn't deep enough, so it keeps twisting leading to bends and creases, and
hence further damage, and jamming in the storage rack.   This is an exception.
I've not felt the need to protect them in plastic cases. 

Call me old fashioned, but often there's more than the music.  I like the whole
package that comes with a CD (even if the artwork and text is small compared
with the LP).  That tradition comes from the LP where we'd eagerly peruse the
art and photographs, and gobble any additional information.  There was a ritual
when you bought an new album.  The digipack is a bit like that, only smaller.

CDr's don't seem to last as long as CDs, not that I've encountered many glitches
and hangups, but percentagewise the CDr has caused more problems.

An important factor for we importing foreigners is the relative weights.  Will the
proposed new format be lighter?  That said even with the avoidance of postage,
I don't like downloads.
Malcolm Currie
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9dragons

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2009, 06:33:41 PM »
As someone who is fed up with the jewel case I have nothing but praise for the new format. Those vellum envelopes are very cool, I actually like the way the art gets fuzzed out behind them. I have always liked the card stock hypnos used for the jewel case releases, so I hope that heavy weight paper style continues. My one suggestion would be to have the booklet contain a few more pages than did the previous jewel case releases. I've always admired your art sense and choice of fonts Mike, so more of that is a good thing. As for durability, I think these will hold up fine. I have a lot of albums that are just in paper sleeves such as this; I store them in a different section, but I like how little space they take up. Less art is a problem with these small sleeves, but that could be remedied by a bigger booklet, or even an accordion fold insert. By limiting the art to being printable at home, it does limit what you can do, but I think a quite satisfactory, and elegant product can be made within these parameters, and it looks like you have thoroughly thought it out. I would certainly purchase it. Bravo to Hypnos for being willing to try something new.

That said, I am really starting to love what Stumptown Printers in Portland can do for really not a lot of money. You can get a thousand 4 panel (w/one color printing) already assembled digisleeves (with printable spine) for $882. But having that limitation on color would also not fit with the Hypnos art style, and you have the space limitation as well. I also like the arigato packs that they make. A thousand of those printed one color is only $510. They are mini boxes basically that require no glue for assembly, and they are recycled paper, and without the glue they can be recycled again.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 06:37:34 PM by 9dragons »

mgriffin

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2009, 03:07:21 PM »
It's still possible we'll explore other packaging options in the future, such as letterpress or other special options.  I'd love to do a limited box set of some kind, at some point in the future.

For now, though, it's nice to set aside this question of what to do about the packaging, and just get back to planning a bunch of CDs to come out soon!
[ Mike Griffin, Hypnos Recordings ] email mg (at) hypnos.com | http://hypnos.com | http://twitter.com/mgsoundvisions

petekelly

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2009, 02:05:40 AM »
Mike,

Packaging aside, I'm still curious about the Hypnos download store idea.

Pete

mgriffin

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Re: Upcoming Hypnos releases?
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2009, 12:09:49 PM »
We definitely haven't set aside the idea, Pete, though it's been on the back burner for a while.  Lena and I talk about it all the time, about setting aside the time to get the ball rolling, and working together to gradually get most/all of the Hypnos discs up there for sale, then working on non-Hypnos downloads.

I really wish I had some progress to report, other than we're talking about it more often and I hope to have something to say soon.

It will be at www.soundswim.com by the way.
[ Mike Griffin, Hypnos Recordings ] email mg (at) hypnos.com | http://hypnos.com | http://twitter.com/mgsoundvisions