Author Topic: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?  (Read 4284 times)

drone on

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Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« on: November 08, 2012, 01:49:56 PM »
Just got an email about a new Ishq release.  Considering I just spent $20 on a new Ishq disc which came out last week (on his own label, Virtual), in addition to a boatload of other music, my wallet hasn't had time to recover.  This release is called "Lyght" and is a 100-copies CDR, which does not get released until 12-21-2012. 

I have two issues with this one: why only 100? you know it's gonna sell out in about 3 days...

Plus, why would I pay for something nearly 2 MONTHS in advance??

Verdict: I HATE 'em (limited edition pre-orders)

drone on

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2012, 07:21:24 PM »
Update:  ishq CDR now sold out (less than 8 hrs after I received the email).  DUMB.  I think labels should give buyers who want an item more than one day to make a purchase.  And you know somebody probably bought 5 copies so they can sell them on discogs for $100 plus a piece...

APK

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2012, 09:11:05 PM »
And what's to stop a label, for example, keeping a bunch aside to sell at $100 a piece later. It is a bit odd only offering 100 knowing they will sell out.
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drone on

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2012, 10:48:13 PM »
Yes, you're right APK.  I hope I didn't offend any artists on the forum here who release limited editions.  To clarify, I think extreme ltd editions by artists with fairly large followings is what annoys me.  Ishq is pretty big artist in electronic music.  He sells a lot of cds, relatively.  What if Steve Roach had limited Dream Circle to 100 copies?  I think some disappointed people would have been complaining.  What's weird is even releasing an ishq CDR.  He could've put this out on cd on Virtual at say 300 copies.  Would've made more sense.

| broken harbour |

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2012, 08:47:50 AM »
That's actually what I love about Steve Roach, he keeps nearly all his albums in print, so if I discover a gem by him 25 years after it's released, I'm not limited to itunes.

richardgurtler

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2012, 09:54:37 AM »
Definitely agree with all of you, guys. Ordering a CD is for me a very enjoyable process, but if some label/artist decide to release ultra limited run even if the demand is much bigger, then this process immediately becomes stressful, because you have to be "at the right place at the right time", otherwise you miss the item or you will pay later much higher price at Discogs to someone who is trying to make some money from these strange label politics. Even if you are a true fan and collector, you might miss the item and instead of you, some speculative purchaser buys the item/items. Have no idea what's behind these "strategies" of some labels/artists even if I am hardly trying to imagine being in their shoes... Of course I understand if some artful handmade edition is made, but have no excuse for ordinary packaged CDr edition of 50 or 100 copies, even if much bigger run can be easily sold. Why to make or release music, when it's limited to smaller amount of people only? Exploring new music should be relaxing and comfortable, and not stressful and upsetting, so I simply avoid dealing with these labels/artists.

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ffcal

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2012, 10:26:08 AM »
I prefer Infraction's model, where they have a regular CD release and a limited bonus CDR of additional material for the early adopters. 

Paid a bit more than I would have liked for some of Mirror's limited run CDRs on the second hand amrket, and I'm not sure it was worth it.

Forrest

drone on

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2012, 11:03:29 AM »
As much as I like Infraction, they also kind of have the "you snooze you lose" thing with those "first 50 copies come with limited bonus etc.etc." because very often I missed out on those because I didn't order a release within the first 3 or 4 days (often due to not even knowing about a release). 

| broken harbour |

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2012, 11:31:27 AM »
I think it depends on the artist, I'm lucky to sell even 100 copies of anything,  Self financing a CDR release is a not-insignificant investment on the artists part, on top of that, I've noticed that more and more people are buying downloads of my records vs the CDR version.  That's partly why I'm limiting 'The Geometry of Shadows' to 100 copies this time around.  I'll likely not repress my 1st record once that sells out too. (I've already repressed it once.)

