How much are you willing to pay for a CDR?

[| broken harbour |]

I have CDR's I bought over 10 years ago and not a single one has gone bad.  Besides, doesn't everyone backup their music electronically now?  Even my LP's have been ripped to my computer just in case...

Also, as another artist that self-releases and sells less than 100 CD's per release, CDR is my only reasonable option, even then, after paying an artist, the cost of manufacturing, proofs, etc.... I'm lucky to break even on a per-disc basis.

[mgriffin]

Incidently Mobineko will press 100 CDs from a glass master, in 4 panel Digipacks, you provide your own artwork for £450($700), They include the Digipaks free saving an additional £210($330) but for people who sell a lot less than 100 it is still not cost effective

Have you seen any examples of Mobineko's products? I've heard mixed reports as far as quality.

[phobos]

Incidently Mobineko will press 100 CDs from a glass master, in 4 panel Digipacks, you provide your own artwork for £450($700), They include the Digipaks free saving an additional £210($330) but for people who sell a lot less than 100 it is still not cost effective

Have you seen any examples of Mobineko's products? I've heard mixed reports as far as quality.

Hi Mike,
No unfortunately I haven't seen any CDs manufactured by them, yes there are mixed reports as for quality and it is a little worrying considering the high unit cost if you go for the 100 option = £4.50 per disc ($7 approx). So if they sold for £10 each you would need to sell 45 to break even, if you paid someone to do your artwork your probably going to have to sell them all, and that could be a long process, and if there are quality issues, then absolute nightmare. At least doing your own CDR if it goes bad then I can replace it, its in my control, and it is instant for the purchaser, which is very important, as they don't want to be messed about to-ing and fro-ing between artist and manufacturer, they just want to listen to the music they have bought, and hopefully be able to listen to it for many years.

[drone on]

Gterma label from Sweden (discussed on the forum) uses Mobineko. 

[Seren]

another question.

I am putting together (slowly) a 3 CDR disc ltd edition with fold out cover in good quality card and 6 or 7 cards with art and words about each track.

How much is a reasonable price? - I've been struggling with setting a price due to the exchange rates, general state of the economy and not wanting to undervalue my time and affort....

[drone on]

Seren, would this be previously unreleased music from years ago or recent new music?  In any event, I'd be interested.  Perhaps $25-$28 would be reasonable(?)  Basing this on other 3-CDR sets I've bought in the past: A Produce's "Black Sands" comes to mind most readily.   

[APK]

Seren. I think it depends quite a bit on the quality (and collectibility) of the final product. The case, the number of inserts, quality of printing, the cost of making the disks, the amount of time to put them together, whether its a limited edition. And lets not forget about whether the music is top notch. So, difficult to determine a price.

[richardgurtler]

Regarding Mobineko, as far I remember also Databloem used Mobineko for some titles, but it was during 2010. I don't know how many copies were pressed. Most recently also 36 "Lithea" CD was pressed by Mobineko, released in March 2012, packaged in a very nice matte-laminated 4-panel folded cardboard sleeve case with spine. The first run was limited to 200 copies, which are sold out now. According to the artist, additional repress of 100 copies is planned.

Richard

[Julio Di Benedetto]

Always enjoy this topic when it comes up because the issues simply do not go away.  From the label down to the independent artist the release of a cd results in the apparently unavoidable stock piling of packaged cds and in some cases cdrs.  I speak from within this genre, though I wonder if it doesnt extend through the entire music world.....the equation is wrong, not the maths which as been well presented here.

My personal experience which I have brought up here before regarding my first release and the pressing of 1000 double cds....you read this last sentence and you already know the story.  Every time I open the closet in the office and see the boxes of cds, I wonder to myself.....you really did not know what you were doing.  It has nothing to do with the music format, perhaps it says something about the quality of music.  There are many questions I could and do ask myself about this, but ultimate with ego aside it was a decision based on economics....300 pressed double cd package +mastering costs etc adds up to a financial disaster in the capitalistic sense.  So to be able to price this project within the reaches of potential listeners  the pressing of a 1000, actually 2000 discs as its a double cd was necessary albeit stupid as I look back now.

This leads me to consider for my new release what format should I go with.  Initially "in true form" the project was going to be a 3 disc release, mastering and artwork are already done......haunted by the ghost in my closet I have dismissed this idea, artwork can be reconfigured.  Perhaps then 3 separate  releases, part 1 part 2 and part 3.  Cds or cdrs, and or, or and......I have been going back and forth with this for 6 months or so.  Right now Im seriously considering a digital only release in Flac, Wav and possible a 24bit master edition.  No mp3 format....chopping off parts of the music to fit a convenient fast form of distribution doesnt fly for me and we have discussed this elsewhere in the forum so I wont go into it .

Thanks for listening....and to the topic question.  I think the Hypnos Secret Sound format @ $9.99 is a good model,  Itunes mp3 releases are $9.99 usually. Perhaps one could charge more for eco wallet or digipack cdr releases as the cost is more to manufacture.

