Author Topic: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story  (Read 19763 times)

Blackinfinity

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Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« on: March 05, 2010, 06:38:07 AM »
http://www.capitalismalovestory.com/



have any one watched it yet ?

The conclusion of the whole film is that the capitalism system is a really bad an Immoral
system that leads to no good.. only for that top 1%...the common people have no benefit of it.
Socialism is the solution and a better system.

Think what you want, I must say I am proud to not be a part of the US, and that I live in an socialist country (Sweden).
We may have high taxes but we have a welfare worth it's name!
The alternative would be to let all these tax money go to the free market and that top 1% elite instead of the common people.

To me it is obvious that the economic system of the US is a joke, and the only people a benefit of it is the top 1%
The whole economy system seem to be a total scam to me.

Sunbreak Music

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2010, 08:11:29 AM »
Does this forum do this type of thing?
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Blackinfinity

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2010, 08:19:12 AM »
Does this forum do this type of thing?

yes why not ?

ffcal

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2010, 08:46:30 AM »
The "no holds barred" section was deleted many moons ago.  This topic would probably qualify for that section.

Forrest

Seren

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2010, 09:26:15 AM »
It got unpleasantly heated...

mgriffin

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2010, 10:45:49 AM »
Yeah, we really don't need to get into a "your country sucks" or "your political party sucks" debate here.  It ends up causing all kinds of problems and driving away a lot people who want to keep it civil.

If you want to talk about this movie, that's fine, and if you want to discuss the idea that it can be detrimental for a society to become too dominated by large corporations, that's fine too, as long as long as it doesn't get into shit-talking other forum member, or juvenile "you suck" talk of the kind mentioned above.  And in case I haven't made it clear, I think posting things like "the economic system of the US is a joke" is not only simple-minded, but not appropriate for this forum.

I should point out that I plan to watch this movie soon and generally agree that the increasing power of corporations is a problem.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 11:04:01 AM by mgriffin »
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LNerell

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2010, 11:00:41 AM »
The conclusion of the whole film is  . . .

I just hate it when someone gives away the ending to a film I haven't watched yet.  ;D
Take care.

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Sunbreak Music

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2010, 02:18:31 PM »
It ends up causing all kinds of problems and driving away a lot people who want to keep it civil.
Consider me driven.  I don't need to see the conversation devolve more than presented in the first post.
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mgriffin

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2010, 02:53:44 PM »
It's really not OK either way to get into a "Your country sucks, mine is better" type of argument.
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michael sandler

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2010, 02:56:32 PM »
The conclusion of the whole film is  . . .

I just hate it when someone gives away the ending to a film I haven't watched yet.  ;D

There's not usually much suspense in how a MM film will go...(movie criticism, not a political comment).

MikeS

judd stephens

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2010, 04:27:47 PM »
Michael Moore's movie indicts Capitalism, but I would argue that the system in this country (US) is not true, free market, competetive-based capitalism.  I've been intrigued a lot by certain politicians, economists, and "intellectuals" lately who advocate the small government free market system.

A lot of what I say, I can't claim discovering this solely on my own, but it makes too much sense for me to ignore.  Whenever you have the Federal Reserve (a government-created entity) setting interest rates rather than the market, that cannot be called free market capitalism.   Government created Fannie Mae and Freddy Mack, and they went bankrupt loaning money to people who couldn't afford the homes they were buying.  They were the largest buyers of sub-prime mortgages.  Governments guaranteeing all bank loans is also not a free market.  It creates what is known as a "moral hazard", 'cause banks, who normally would be more careful about their credit and who they lend it out to, can now be more reckless and speculate. 

Goldman Sachs getting bailed out, now once again is free to speculate with the taxpayers money, and last year they made record profits.  The connections between our politicians' ties to Goldman Sachs is equally suspect as the last administrations ties to Haliburton and co.  It's ultra-shady, and it's not free market- capitalism.  If we were in a truly capitalist system, you run the risk of losing too.  Not with our government.  You get bailed out if your inneficient and lose money.  It's the exact opposite of "survival of the fittest"- it's survival of the most well-connected.  What we have here is sometimes called crony-capitalism, or fascism, but either way, the government combines with big business- you cannot remove the government from the equation of what happened here. 

With regard to what some are saying here, that capitalism is bad because of our system, and socialsm is good because of the European nations who have a nice welfare state, well what about socialist states that have been an absolute repression on their citizens?  I don't even have to mention them by name.  History has shown beyond a doubt that socialism can be a tool to favor a certain elite class while impoverishing everyone else (which is the accusation so often hurled at capitalism but you have to ask what part of capitalism is responsible, exactly?)   And why is it, especially after a country comes out of the ashes of such repression, that as its markets get freer, the standard of living for the people gradually gets better?  Just askin'...

And finally with regard to healthcare, I'd argue that we nothing like free markets are at work here in our country, but that is for another post.  Looking forward to coming home and reading responses tonight (maybe  ;)

cromag

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2010, 05:11:13 PM »
One of my grandfathers was born in Sweden, so I don't plan on doing any bashing!

