Author Topic: 24/192 Downloads...and why they make no sense  (Read 2428 times)


Altus

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Re: 24/192 Downloads...and why they make no sense
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 02:44:09 PM »
Interesting read, and I learned something I didn't know about bit-depth.
I still believe that lossless codecs should be future of distributable/downloaded audio though.  ;)
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zzzone.net

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Re: 24/192 Downloads...and why they make no sense
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2012, 04:47:26 PM »
Interesting read, and I learned something I didn't know about bit-depth.
I still believe that lossless codecs should be future of distributable/downloaded audio though.  ;)

I agree.  However, it seems like there can be too much of a good thing.

Seren

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Re: 24/192 Downloads...and why they make no sense
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2012, 12:34:09 PM »
I saw this posted on another forum.

I think the article needs careful reading -

lots of information but the statement:
'16 bits is enough to span the real hearing range with room to spare. It does not span the entire possible signal range of audio equipment.'
Leads to the question, why spend all that money on developing technology if no one can hear the difference? - easing the engineer's job as explained doesn't really make sense to me.


'I've run across a few articles and blog posts that declare the virtues of 24 bit or 96/192kHz by comparing a CD to an audio DVD (or SACD) of the 'same' recording. This comparison is invalid; the masters are usually different.'
so if you can't compare the different recordings you cant say one is better than the other - similarly you can't say they are worse, which he has said a lot in the article....

in the end I don't care - I just think if the music industry thought MP3 was best they would record in it and they don't. If it's recorded in 24/196 make it available for those who want to listen to it.

someone else posted this link too, bit of a meaty read though
http://media.meridian-audio.com/datasheets/papers/Coding2.PDF

Julio Di Benedetto

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Re: 24/192 Downloads...and why they make no sense
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2012, 09:04:20 AM »
I just read the article.......what strikes me most is that hearing and listing to music is not the same as  data.  Scientific instruments read data and report back hard numerical facts.  WE are analog beings...carbon based.  WE hear with emotion!

'16 bits is enough to span the real hearing range with room to spare. It does not span the entire possible signal range of audio equipment.'
Leads to the question, why spend all that money on developing technology if no one can hear the difference? - easing the engineer's job as explained doesn't really make sense to me.

I agree...this makes no sense, also 16 bits is enough, enough like adequate...well adequate is not good enough.
 
"The primary reason to use 24 bits when recording is to prevent mistakes"....Ouch!  Is that what all the talented and creative audio engineers around the world tell there clients/artists.  A good engineer can handle headroom and digital clipping in any format.

Its been said that recording at 24/192 is the nearest digital technology has come to the quality of  recording to analog tape.  I ask myself what then is all this "wasted space" as the author of the piece puts it used for, apparently nothing as 16bits @ 44.1 will do.  Perhaps it is elements like tape saturation and certain types of distortion inherent in tape that have become the reasoning behind what is called "warmth"  in recordings made in the analog domain and that this quality can only be achieved in the digital domain with higher bit & sample rate......as well as improved sonic detail of course.


ffcal

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Re: 24/192 Downloads...and why they make no sense
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 05:44:22 PM »
I moved up from mostly 16-bit based recording to mostly 24-bit recording this past year after my digital recorder self-destructed, and have noticed an improvement in the depth of my sounds, especially after they have been subjected to post-production edits and manipulation.  There seems to be more "presence," at least when recording acoustic instruments.  I still like to use my 16-bit DAT to record long swaths of improvisation without worrying about chewing up chunks of hard drive space.

Forrest
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 10:01:21 PM by ffcal »

sraymar

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Re: 24/192 Downloads...and why they make no sense
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2012, 05:56:46 PM »
I was walking along a parking lot at Sunset Beach a couple months back at night taking a paper bag full of credit card bills, ATM slips, telephone bills, and other stuff that I didn't want to toss in the garbage for fear of identity theft but instead burn the bag in a firepit on the beach. While walking along there was a little band set up playing a poor rendition of a Pink Floyd tune but what struck me was the sound of the drums echoing away and how real they sounded. I've yet to hear any CD or DVD or movie in a theater come anywhere near sounding that real. The same thing happened in Laguna Beach a few years back at sunset a couple of guys were playing some big congalike drums in a tribal manner and they had this incredible real sound recordings don't capture. All recordings fall short of  the real thing period.

To me all recordings sound like a recording. So why split hairs over 16bit over 24bit? Eventually they'll probably have 128bit recordings that don't sound as real as the real deal. I don't have a problem with recordings sounding like recordings. I'm glad reality will always sound better.


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ffcal

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Re: 24/192 Downloads...and why they make no sense
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2012, 10:02:39 PM »
I'm glad reality will always sound better.

Who says that artists want their music to sound like reality?:)

Forrest

Seren

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Re: 24/192 Downloads...and why they make no sense
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2012, 01:13:13 AM »
I agree that real sound sounds better, whether it is musically organised or not, than recorded sound - but like Forrest I hear a depth/clarity/smoothness in higher resolution that is missing in lower resolutions.

I love the sound of 'silence' in areas without human habitation - but my recordings don't quite pull it all back - even in bitstream.

Similarly I hear a difference listening to music or sound played back on a good stereo system (or headphones) rather than general 'consumer' quality systems.

To hear the intake of breath of a cello player in between phrases and the subtle sounds of their fingers on the strings adds to the pleasure of listening for me and any approach to recording that decides these things are unimportant is a let down, a dumbing down and a lowering of standards and inspiration.

Seren

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Re: 24/192 Downloads...and why they make no sense
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2012, 01:18:25 AM »
and I suppose our attitude to music/sound and it's intent/purpose will heavily influence how we think about these issues - if we want something just playing in the background that we can ignore and is there because we can't stand the silence then we are not going to consider quality or emotional 'investment' as important.

jkn

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Re: 24/192 Downloads...and why they make no sense
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2012, 06:32:17 AM »
I have a friend who often listens to sleepbot - which is a low bit broadcast of ambient stuff.   It's enough for him.

This friend also has an incredible studio and creates top notch recordings.

I love that about him - that difference between listening to sleepbot and then having the amazing studio and equipment.
John Koch-Northrup .: jkn [AT] johei.com .: owner / artist .: http://relaxedmachinery.com .: http://twitter.com/jkn .: http://flickr.com/johei

petekelly

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Re: 24/192 Downloads...and why they make no sense
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2012, 09:47:04 AM »
'Even better than the real thing' ? :)