[petekelly]

Perhaps slightly off-topic but interesting nonetheless, regarding future formats. He's a bit full-on, but he makes an interesting point:

CDs are DEAD, produce music in 24 bit not 16 bit

Julio, Regarding the CD release, It's hard I know but at least you went for it. Releasing a pressed CD is a dream for most artists and one which they can't / won't take the risk on financially. Going for it shows a commitment to the work, which I think is laudable.

[Julio Di Benedetto]

Thanks Pete.....it was a great adventure to go through the process of a self release and I dont mean to belittle the wonderful experience with my last post,  sounds that way.   Everyday I go back and forth trying to come to some sort commitment with this new project.  I will get there!   

[Seren]

Seren, would this be previously unreleased music from years ago or recent new music?  In any event, I'd be interested.  Perhaps $25-$28 would be reasonable(?)  Basing this on other 3-CDR sets I've bought in the past: A Produce's "Black Sands" comes to mind most readily.

Thanks for the responses everyone...

It is totally new music, almost completed.

I am looking at card similar to the Amplexus 3" series covers and there will be 6 inserts - 1 for each track and possibly another for explanation of the project. It has taken 4 years so far, though there have been stretches where life took over.

[eyes cast down]

Great discussion, and major for me, with the first two releases coming up. To cater to the small cadre of hardcore CD collectors, I'm leaning towards jewel case CDs with 2 panel front insert, and back-side-only CD tray insert. Disc Makers makes 300 CDs for about $870 (incl. barcode, shrink wrap, shipping & taxes) and 300 CDRs for about $650. At $15 and $10 respectively, I'd have to sell 58 and 65 copies respectively, to break even. That doesn't include the cost of mastering - or imaginary download sales.

It's tempting to go all-digital, because it's so much cheaper - and while we can give folks the full artwork in digital, I wonder how many of them would actually print it. But I think I'll stand at the barricade with the audiophiles - and pay for it...

[richardgurtler]

Hi Greg,

and welcome at Hypnos Forum!!! I am very glad to read about your upcoming projects and releases. You have my deep respect for taking or considering the more expensive route when releasing a CD. I will keep my fingers crossed for you and will support your project/releases as much I can!!! All the best !!!

Richard

[eyes cast down]

Thanks Richard! You're one of the audiophiles I have in mind. I think everyone appreciates your huge support for the music, as I do. 

[jdh]

Yes,this topic comes up often.
I will always look to a pressed CD over a CDR or even a download. I do consider FLAC or WAV downloads as I do not have any attachment to the artwork. I want the best sonics.
I had a bad run with CDRs years ago,lost all the music,and have never bought another one since.
It is too bad as I am sure I missed out on some amazing music but I have yet to get over being sold a lemon,even if it was not on purpose.
It plays a considerable role in my purchase. I jumped on the new Hypnos release,URBS,as it seems to be great music and it came on a pressed CD.For me,if he music is lovely,I will pay what it is worth,$8.99,12.99,14.99,18.99.But I expect for that to get an attractive package,with samples on an informative website,well shipped and if there is an issue,someone who will respond. Like Hypnos.
For me in fact,a piece of music that I will listen to a hundred times,that takes me away into another world or dream state,is in it's way priceless. At current prices,it is actually a real bargain.
But for the CD I buy that I listen to 4 times and goes on the shelf,that is worth nearly nothing.

[Mobineko]

Hi folks!

The difference between CD-Rs and glassmastered CDs is not always understood well so I would like to take some time and clear that up.

Although a CD-R and glassmastered CD can look similar and play the same there is a very important difference in how they work.

Data is stored on a CD-R in a special dye layer just underneath the CD label. That is important to know because it means that if the label is scratched or left in hot/bright conditions too long any data in that area is destroyed. Good quality CD-Rs have very tough UV-blocking varnish but still if they are left in the sun too long or get a deep scratch the data is gone for good.

On a glassmastered CD the data is actually stored in the plastic itself as a series of pits and bumps. The silver layer (actually aluminium) on top doesn't contain any data like a CD-R, it's just there to help reflect laser light back to the reader. You can scratch up either side of a glassmastered CD pretty bad and it will still work, also they are not affected by sunlight nearly as much as CD-Rs.

We all still buy a lot of physical music here and I personally get kind of annoyed if I paid 16 or 17 Eur for a CD that turns out to be a CD-R. I would rather have just paid a bit less for a high quality download. But at the other end I don't think it's necessary for the packaging that some bands make, it just feels like they are trying to one up each other sometimes. I am happy with a nicely made and nicely thought out CD or vinyl, I don't need a 10 panel gold embossed holographic singing double wide digipack. I worked on a project with some Finnish guy a few months back that really impressed me because it was just a basic jewel case but the artwork and music were amazingly well done. That is the kind of project that is a real pleasure to work on.

Having said that it is way easier for a DIYer to print on CDs with a home inkjet printer than to get artwork set up properly for offset printing or silkscreen. Designing for print involves a lot of difficult concepts such as colour profiles, ink coverage, density, optical properties of coatings or paper and so on. Also I guess CD-Rs are instant, even possible to print CDs after a show on the fly which is pretty cool. That is probably the one case where I would be happy to buy a CD-R for good money.

[jkn]

Very nice of Mobineko to join and post.  Thank you.