I haven't seen the movie, and don't intend to.  Michael Moore is no more serious political commentator than Rush Limbaugh, IMHO.  ;)

I think unregulated "free" enterprise is every bit as bad as unrestricted socialism.  In between there's lots to be said for (and against) most middle ground options.  Suffice it to say I like it here -- and I'll like it better when we get the healthcare mess straightened out!
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LNerell

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2010, 10:57:57 PM »
. . .  well what about socialist states that have been an absolute repression on their citizens?  I don't even have to mention them by name. 

Actually please do, I would like to know who you are referring to here. Also remember, their have been lots of pro-capitalist states that have been very repressive of their citizens.
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Blackinfinity

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2010, 11:43:55 PM »
There is good and bad example of socialism...

Countries that have been proven to use this system well is Norway, Sweden, Denmark,Finland, Germany etc.
Even a good system can fall if they are ruled by idiotic and corrupt politicians.

I did just read this mind blowing fact...that as unemployed in Norway, you receive $2400 From the state tax free...it is absolutely insane... After reading this I am seriously considering to apply for an Norwegian citizenship.. I live only 3 hours away from the Norwegian Border.....there is absolute no need to work if you live in Norway that is for sure, it is all because of the Oil and of course becaose of a good working socialistic system.which is just a growing gold mine..and it is not until the last 3-4 years that we have seen noticeable effects of their wealth the oil have giving them.

judd stephens

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2010, 01:49:25 AM »
. . .  well what about socialist states that have been an absolute repression on their citizens?  I don't even have to mention them by name. 

Actually please do, I would like to know who you are referring to here. Also remember, their have been lots of pro-capitalist states that have been very repressive of their citizens.

Any country that has used socialism, or the socialist party, to brutalize and oppress the opposition.  How would you like to be something other than a socialist individual in Venezuela or China, even today?  Do you think it would be fun?  Socialist countries can be dominated by the 'tyranny of the majority', or an elite class.  Maybe it's like what I'm arguing though about what really is a free market (or capitalism)- maybe each other's views get distorted here.

Seren

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2010, 06:41:13 AM »
As long as power and resources (in whatever form) are more important than people and lives then it does not matter what political system is 'run'.......

Blackinfinity

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2010, 09:43:08 AM »
. . .  well what about socialist states that have been an absolute repression on their citizens?  I don't even have to mention them by name.

Actually please do, I would like to know who you are referring to here. Also remember, their have been lots of pro-capitalist states that have been very repressive of their citizens.

Any country that has used socialism, or the socialist party, to brutalize and oppress the opposition.  How would you like to be something other than a socialist individual in Venezuela or China, even today?  Do you think it would be fun?  Socialist countries can be dominated by the 'tyranny of the majority', or an elite class.  Maybe it's like what I'm arguing though about what really is a free market (or capitalism)- maybe each other's views get distorted here.

Well, China is not even an Democracy, and only one party is allowed...so it is a really bad example, the countries I did mention above are all democratic countries, using Parliamentary democracy + Socialism.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 09:45:07 AM by Blackinfinity »

Blackinfinity

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Re: Michael Moore - Capitalism: A Love Story
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2010, 01:15:43 PM »
regarding the so called American pseudo-democracy I did see an interesting documentary last night "Hacking Democracy"

http://sprword.com/videos/hackingdemocracy/
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 01:19:59 PM by Blackinfinity »

Mark Mushet

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Socialized Medicine in Canada (was: Capitalism: A Love Story)
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2010, 12:15:22 PM »
Let me guess, everyone in Sweden drives the same car, makes the same amount of income, has to live in government assigned homes, if you break your arm it will take over a month to get it in a cast since your health care system is too bogged down, etc.  That's what the right wing in the U.S. has led the weak-minded people to believe.

Seriously. In January I broke both arms in a cycling accident. My right arm needed specialist reconstruction w/ titanium. The care was immediate and first rate and I was never worried about financial ruin. The hitch came last week when I needed an adjustable brace to crank my arm to regain range. It wasn't covered due to US patent protection on...a knob. It's a Mayo Clinic design that costs $450. Those who are my FB friends can see pics. Its not a specialist item for which millions were required to motivate and pay designers. Yet it is essential for my recovery. Is it greed? I don't know. But I do know that our system isn't allowed to cover it. I can afford the extra fees but many cannot. I will pass it on to one without extended benefits when I'm done.

Civilized nations are not afraid to add a bit of "socialism" to ensure people can get back on their feet again to make money and buy guns. And I like all three of those things.

P.S. Ted Nugent's favourite handgun (think of his song "Kiss my Glock") is designed and made in a European nation with socialized healthcare and which recognizes same sex marriage. Of course, he's too stupid to see the irony.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 01:09:41 PM by Mark Mushet »

michael sandler

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Re: Socialized Medicine in Canada (was: Capitalism: A Love Story)
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2010, 03:37:36 PM »
P.S. Ted Nugent's favourite handgun (think of his song "Kiss my Glock")...

Isn't that one of those plastic guns that melt if you leave it on the dashboard on a sunny day?