CDR prices too high

[9dragons]

Thanks for the information Mike, it is much appreciated, and thanks to treibklang (welcome to the forum!) and Seren for further info. Forrest, thanks for the encouragement, good to know there are those out there who like the fine packaging. This is a fun kind of experiment, and seeing how it turns out holds part of the interest for me.

Llistened to Tones for LaMonte today and it was exquisite as every, inspiring my work...

Now to check out those "synthetic stone" cds...

[mgriffin]

I'm wondering how many people will be convinced to buy a CDR release if the price is lower.

I'm also curious how much better a given release, by a given artist, would sell in CD format as compared to CDR.  One thing we'd like to do with our simplified Hypnos CD packaging, is release some of the stuff that would have been on Hypnos Secret Sounds in the past, on Hypnos in the future.  For example, the Deepspace album The Glittering Domain has sold pretty well, enough that in retrospect, we could just as well have released it on CD instead of CDR.

For some things like reissues or obscure live recordings or whatever, I still think CDR makes sense.  But maybe for some things, we'll release them on Hypnos in a pressed CD and see how many people pick it up, who might not have bought it on CDR.

[Numina]

I think $10 is apprpriate for CDRs... problem I have is the increasing cost in shipping!  I think it's about 75 cents more than just a couple years ago.  It totally eats into what little profit, if any, that's left for someone like me who doesn't charge for shipping.

[jimzzzak]

Hi.

...don't get me started on this thread

I'm still ripping music into my Squeezebox music server.  I currently have over 67,000 files on the server.  My experience with a few CD-Rs has been bad, but also a few pressed CDs have not held up to the test of time.  The CD-Rs that were bad were mainly from one artist/label.  So in terms of durability, I don't see a big difference between pressed CDs and CD-Rs.

I also download FLAC files and lately due to space limitations for storage of physical media, I am increasingly in favor of downloaded files.  Naturally they need to be redundantly backed up.  I store them on the music server's hard drive, my main computer's hard drive, and I burn them to DVD-R.

Based on my experiences over the last couple of years as I assemble and use my music server (which in my opinion is the best way to listen to music in the 21st century), the transport medium for music is not important.

[Sunbreak Music]

One of the reasons people can have issues with playing CDRs isn't really the format itself (nor the player), but rather from "bad burns" as a result of either poor media quality, poor burner quality, or a combination of the two.

Replicated discs play better, but if someone is using TY discs and error checking the burns, it's doubtful there would be an issue.  I would certainly trust a duplicator's run over someone burning their own from their home computer.

But I would buy lossless downloads before ever buying a CDR for the reasons above. 

[Altus]

OT, but I figured it was worth mentioning regarding safe storage of discs:
Everyone knows sunlight is a big no-no when it comes to optical media, but did you know that all light (even artificial) very slowly degrades the dye in burnt media (CD and DVD).  For the most part this is a non-issue because the degradation is almost non-existent, but those who greatly value their backups might feel that much more safe storing their media in a dark space.

[uhurit]

Not to rub salt etc, I've been burned buying garbage CD-r's from two European "self-produced' ambient musicians that don't post here any longer, it seems.
Would not buy their stuff, period. Horrendous CD-r quality, shitty attitude when notified about problems.
Never a problem with Hypnos releases, though

[drone on]

I can guess who they were, especially concerning the "shitty attitude," but I'll just keep my mouth shut (for once). 

[jkn]

oh c'mon - you can't throw that out there and not tell me!   private message me please.  ;-)

regardless, out of the absolutely stupid number of cdr albums I've bought or been generously sent over the years... the only ones I've ever had problems with are the older thicker discs with thicker labels which I had problems with slide in cd player in my car.   I notified the label that was doing it and they realized they'd bought thicker stuff and changed for future runs.  All was well.

otherwise - I've really never had one fail.    oh ... ok - yes - I have had data errors on one of my comptuter backups I'd made in maybe 1999 or 2000.     

[1000snakes]

JKN,
  If you own a copy of Lumen by Vir Unis you might check it.    I have had a few others go bad, both Matthew Harris' discs for instance, but most have held up. I will probably continue to buy CDR releases but high quality downloads are looking better all the time...Who said that???
Peace, Kirk

[Brian Bieniowski]

My Lumen died too, which was a shame because I really enjoyed that release a lot.  After a while it was completely unplayable (and I used to play it a lot).  I had a few James Johnson discs die on me, as well as an Oöphoi or two.  Taught me to make backups, that's for sure.  I sold most of that stuff on eBay before I had more mishaps.  By the same token, I have a few DataObscura and Atmoworks CDRs from the same vintage that work perfectly well.  So who knows.

[drone on]

Atmoworks replaced my Lumen when mine died, put onto a standard CDR instead of the 3-inch. i'd try contacting them.

[Seren]

Checked mine - still good, but have started checking and ripping all my CDr discs.

[Seren]

  did not want a huge library stored on the computer so tried deleting library files - Windows did not ask me if I wanted to delete just the library or the actual files from computer and it deleted the lot.... ....two days of work dissapeared......

Anyway managed to set it up so it does not do it again - luckily the computer recognises the discs already backed up so I don't have to do all the typing again - just click the button - so not as bad as my swear words anticipated.

[jkn]

I'll have to check Lumen - it worked a year ago when I did a big play all my 3" cdr's day (my favorite 3" is a Dark Duck x-series - I think it's Unreleased X - although I might have the title wrong).   They all worked then.

I have most of the AtmoWorks releases (been friends with that Vir Unis goofball since we were 15) - and yeah - the early AW releases - a few of them they did thick cdr's with thick labels - and a few people complained and got replacements.  They changed their media after that.   Of course - that was like 8 or 9 years ago.

Then again - now - I've been ripping all my discs to my iPod - which is absolutely amazing!   Yes - it's lower audio quality on my iPod dock at work... but I used to have 400-600 cd's here in my cube... which was a royal pain.   Now I have a ton on my iPod - and frankly - I listen at such low volume it's ok.  I did get a decent iPod dock so the audio quality is very nice.   

[MPECK]

If it weren't for CD-R there is  A LOT of music in my collection that would have never seen the light of day.. meaning it may never have been released. So, with that in mind, I think it's a viable format. And I do agree that a downloaded album with no artwork should be priced much lower, no figure or amount just lower. And from a small label outlook, it makes sense to do small runs of 50-100 on CD-R rather than commiting to the higher price of CD. Luckily, those numbers have changed and it is now much more affordable to do CD vs. CD-R. I've also noticed some people (labels, radio, review sites) approach CD-R with a very elitist attitude as if the quality of the music is sub par. Their loss in my opinion.

[deepspace]

If it weren't for CD-R there is  A LOT of music in my collection that would have never seen the light of day.. meaning it may never have been released.

I agree with that statement.  CD-R allows labels to 'try out' artists that may otherwise incur a risk.  I think as time passes, the CD-R's will get better anyway.  I've already noticed a big difference over the last couple of years, at least from the 'person releasing music on them' end, in terms of burn accuracy.  Having said that, If you've been burned (excuse the pun) once as a customer, it's kind of hard to go back.

[Scott Raymond]

Mike -

  As a DJ, I don't mind CD-R's at all. Better to have the music to play than not at all. Nowadays, downloading is becoming more and more prevalent to me. Somewhere between a third to a half of the music I get these days is download, either from the artist/label or sites like emusic, musiczeit, etc. CD-R's may become a thing of the past someday. Something to think about.

Scott Raymond
WVKR-FM