Author Topic: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)  (Read 7190 times)

judd stephens

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Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« on: June 12, 2012, 04:38:16 PM »
Of all the movies that have made an attempt to revive an old series or jumpstart a trilogy, Prometheus is the most deserving I've seen.  In fact Ridley now has 2 trilogies on the hook if I'm right in that he also said his Robin Hood was intended to be more than just one movie.  I would rather he in Peter Jackson fashion just focus on Prometheus.  I found Noomi Rapace to be excellent- I like her intrepid curiosity, not only after the surgery going with Weylan and David to the 'bridge' of the ship, but of course her semi-vengeful desire to seek out the humanoid aliens. 

That leads me to my first question:  David says there are other ships, and obviously there are as they leave in one.  So why are the aliens in hypersleep?  Were they in the other ship too? 

Drone On I thought to create this in case you'd also like to post your critique here


.  I wanted to leave my comments shorter and broken into several posts so as to not have huge paragraphs of my own analysis or questions...
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 04:41:00 PM by judd stephens »

judd stephens

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2012, 04:54:33 PM »
In reply to what Altus said: take the two who were left in the pyramid (what they called it) when the storm arrived. At first, they reacted in a realistic manner when they found the bodies stacked in the hallway. Then they entered the storage room containing the oozing vases, and the mutated worms came. Now one of the characters is completely fearless, practically begging to be killed like an idiot in a horror movie.

That's a funny observation and a good one.  My thought when I was watching it was why in the world did they return to that chamber?  I can buy that as a biologist which that character in fact was, might be a bit more intrepid and curious than your average person, wouldn't he at least think that thing could be venomous.  Yes, he was almost treating it like a pet kitten  ;D


Another example is when David has Shaw on the table, telling her she's pregnant, and then sedates her. She wakes to find two people prepping her for hypersleep. She fights them off (why didn't they give chase?) and uses the auto-surgery machine to remove the alien.
Then she returns to find David and some others, who seem completely okay that she escaped. In my opinion, this is a clear example of something that was left on the cutting room floor.


That David wouldn't show much emotion is understandable, both for his being an android and to hide his obvious maliciously intentioned programming.  I did like his quip "I didn't know you had it in you" then quick apology for the pun- it seemed like I was the only one in the theatre laughing at that.  As far as the two who tried to sedate her, I am pretty sure they were unaware of the alien inside.  There was little if any interaction between those specific characters beyond that scene if I remember right.  Also not remembering the way she escaped, she may have disoriented them enough to get away- again not sure if she could have just eluded them as they had no clue where she was headed.  My possible gripe:  wasn't the operation room part of Meredith Vickers' separate living quarters?  How was Shaw (Noomi's character) able to access that so readily? 

Agreed that the editing seemed as if more could have been there, easily.  Given a Ridley Scott film chances are that was it.  I could have happily watched a 3 hr. extended version.   As the more positive reviewers said, I found what actually did make it to be pretty engrossing and was left wanting more. 

judd stephens

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2012, 05:05:42 PM »
Julio said:  All in all I enjoyed it.  Have to say the one link to the original Alien 1 movie that was messed up is the Super Human chases  Shaw after his spacecraft crashes  near the end of the movie.  In the first Alien the Superhuman is found in the chair thing with its chest exploded out.  They were so close to putting the 2 movies together.  Must be to link up another movie yet to come other wise it just terrible continuity 

Well this is the grand question.  It's not LV 426, remember that was the name of the planet in Alien (and Aliens correct?).   Either case it's a different planet altogether from scene with the derelict craft we saw in the 1st movie.   The planet Prometheus lands on is LV 221 or something.   Also the alien that bursts from the humanoid looks different- the mouth is a little different and the teeth aren't razor sharp like the ones we know and love.  So they must go through further evolution/DNA mixing along the way...

Antdude

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2012, 10:13:22 PM »
It appears that some plot threads were shortened for the release. It's been confirmed that a 'Director's Cut' will be released on video in October. It's already available for pre-order on Amazon.

Here's a link to an interview with Ridley Scott: http://collider.com/ridley-scott-prometheus-deleted-scenes-interview/172202/
I was just in my office and I heard a ruckus.

Seren

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2012, 11:51:44 PM »
So the film is good enough for the director to release a cut at a later date, but not have that cut released as 'the film itself'? :o

Don't mean to gripe but it does bug me.

Thanks for starting the thread and it looks like this might be the film I know the best when I finally sit down and watch it - makes it an interesting process in itself

Altus

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2012, 04:20:08 AM »
Thanks for the link, Antdude. I have to say, I'm glad they cut out a "fight scene" between Shaw and the Engineer. I hope this 20 minutes of footage is sprinkled throughout the film to fill the needed gaps.
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mystified

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2012, 04:45:03 AM »
Just saw and really enjoyed the film. I understand the gripes about plot, but I was able to appreciate the film as being somewhat fanciful (albeit dark)-- it felt like a work of science fiction, full of amazing visuals and interesting and strange ideas. So, something where you really have to suspend your disbelief anyway.