But I admit, when Steven Wilson limits a Bass Communion release or something to less than 1000 and it sells out in less than 24 hours it does tick me off a little bit. I can see it from both the Artist and Fan points of view.

phobos

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2012, 12:37:34 PM »
When you are a small artist you have to limit your own self released items and sometimes the limit you set is way more than you are going to sell. My latest is limited to 50 copies, as the minimum amount of digipaks the company would make is 50, I know I won't sell anywhere near that amount, but I wanted the release to be issued in a digipak and that was the only way to go.
However, I do agree with the comments about the artists who have a large following limiting releases to very small numbers, it is a bit silly ::)
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ffcal

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2012, 01:03:06 PM »
If I'm reading that site for the limited Ishq CDR correctly, it looks like the release will still be available in digital format.  So it punishes those of us who prefer a physical object, but at least the release will continue to be available in some form.

The consequences of overestimating demand for a physical CD can be an overstuffed closet or garage, so there's definitely a risk in pressing too many beyond the financial.

Forrest

drone on

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2012, 05:28:21 PM »
Oh yeah, you'll still be able to get the music via digital download. 

You know what I'd love to see?  Somebody release a limited edition of ONE COPY, which the artist buries in the ground and no one ever hears it, and never makes it available for download or in any form.  And whoever finds it and digs it up gets to hear it!!!  ;D 8) ;D ;) ::)

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2012, 12:03:43 PM »
Remember the Merzbow limited edition of one CD, which came "packaged" in the CD player of a Mercedes-Benz car, which was included?
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Julio Di Benedetto

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2012, 05:33:19 PM »
Firstly, why release on a B quality format.....I know the minimum for pressed CD's is 300.  Not disrespecting CDr's and those that release their music on them, just saying so within the context of this artist who will clearly sell more than a 100, and apparently has.

Perhaps the music is more of a side note or older forgotten material because such a small pressing could suggest the artist lack of faith in the music......have not heard it mind you. 

Or this is a limited hard copy for those interested as the main release will be digital.

betawave31

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2012, 04:57:57 AM »
Just got an email about a new Ishq release.  Considering I just spent $20 on a new Ishq disc which came out last week (on his own label, Virtual), in addition to a boatload of other music, my wallet hasn't had time to recover.  This release is called "Lyght" and is a 100-copies CDR, which does not get released until 12-21-2012. 

I have two issues with this one: why only 100? you know it's gonna sell out in about 3 days...

Plus, why would I pay for something nearly 2 MONTHS in advance??

Verdict: I HATE 'em (limited edition pre-orders)

Sorry I know I don't post much on this forum but this argument that a label cannot press a limited edition is a lot of hot air.

Firstly the "scene" as it may is very small to say the least. There are a few who will always support you and others who talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

When artists notice that their physical cd/cdr sales have plummeted in the last ten years because of a: theft thru illegal downloads or b: people just dont have the money to spend reality dictates for them(artist) to hunker down and press less product based on demand. Its that simple not rocket science.

What is wrong with a piece of music becoming a collectors item anyway? Why all the fuss?

Does it really bother you that a cd sells for $100 on Ebay because you didnt purchase it when it was released because you waited months only to find out its been sold out?

Money and sales are marginal in today's economy(that's a given) and basically it comes down to the "artist" or "label" to make the choice of limited pressings. If you know it will become a collectors piece then buy it when its released and please stop the moaning its old, tired and pointless.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 05:53:40 AM by betawave31 »

APK

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2012, 10:51:10 AM »
Yep, you are right betawave, it is ultimately the label or artist's choice. For sure.

But you know, change comes about by people voicing their opinions and, if reasons
are given, it a bit harsh to say it is all "old, tired and pointless".
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drone on

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2012, 11:28:05 AM »
I was not going to respond to this inflammatory post ("hot air, moaning, tired pointless" etc.) but I feel I should defend my position on it.  I am not going to insult the poster as they have insulted me, so I'll just stick to the facts...

I never "argued" that "a label cannot press a limited edition."  My point was pressing extreme limited editions by popular artists where the demand will be much greater than what is actually available.  The fact is the referenced limited edition sold out in a matter of HOURS--less than a DAY.  Yes, I am a collector and I would have purchased this album, but since I was not even given one day to do so, that was a bit impossible.  I never said anything about waiting two months to buy something and then being upset because it goes for $100 on eBay.  Believe me I know all the ins and outs on this issue.  Been collecting EM for 20 years.  I buy lots of limited editions.  I support the artists big time.  I'm on their side.  But the "you snooze you lose" situation that sometimes arises, again with the extreme ltd. editions by popular artists, can be annoying and unfair for those like myself who value and support the music, especially the physical product.       

mgriffin

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2012, 11:42:35 AM »
I have to say, Drone On's original post wasn't about all limited editions, but these editions that are so small that they're out of print on day one. I agree with him on this. If your customer base is sufficiently rabid that 100 copies sell out in a matter of hours, why not make an edition or 200 or even 300?

