Author Topic: Which is it??  (Read 2024 times)

einstein36

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Which is it??
« on: November 25, 2010, 09:55:19 AM »
I have kind of switched gears from music to creative writing and was reading yesterday about one's craft in that do you do it for the fame and money or do you do it for the love of it???
If you do love your craft and look around at the other people that are doing it just for the fame and money, do you have despise for them??

Esp since our art is ever changing from what we use to know to new things, so would one continue writing for your craft even though you know maybe the art you love is dying???

I would love to hear from listeners too about what they think...
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sraymar

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Re: Which is it??
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2010, 05:09:29 PM »
I don't have a problem with the reasons people do their art. I'd say all ambient artists are in it for the love of the "dying" art. The cool thing about an art form is that it evolves so you always have new territory to explore although you may have to have a seperate income source.

I've heard recently that in this century one in three people will have type 2 diabetes, and the testosterone levels of the average 40 year old are that of a 70 year old man. Looks like bad diet and pollution are taking their toll and we will either thin out the herd(which wouldn't be a bad thing) or die off completely along with all art forms.
Ambient isn't just for technicians!

The artist isn't a special kind of man, but every man is a special kind of artist.

Don't be afraid to grow, give yourself a chance.

drone on

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Re: Which is it??
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2010, 12:43:43 AM »
Gee that was cheery.

matthew

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Re: Which is it??
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2010, 02:36:55 AM »
The question for me skips a step; the drive which brings one to a "creative-position" to begin with. Unless art is an income, in which case commercial considerations are a smart necessity, I don't think there's any need to look beyond yourself.

I can speak for myself in that I have yet to release (not create mind you) an album that didn't come from an undefined need: As the Germans express it so profoundly, from a "sturm und drang" to create. I have indeed made albums for the sake of creation, working with music etc. and shared parts, bits and pieces of those, but I could never bring myself to  released them as such. The stimulation and excitement, the emotion of working on those is simply different.

Any other consideration than the "need" could result in very fine craftsmanship, but usually find it lacking in expression and emotion. I know this is a very personal view and I don't mean to write this as a motivational or "rule" for anyone else but myself. Which is another thing about creative expression; it follows such private motivations that when true to those, there's no such thing as invalid, averse or wrong. In the same way that there's no such thing as a bad piece of personal creativity. I might not like it, which is another thing entirely, but true personal expression cannot be bound by the same rules that apply to craftsmanship or professionalism.

So; if you "do it" for fame, I consider irrelevant. If that is ones personal drive, one strong enough to exceed the sum of creativity and craftemanship then the resulting work (or art if you will) has validity for me. If I like it or not is really just taste.

Despise as such is too strong a word for me to use, but I might understand what you mean. I used to feel that too when younger, the arrogance of youth in my case. These days I try to concentrate on what I like. I might not get exposed to new things so often any more and "what-I-like" is more narrow than ever but I have let go of the idea that simply because I like a narrow slice of a certain genre means the rest could have no merit.

Interesting topic!

Good luck with the writing!

petekelly

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Re: Which is it??
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2010, 08:31:10 AM »

The subject of expectation of how one's work is received, is one I dwell on too (as I imagine a lot of artists do as well). For me, a healthy approach is to just keep at it - finish one album - start another and repeat. Having another creative
outlet helps (photography in my case). 

When I lived in Leeds I knew a lot of artists and they were just driven to do their work and some had been at it it for
30/40 years. I try to see things in the long(ish) term and strive to improve over time.

On the subject of making any kind of living from being an ambient artist, I like
Robert Rich's comment that he makes as much money a year as a garbage man - but he
doesn't smell as bad ! As for 'fame' (in ambience) I don't think that's really applicable here.

If you're doing something that's true to yourself, no matter how 'well' things are
going (or not), it's a whole lot better than trying to achieve 'success' by
jumping on the bandwagon of ephemeral popularity / emulating an existing artist or
trend.   

cheers
Pete

mgriffin

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Re: Which is it??
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2010, 10:23:12 AM »
I think if you're creating art in a niche genre, or a less popular form, and expecting to get rich from it, you're kidding yourself.