Visually, just very impressive.

As a musician, I did wish the score had more variety. A small complaint.
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judd stephens

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2012, 09:41:20 AM »
Thanks for the link, Antdude. I have to say, I'm glad they cut out a "fight scene" between Shaw and the Engineer. I hope this 20 minutes of footage is sprinkled throughout the film to fill the needed gaps.

There are relatively few scenes with the Engineer.  On the one hand I like that it was tantalizingly few, which kind of keeps us on the hook in a good way and also leaves a lot up to mystery.  On the other hand, I wouldn't mind at least seeing that fight scene.  That was one thing I was thinking right afterward that some of the most intense scenes like that were so "bang bang" that after waiting till the end of the movie the payoff was relatively short (the ship crashing was pretty glorious and drawn out though)  I can't imagine that fight scene without some kind of equipment Shaw would need as an equalizer, a la Ripley in the lift machine vs. the Queen...

As some have mentioned the plot hole with Shaw and the lack of resolution between her and the crew members who were trying to sedate her ( I can accept it as something that got resolved in the story "off camera" but needed to be skipped due to relevancy of the more pressing theme)  what I'm wondering now is the squid like alien??  So how much time had elapsed from the surgery to the moment where it is let out full grown?

I guess one could buy that it was trapped in the medic room and everyone was preoccupied (including Vickers) but how did it get so gosh darned big, trapped in there?  This incidentally could have been a plot hole in the original Alien.  How did the Alien grow and what did it feed on?  You rarely if ever hear that gripe when the movie is mentioned.   Maybe because the characters in Alien are so well developed and the story is good enough that it hardly matters. 

What I'd like to see also in the extra minutes would be a little more character interaction.  This was a big movie and Ridley did try to fit a lot in,  one is led to believe that there is more of a plot development on Earth (given the previews), but some of the dialogue was fairly profound- ironic that a lot of the better scenes where big questions are asked come from the Android.  I liked the certain tension that existed between him and some of the crew members.  The line where the Shaw's boyfriend says something like "the latest versions are so similar to humans or something" and David replies with "I hope not too similar" was so ambiguously brilliant, and there were quite a few things David said to that effect. 

Shaw, David and Vickers were very good performances and I thought once we found out more about the bit characters I liked them too (the captain and the mohawked geologist most notably).  So any more footage could flesh them out or feature more dialogue perhaps.  I thought the plot twist with Weylan being alive was alright- the idea that he was just going to walk up to the Engineer and have a chat about fixing his pesky mortality thing was silly- then again an aging senile and once fearless tycoon could behave that way, sort of oblivious to reality and his own imminent doom.   At least a kind of movie with ambitions this grand has one talking and thinking afterward, even if it's to fill in the gaps. 

drone on

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2012, 01:03:29 PM »
Ridley had such a wonderful opportunity to make fabulous film--then after 20 min. into the movie he took a dump all over it.   8)

drone on

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2012, 10:32:15 AM »
Notice how this topic hasn't gotten a new post in one month?  I think it shows how "forgettable" this movie actually was.  I was so unmotivated that I never even wrote my official review!  I will probably rent the DVD when it comes out so I can give it another try, but for now "Prometheus" is just a distant memory, like a star light years away.  ;D

Bill Binkelman

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2012, 11:33:40 AM »
I hate to say "I told you so!" but here's my post from back in March when many folks everywhere on the 'net were hyperventilating about the film, especially at aintitcool.com:

"I have seen too many trailers that looked equally awesome and the final film didn't deliver. Admittedly, this looks fantastic, but I will wait for opening night...I have had too many expectations dashed on the rocks of reality. A lot of films can be assembled into an amazing trailer and the resulting film is only "okay" so we will see. Also, I hope Scott knows what he is doing screwing around with the Alien mythos. Lucas did that with the prequel and we got "midocholorians."

And no, I still haven't seen it, because aside from the visuals, it sounds awful. When the film finally comes to the second run Riverview near my house (the best place to see a film in the Twin Cities, IMO), I will break down go see it just so I can say I saw it.
May the odds be ever in your favor.

judd stephens

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2012, 03:36:09 PM »
The only reason I stopped was because people seemed to be interested in just posting their initial reaction to the movie, but not really in engaging in any kin of real musings.  I posed a few questions for thought and responses to others' reactions, but nothing happened.  Maybe you're right droneon, it's because people wanted to dismiss it rather than give it a second thought. 