Also, if you're the kind of artist who can quickly sell 200-300 discs, why not do pressed CDs instead of CDRs?

Nobody is arguing that releasing shorter runs of discs is unacceptable in today's market. I think pretty much everyone reading this forum understands the economic pressures on independent artists and labels, especially in a niche genre. But as the number of people buying CDs dwindles (and that number is way down, no question about it), that doesn't mean artists & labels should go too far in the opposite direction, and shift over to a mode of creating unnecessary scarcity. If you know 200-300 (or even 500) people want your disc, pressing only 100 so they sell out in a few hours is just bizarre. At least give everyone a month or two to grab a copy!
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drone on

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2012, 07:55:39 PM »
P.S. Greg/Alpha Wave Movement:  I bought your Eolian Reflections ltd 50 copies disc and I have most of your catalog.   8)

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Re: Limited Edition pre-orders: love 'em or hate 'em?
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2012, 11:34:21 PM »
I thought I would come back to the forum (I forgot I had an account) and respond to this thread, because it applies to me in a lot of ways too, as a customer and artist.

As a customer, I would prefer not to pre-order something. Though I realize it is unavoidable a lot of the time, because people need the money to produce it, and I do it sometimes.

However, I think pre-orders should not be done strictly because it is a limited edition. It makes it seem exclusive (which it is), typically depending on your speed to order or available money as the answer to whether you get a copy or not. If you can make it a bigger edition, you should. These days it isn't so expensive to get 300 CDs pressed.

As a artist, sometimes pre-orders are necessary, unfortunately. When publishing myself, I try to only do it when there is no other way possible, for editions that are expensive to produce that few people buy (like vinyl).

Working with labels, however, the artist usually has no say in this matter whatsoever, which is part of the problem, because when customers are upset about limited editions being quickly sold out, the quality of the packaging, or the slow production time, usually it is not the artists' fault, yet they receive some of the blame as well. As an artist you just have to do your best and hope that it comes out well.

Another thing is about the 'why release on CDRs' question. Of course none of us want to release on CDR. It is the cheapest format (even more than tape, because there's no nostalgia associated), and the quickest to die or decay. These are the only reasons I ever release on CDR:

1) If you produce a lot of music, the options, if you can't release on vinyl or CD, are to #1 release it digitally #2 release on a CDR, or #3 not release it and hope an opportunity comes up eventually. Of the 3, obviously actually having a physical edition (even though pitiful and cheap) is still (sometimes) better than just digital, and better than nothing at all. Also you have the problem with #3 that no chance of a release will ever come up, or that so much time passes that you're more interested in your current music, and just forget it altogether.

Some people may say that with that result, it is probably better to not publish it at all. That may be fine for some people, but personally I think that all music has an important time and place. It's not always going to be perfect or your best album, but it represents something special that you do believe in, so it's important even if many people think you're already doing too much. You just have to follow what you think is right.

So in all, even though CDRs are barely worth publishing, sometimes it's doing the best (as in only) thing you can do.

I always try to print the maximum number, but I have tiny editions happen all the time too. You can't win all the time.

In response to some other people:

@Julio Di Benedetto @mgriffin Also, if you're the kind of artist who can quickly sell 200-300 discs, why not do pressed CDs instead of CDRs?

If the label won't press a CD and will only do a CDR, the artist doesn't have much choice. It's the labels' decision. My way or the highway sortof approach. It's tough enough just finding labels to release something period.

@drone on You know what I'd love to see?  Somebody release a limited edition of ONE COPY

http://onement-label.com/ONE-HOME.html

@| broken harbour | That's actually what I love about Steve Roach, he keeps nearly all his albums in print

Reissuing albums is one of the most difficult things to get labels to do, maybe not for Steve Roach, but for most everybody else lower than that