Even in more popular form, such as mystery or romance novels, only the top few percent actually make any money at it.

Bottom line, if you're a struggling, unestablished creative person, and you're sitting around thinking about deriving wealth from your creative pursuits, you're kidding yourself.  It's like a teenage kid bouncing a basketball in the driveway and daydreaming about being Lebron James. There are millions of other people dreaming the same thing, and unless you're more talented than them, and luckier, you're not going to be the one to cash in on that dream.

If we're talking writing rather than music, it's hard enough just to get published, let alone make any money from it. So unless you're already so good that you're already getting your work published all over the place, and everything you write finds a ready market, you're kidding yourself by thinking that shifting gears to a more commercial mindset is suddenly going to result in success.
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einstein36

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Re: Which is it??
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2010, 10:41:04 AM »
These are some good comments guys...keep them coming...
Yeah, I totally agree in that we are doing it for the art..for the love of it...

Mike: my gear switching change is not for the money, etc, but something I have loved since I was little doing is creating fictional worlds and try to let other people enjoy them as much as I have....
like what was said before...we all use are different creative methods, being either music, photography, writing, etc, but we all love our craft...

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mgriffin

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Re: Which is it??
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2010, 10:47:03 AM »
I understand you weren't saying you changed to make money. I'm saying that even if a struggling, unknown artist decides to "cash in," it doesn't work. There are already so many skilled professionals doing anything it takes to make their work commercially viable that a beginner can't cut to the head of the line even if they want to.
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False Mirror

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Re: Which is it??
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2010, 12:37:48 PM »
There are already so many skilled professionals doing anything it takes to make their work commercially viable that a beginner can't cut to the head of the line even if they want to.
Well I think that view is a bit too pessimistic. Assuming it would be true and beginners didn't have any chances at all, there wouldn't be anyone making money with his creative work. A good friend of mine just got his first novel published, so there ARE chances if you are good enough. Of course luck and relations are factors too, but I think if you are good enough and there's some market for your art, there are chances enough to make money with it.
Speaking of reasons to make art... of course there are many people who mainly do it for the money (although I think only a few of them ONLY do it for the money) and I absolutely respect anybody who has found ways to successfully exploit himself/herself and make a living for it. You have to know that this isn't that easy as it may look at the first glance, for example you'd always have to fear your next work could be a flop.
To me making music is part of a self-actualization and self-healing process. I have to do it, there's something inside that wants to be transformed into music. If I wouldn't make any music, I'd most probably be depressed and unsatisfied. Although I do get some money for my music, it's merely a little additional pocket money. Of course I could give the music away for free (and I already did with my very first 'Gras - Gras' album which is available for free download), but I think that way it would lose some value (but that's a totally different topic we had already discussed a few times here I think).

mgriffin

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Re: Which is it??
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2010, 03:14:54 PM »
I didn't mean only the established can succeed. I was saying I think it's a misconception of many struggling artists, musicians or writers that all one must do to attain massive commercial success is simply decide to be commercially motivated. In my opinion, it's a sour grapes sort of reaction, like saying, "well, if I wanted that success, of course I could have it, but my standards are too lofty."

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petekelly

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Re: Which is it??
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2010, 04:32:13 AM »

I think its important to aspire, Sure, if you looked at things in the cold light of day the odds of doing 'well' in any artistic endevour are very low. I know pretty much nothing about publishing, but you hear these stories about 'unknowns' writing their first novel and it becoming very well received.

I think ambient is a special case, but it seems the likes of Fennez and Stars of the Lid have some clout away from the Roach/Rich side of things and look at Eno and Budd. If you want to try to 'cash in', a band/production venture would be more appropriate than making 'Ambient 5 - music for adverts' :)