OTHER THINGS IN THE WORLD THAN MUSIC > Everything and Nothing

How much are you willing to pay for a CDR?

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drone on:
I know this has been brought up before, but:

I buy a lot of music, and still greatly prefer replicated CD's, which do not deteriorate over time, to duplicated CDR's, which are not 100% reliable.  With most labels moving away from using the "sticky labels" now, CDR's going bad isn't as big of a problem anymore.  But there's still the concern...

Since I prefer replicated CD's, I tend to buy them much more frequently.  And due to the high volume of artists/labels I regularly support, CDR releases by obscure and lesser known artists get placed way down on my "want list" usually.  Because the artists are obscure and the releases are on "second-choice" media, I am also not willing to shell out the same amount of cash as the more established artists' releases on standard CD. 

Bottom line: I think $10 is reasonable for these type of releases.  And labels like Hypnos Secret Sounds and Relaxed Machinery are making it fair and feasible to collect more music.  However, when I see 2-CDR sets that sell for $19.99 when the single discs are $9.99, I don't think that's reasonable, or single disc CDR releases going for $13.99, $14.99, etc.  Also, when I see a CDR release selling for $12.99 or $13.99 at the Hypnos store or CDBaby, but I can get it on iTunes for $9.99, I'll get it from iTunes.  To me a paper insert and slimcase isn't worth the extra dough (plus add on shipping).  I admit I did spend about $25 on the new limited Aglaia, but I didn't realize you could download it.  Had I known that, I probably wouldn't have spent the $$.   

I guess it may not be a concern for those who are not CD addicts and are more economical about their music purchasing, but I'm more apt to buy music when I think I'm getting a good deal.  Does anyone else feel this way?

mgriffin:
I think most people agree CDs are preferable to CDRs when possible, and cheaper prices make a person more likely to buy the music.

We sell CDR releases on the Hypnos store in addition to our own items, and I always try to convince artists & labels who release CDRs that customers don't perceive a CDR release (especially in minimal packaging) to be worth as much as a pressed CD in a nicer package. To me it's obvious - a replicated disc in a digipak or full jewel case with booklet & tray card is "nicer" than a burned disc in a slimline case with a booklet only. I've had plenty of arguments with people who felt their flimsy self-made CDR was worth $15.99 retail, but it seems customers agree with me. When we've tried to sell CDRs for $14.99 or $15.99, it's almost impossible to sell them. At $9.99, they sell pretty well.

I understand people don't like the $19.99 double CDR deal with Relaxed Machinery releases but due to the nature of our arrangement, and that fact that you really are getting two separate single discs bundled together, that's really the only way we can do it. If we were set up to package a double-CDR in a single case (we're not) or if the artists were inclined to take 1 CD worth of royalties for their double-length recording (they're not), it might be different. Having said that, the recent 2CDR releases on Relaxed Machinery have sold roughly as well as 1CDR releases by the same artists.

APK:
Yep, this issue comes up once a year or so, like clockwork. I'll say my usual spiel again.

I think we'd all release replicated CDs if it were cost effective to do so. Replicated Cds are actually cheaper per unit than a good CDR release. You pay a company a load of money and they simply send you back 500  or 1000 finished releases. Works out to be little work and a very good deal per album ... if you actually manage to sell all of them. Especially as people will usually pay more for a pressed release over a CDR. But if you are only selling a 100 or so of a release and have the rest gathering dust then it is simply not so cost effective. You can struggle to break even. Which means neither the label nor the artist makes any money off the release.

A CDR (and I'm only speaking about a well-produced one) not only has higher costs for each part (disk paper printing case ink packaging) but if done in-house takes time, and quite a lot of time to produce and put together. Time that cannot be built in to the cost of the finished product without it simply costing too much. (At DataObscura, for example, every album is hand produced.) So expecting a CDR to be just a cheap imitation of a replicated album is really not seeing what is involved. It can be quite a bit more labor intensive, and more expensive to produce.

Of course, not all CDR releases are of the same quality. But neither are replicated releases. And lets not get into the quality of the actual music they put on these things  :o

APK:
Addendum.

Wanting albums to be cheaper is natural for a consumer, but wanting them to be cheap is another matter. It devalues them.

My view is that people should be seriously complaining about the rising cost of downloads, not the current fairly low cost of physical albums.

Downloads, for a label, are a "put up once then forget" entity. They are a serious automated money maker and should not be costing near-CD prices.

richardgurtler:
Hi guys,

yes, that's true, this topic keeps on returning, but I don't care when it can bring some new ideas or improvements based on these discussions, when fans, artists and label/mail-order owners are involved.

My point of view as of a big collector of physical CDs was already presented several times on this forum. And I will repeat again and again, when it comes to a physical product, it should be presented as "all-inclusive" package, to me I will always see each physical product as piece of art. At some point I can accept even a CDr release, but it definitely has to come with more attractive packaging. And the slim jewel case it's at very end of the attractiveness, at least to me. Yes, it probably saves your space on shelter, but I don't care about that if I can't locate it without the spine... I have maybe around 30-40 of these slim jewel case CDR editions in my collection, but there are still many good releases available on this format that I don't buy beacuse of this packaging. Just like "Drone on" said, they somehow slip to the bottom of my want list. I like the music, but I am simply unable to accept this packaging. I think it ruins the music or devaluate, as mentioned by Anthony. Maybe my words are hard, and yes, I understand, the CD sales are very low during these times, however I think this product has much lower chance to be picked up by some other, even small distros/mail-orders. There are many of them across the globe trying hard to spread the music they love and survive. No matter how difficult are the economics during these days, I would never go this way as a label or artist. Well, I am not in their shoes, if I would be, maybe my view might be different, but I hope not!!!

Speaking about CDR editions with slim jewel cases, there are still some other choices, for me much more attractive. For example slim poly case with a full wrap-around insert, printed on both sides, with a spine, as used by Anthony and his DataObscura label. Or the older type of slim jewel case with spine, used by Databloem's Practising Nature or Bluebox editions. Yes, I understand the later is not easy to buy and replace when it arrives broken during the shipping.

10,00 USD for CDR in slim jewel case or 15,00 USD for CD (CDR is acceptable too) in digipak, eco wallet, standard jewel case... My choice is definitely 15,00 USD. Yes, I understand, maybe there are many people who rather prefer cheaper product and don't pay any attention or pay less attention to packaging, 100 people, 100 tastes, however, this is my point of view. I think we are here quite strong community on Hypnos (or Relaxed Machinery), no matter if artists, labels, small distros, reviewers, radios, fans..., so why not to search for the best solutions that will evaluate physical products. I am quite sure there are some printing plants that are able to offer good or acceptable prices for smaller runs of 100, 200 or 300 copies with nice packagings. There are labels and artists going and using this way. So therefore they have some experiences that might be shared with other artists or labels searching for these choices, hopefully these helpful infos would be not "top secret"...

I agree with "Drone on", paying 10,00 USD for download instead of 10,00 to 13,00 USD plus shipping for CDR edition in slim jewel case, is much more reasonable. Bad luck for me, I don't buy any downloads, only physical products...:-( However, I think 10,00 USD per download is too much when comparing to physical product.

Please don't get me wrong, I didn't want to sound bad about these packagings, my big thanks and deep respect go to all those labels and artists releasing CDR editions with slim jewel cases, I know they work very hard, but the bottom line is that I am simply unable to identify with these products.

Keep on enjoying great music!!!

Richard

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