Author Topic: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live  (Read 834 times)

mgriffin

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Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« on: November 19, 2013, 11:21:56 AM »
Most of my software, I don't upgrade every time a new version is offered. Usually I'll buy maybe every 2nd or 3rd upgrade, either because the new version offers something special, or because the old version seems not to work so well any more.

I think it's about time for me to upgrade to Ableton Live 9. In the past, I've always bought the "Standard" version of Live, not the "Suite" version with all the extra instruments and samples, but this time I'm thinking of upgrading all the way to Live 9 Suite. The inclusion of Max for Live is interesting to me. I feel like it's something I might use for crafting my own effects and pseudo-instruments.

Anybody out there using a recent enough version of Ableton Live to have an opinion on this? Anyone using Max for Live?

For a few years, I've had an Akai APC20 controller that I almost sold, because it was ridiculously hard to set up with earlier versions of Live. I just tried it with the demo version of 9, and the software recognized it and self-configured the interface, no problem at all. That alone is reason enough for me to want to upgrade. I love the idea of having external hardware with buttons, knobs and sliders to control Live, rather than trying to do everything with a mouse.

This is the thing I'm talking about:



Anyway, at the very least I'll upgrade to Live Standard, and I'm kind of leaning toward getting Studio. Just hoping someone will have some experience with this and let me know whether they think it's worth it.
[ Mike Griffin, Hypnos Recordings ] email mg (at) hypnos.com | http://hypnos.com | http://twitter.com/mgsoundvisions

Ekstasis

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Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2013, 11:37:22 AM »
I have not been using ableton live since 2009, I did move over to reaper.. which is use the cpu better and gives better sound quality.
the latest Sonar X3 seem to be very inspired form Ableton it have the session view...which is the only thing why people use ableton.
This is something I kind of miss in Reaper. But with a maxed cpu I must prioritize performance.

well you are right, making ambient with the mouse is not real ambient from heart, atleast it does not feel that way for me, I have no interest to morph in afterwards besides mixing but I want to morph the audio in real time. Otherwise it feels pointless for me.

If you do not use the session view, I would recommend trying Reaper.

El culto

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Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2013, 12:05:32 PM »
Quote from: Immersion link
.. which is use the cpu better and gives better sound quality.

I would really like to know what are the reasons you claim that Reaper has better sound quality? Any proofs for that?

Quote from: Immersion
"the latest Sonar X3 seem to be very inspired form Ableton it have the session view...which is the only thing why people use ableton.

It seems you have a strong and especially personal (!) idea about why people are using Live! I´m sorry to say, but your judgement does´t work for me at last  ;D

Cheers,
Tomas

Ekstasis

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Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2013, 12:22:58 PM »
well it is quite widely known, atleast before but I guess I should take it back cause in all honesty I have not been keeping up with the last versions.
I used ableton live in 2009 I am not sure what version was out then, 7 ?
people in different forums did complan about the sound quality...it might be better now though..

Ok but  a lot of people use it only for session view I can promise you that..
Cause it was one of things that no other DAW had really...
now it looks like the X3 have something similar though. I am sorry If I am negative I am just not
a big fan of ableton anymore.  Why are you using ableton ? 

El culto

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Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2013, 12:35:40 PM »
Mike, i have updated to 9 from Version 6 and i´m happy i did!

I haven´t spend time with Max but it looks promising….but for all the other changes they made it´s a HUGE improvement! I love the new browser, as it is much more clearer and easy to navigate through. Also the cpu usage hasn´t changed on all on my computer - and that´s a big plus when having 3 versions between!

I played a bit with the audio to midi option and it works really well! Tried as a test some schumann piano pieces to see how good the algorithm works - the results were more than acceptable! Just some duration mistakes but otherwise almost 1:1 and that is really amazing! Couldn´t done better by Melodyne!!!

Ordered also the Push controller…and that is really a killer!!! The integration is almost perfect and VERY easy to navigate through racks and patches…the only criticism i have is that right now the integration works only for Ableton plugs smoothly…for 3rd party vst/vsti you have to build a rack first….but i´m pretty sure this will be fixed with a next update! Forget about any other 3rd party controller - Push blow all away (and the best, it´s manufactured by AKAI).

Will update here, after going more into all the adds!

Greetings,
Tomas

El culto

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Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2013, 12:51:57 PM »
Quote from: Immersion
people in different forums did complan about the sound quality...

Do you have any references/links?

My complain is, that you speak much too general and just judging by what people in forums (!) saying. Don´t want to sound negative, but imo this isn´t really a good source!