I haven't totally forgotten about the movie though- just the other day I saw this: 
PROMETHEUS WALKTHROUGH


It's the best defense I've seen yet, and I think it does it some justice.  Still looking forward to seeing it again and any director's cut.  PS you do know Ridley's got a Blade Runner sequel on his radar too right?   ::) ;) 

I kid you not.

drone on

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2012, 05:30:50 PM »
Bladerunner 2 sounds like a bad idea at this point.  I think RS is having a kind of old age crisis where he revisits past glories because he doesn't have much time.

judd stephens

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2012, 07:59:46 PM »
He must be getting nostalgic on the one hand, but I credit him for trying to go in a unique direction with this, and I have nothing against the idea.  A lot of us have dreamed about this but it's been so long in the making.  To quote Noomi's character... "We were SO WRONG."   :P


 I'd like to see Christopher Nolan's take on Prometheus or Blade Runner 2, the type of director that put enough emphasis back on the characters and their motivations and conflicts.  What I would like to see is more of a different kind of alternate reboot, like a movie version of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. 

9dragons

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2012, 09:07:17 PM »
Thanks for posting that vid above Judd, it got me sparked up to think about Prometheus again. Actually, it feels like I haven't stopped thinking about it since first seeing it a week after it came out. The first sequence on the waterfall had me staring in wonder, and I turned to my friend sitting there and we just nodded in approval. Then comes that wonderful shot of the ship, like a tiny comet, engulfed in space, and all the wonderful scenes with David in the beginning, that seemed classic cinema to me. As the movie began to fall apart (as I thought at the moment) with all the incongruous idiocy wrecking the mood, I seriously started to fidget in my seat and had a sour urge to walk the hell out of the theater. Even some of the excellent money shots towards the end did not mitigate the jarring stupidity of the rest of the film. As the credits rolled, I walked out with my friend shaking my head...

Then went back to see it a week later. Then again, a few days after that. Then a fourth time. I've remarkably ended up absolutely fascinated by this movie, partly because I just revel in Ridley Scott's graphic sense, and the way he's able to communicate with film. Partly due to the exquisite design of the film, the sets, and beasts, and the seeming restraint in the use of CG. Scott has a way of restraining himself so that when the insane and unreal moments come, they feel real. The scene with the Engineer battling the giant squid baby was an absolute delight. And so much more.

So I've gone back and watched Alien and Blade Runner (studied them more accurately), and realized that a lot of the criticisms that could be applied to Prometheus can also be leveled at these earlier films, regardless of how "classic" they are now. The thing is, is that the mastery of the vision overrides the missteps, just as it does in Prometheus.

For me, Prometheus is one of the best big time theater movies to come out in quite a while. Avatar is not good for me anymore, and though stunning on a first watch, was awful upon a second. Prometheus, I hated on the first viewing and then, once I cleared my head of my initial reactions, was able to watch it again and again with great entertainment and to get a lot of mileage out of it. This film seems to have generated more imaginative discussion than any I can remember. I'm enjoying that aspect very much.

Excited to dive into the DVD when it comes out.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 09:11:57 PM by 9dragons »

drone on

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2012, 12:12:09 PM »
I'll be interested to see what my reaction to the DVD is, but honestly since I saw the movie opening day I haven't thought about it one bit, until perusing this thread again today. 

Bill Binkelman

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2012, 06:39:25 PM »
I finally saw it about a month ago at a second run theater and I hated it. Hated the characters, whom I found all annoying to the max - yes, even the android. The SFX which I thought would be good were mediocre at best. The plot holes were so huge that it made the Transformers series look realistic (honestly, how does a tiny alien which somehow survives being cut out of its host grow to be so big in a food-less environment???   and getting up from a table and running around after abdominal surgery????), and the story itself was so pointlessly pretentious as to be laughable. Where are Joel, Crow, Tom Servo and Gypsy when you need them? Easily the biggest disappointment I have had since Star Wars I, II, and III. The music sucked, too. I truly HATED this film and there are few movies I really and truly HATE, but this is one of them.
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drone on

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2012, 12:25:00 PM »
Ha ha!  Yeah, the gumby creatures were stupid and the characters you just didn't care for at all.  Plot full of holes. Yep!  The only reason I can't say I "hated" it was because I thought the first 15 min. or so were excellent. 

Antdude

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2012, 01:51:32 PM »
I thought this review made a good(and pretty funny) bookend to the discussion on our collective disappointment:

http://minx.cc/?post=334956

Enjoy.
I was just in my office and I heard a ruckus.

drone on

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Re: Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2012, 04:08:35 PM »
Some good points, although I don't agree the events in Prometheus were "hundreds of years" earlier.  That is plain wrong.  What I thought was weird was the interior controls on the Prometheus looked way more advanced than the Nostromo.