Author Topic: State of the music business  (Read 20245 times)

jkn

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Re: State of the music business
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2008, 10:22:05 AM »
I had a brief moment to chat with my co-worker who is going to be looking into this and he thinks it'll work.   That's about all I know about it at the moment though.   

I will definitely report back in a week or so after he's had a chance to look into it.
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mgriffin

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Re: State of the music business
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2008, 10:25:50 AM »
Everyone you ask about this says "It SHOULD work, let me check into it" and then says "No, it's not as easy as I thought."  ;)

At least that's my experience.
[ Mike Griffin, Hypnos Recordings ] email mg (at) hypnos.com | http://hypnos.com | http://twitter.com/mgsoundvisions

jkn

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Re: State of the music business
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2008, 10:39:31 AM »
Yep yep yep...   it's a brilliant idea, but it may not work in practice.   I won't go into the details, but I have some good faith in the guy and his son that are playing around with this.   I think they may be on to something. 
John Koch-Northrup .: jkn [AT] johei.com .: owner / artist .: http://relaxedmachinery.com .: http://twitter.com/jkn .: http://flickr.com/johei

LNerell

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Re: State of the music business
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2008, 11:45:02 AM »
Its not looking good for your ISO, when I did a google search asking what is ISO I came up with this:

Quote
Going by the more restrictive definition, an "ISO" is created by copying an entire disc, from sector 0 to the end, into a file. Because the image file contains "cooked" 2048-byte sectors and nothing else, it isn't possible to store anything but a single data track in this fashion. Audio tracks, mixed-mode discs, CD+G, multisession, and other fancy formats can't be represented.


It seems most CD burning software have developed their own ways of working around this, but its not a standard as their are several variations. You can read the whole text here:

http://www.magiciso.com/tutorials/miso-whatiso.htmhttp://

Getting back to CDr vs CD, this just came up on one of the mastering forums I frequently visit. Someone complained that the replicated CDs he gets back from the plant sound better then the CDrs he burns at his studio. After doing a null test it appears that his CDrs are prone to have jitter when they are burned, producing a smeared sound compared to the replicated CDs.

Also t appears that 1x & 2x rates are not the ideal burn rates anymore, unless you have an old CD burner from the 1990s. These days CDs should be burned at half the max speed of the CD burner, that apparently is the optimal speed. Also it seems most prefer their blank CDrs to be Taiyo Yuden silver media, which they claim to get the best results from for audio.
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Re: State of the music business
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2008, 12:00:08 PM »
Loren, thanks for looking more into the .iso format.  Perhaps I'm not as idealistic about it as I was before.  It's frustrating that there is a standard and yet companies don't adhere to it even when they use that "standard".

Yeah, I just recently talked to a friend of mine about this and he said 1-2x isn't ideal anymore with newer burners.  Seems there's a consensus on that one.  But, I've never heard my music "blurred" from a cd-r.  I've never heard any "jittering" either.  It's not to say I haven't any problems with cdr-s, but in the twelve years I've burned music on a cd-r I've never heard anything like that.  Yeah, Taiyo Yudens are indeed the best cdr-s as far as overall reliability.  But, as far sound quality goes, I can't see how it would make a difference.  I could see how the quality of the burn would affect playback of the cd-r, but not the sound quality. 

mgriffin

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Re: State of the music business
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2008, 12:34:04 PM »
Also t appears that 1x & 2x rates are not the ideal burn rates anymore, unless you have an old CD burner from the 1990s. These days CDs should be burned at half the max speed of the CD burner, that apparently is the optimal speed. Also it seems most prefer their blank CDrs to be Taiyo Yuden silver media, which they claim to get the best results from for audio.

I have read the same thing in more than one place, in other words 16x or 24x is preferable for modern CDR/DVDR burners. 
[ Mike Griffin, Hypnos Recordings ] email mg (at) hypnos.com | http://hypnos.com | http://twitter.com/mgsoundvisions

mgriffin

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Re: State of the music business
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2008, 12:35:50 PM »
Yeah, Taiyo Yudens are indeed the best cdr-s as far as overall reliability.  But, as far sound quality goes, I can't see how it would make a difference.  I could see how the quality of the burn would affect playback of the cd-r, but not the sound quality. 

Audio CD players use on-the-fly error correction, so I guess if your burned disc has a lot more errors than another, but not so many that it's unplayable, that could result in compromised sound quality.
[ Mike Griffin, Hypnos Recordings ] email mg (at) hypnos.com | http://hypnos.com | http://twitter.com/mgsoundvisions

LNerell

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Re: State of the music business
« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2008, 01:22:20 PM »
Loren, thanks for looking more into the .iso format. Perhaps I'm not as idealistic about it as I was before.  It's frustrating that there is a standard and yet companies don't adhere to it even when they use that "standard".

That's not the problem, the problem is the ISO "standard" is not for audio CDs, the ISO standard is for CDroms. Actually their is a standard for redbook CDs called Disc Description Protocol (DDP), but its not the answer you are looking for as its mainly used for disc replication. Here's a discription of DDP:

Quote
Disc Description Protocol (DDP) files are delivered as data on a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM. The error correction employed on data discs is designed to be more robust than that of audio CDs. This ensures that the audio master that the plant gets will not have any errors in the data.

I don't think many if any cheap CD burning software (ie Toast, Nero, etc) supports it.

I've never heard any "jittering" either.

Jitter is a clock issue, the analog world equivilant would be wow and flutter to a lesser degree.
Take care.

- Loren Nerell

Altus

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Re: State of the music business
« Reply #48 on: March 20, 2008, 06:59:19 PM »
Including Windows-only software with the download, even if it's free, would seem like a slap in the face to a significant (and growing) segment of your potential audience.

I completely agree and I was going to make that comment but forgot while doing my googling.   ::)

Regarding the whole ISO "standard" not being standard, I know exactly what you mean.  The idea was that if the ISO you made worked with that freeware ISO burning software, then it's a moot point.  For Mac users, you could provide information such as this:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20060619181010389
Not as elegant but still damn simple, and doesn't require the end-user to install any software which I think is a big plus.  But the question remains is can you make an audio CD ISO that will burn without issue on PC and Mac.

In the end, lets be honest... only those who are serious about sound quality in that they would purchase an ISO over MP3 probably knows how to burn an ISO without help.  But providing these tools and burning info makes the option available to anyone willing to take that step.
Mike Carss -- Altus : aural journeys for the mind's eye
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