Quote from: Immersion
Ok but  a lot of people use it only for session view I can promise you that..

I can promise, that a lot of people use A or B for C and D….this kind of statement works for anything when you are not concrete about something...you get the point?

Quote from: Immersion
Why are you using ableton ?

:: extremely stable (especially for live conditions)
:: really cpu friendly
:: easy to use for quick ideas
:: perfect looping options
:: warp markers
:: configurable for several screens
:: audio to midi (new)
:: rack options
:: tweaking in session while recorded in view with edit options afterwards
:: library (suite)
:: etc

Ekstasis

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Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2013, 01:12:42 PM »
well, I understand people take it personal when expressing a disklike for a DAW, but it is like that, every one use different DAW and all think they are the best.. I tend to like reaper most,  the one reason I did want to try it first was the fact that was "free" I could not imagine any "serious" DAW would be free..but I was wrong.. I think a lot of people do not take it serious just because it is a free program to use.

My references regarding audio quality in ableton, I am sorry but I will not dig up many year old threads on forums.
But when I did use it it was a quite general complain that the audio quality was not the best.

in the version nine they say on their website that the rendering audio quality has been " dramatically improved" so I guess it was not good before.

it is good that is extremly stable...that is why I like reaper... I used sonar before it was NOT stable.
crashed often...

Cpu friendly...well that is relative... have you tried same project using reaper and ableton and compared ?

Well I have to admit there is some things I like in ableton.. it is easy to assign modulation on objects and plugins in general..
The X:Y pad stuff etc..the audio editor is quite flexible..
But in all honesty I can create music without these stuff in reaper... I control all I want with midi devices.
But I can admit the some of the stuff in GUI is very flexible in ableton.
But anyway I still feel more at home in reaper, it is easy and clean and fast and stable.

I want to try X3 just for fun I want to try to all the saturation stuff in the mixer..



El culto

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Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2013, 05:48:15 PM »
well, I understand people take it personal when expressing a disklike for a DAW, but it is like that, every one use different DAW and all think they are the best..

You will be surprised, but Live is not my main DAW  ;D Sorry to disappoint, but actually it´s Cubase!

Quote from: Immersion
My references regarding audio quality in ableton, I am sorry but I will not dig up many year old threads on forums.

A shame, as this would make your clearly expressed conclusion more valuable!

Quote from: Immersion
in the version nine they say on their website that the rendering audio quality has been " dramatically improved" so I guess it was not good before.

I guess the earth is a pane  ;D

mgriffin

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Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2013, 06:07:20 PM »
I don't really use Live as a DAW, but as tool for live improvisation with mixing and effecting loops. I've used it in live performance (and for that matter, when I saw Lustmord perform live in Providence this summer, he was using Live on a Macbook Pro with some kind of tiny controller) and to record "live" in the studio as well.
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Julio Di Benedetto

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Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2013, 05:57:03 AM »
every time I read posts about Live I download the trial to see what its about and how it may change the way I work for the better and each time I come to the same conclusion.....it doesnt work for me.  I understand it and how it is different from logic or cubase and the session view is an interesting place to create ideas etc.  I think its my old school mentality that treats the daw as a mixing desk and tape machine and Live can be this but was not designed to flow the same linear way as traditional daws.  Also 95% of my music is created from synths, mostly hardware recorded directly into logic and the random element the session view offers to explore sonic ideas seems to confuse.   That being said Ive just downloaded the latest trail so can have another look. ;D

petekelly

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Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2013, 07:13:03 AM »
I've got a very cut down version ('Lite' the one that Soundcloud gave away) of version 8.1. I think it's very interesting, but for me, I wouldn't use it for composition.
By the way, I don't believe in any of that 'audio engine' stuff, smacks to me of Hi-Fi talk - 'golden electrons' and all that. I'm a firm believer in challenging accepted wisdom :)

mgriffin

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Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2013, 12:48:38 PM »
Mike, i have updated to 9 from Version 6 and i´m happy i did!

I haven´t spend time with Max but it looks promising….but for all the other changes they made it´s a HUGE improvement! I love the new browser, as it is much more clearer and easy to navigate through. Also the cpu usage hasn´t changed on all on my computer - and that´s a big plus when having 3 versions between!

I played a bit with the audio to midi option and it works really well! Tried as a test some schumann piano pieces to see how good the algorithm works - the results were more than acceptable! Just some duration mistakes but otherwise almost 1:1 and that is really amazing! Couldn´t done better by Melodyne!!!

Ordered also the Push controller…and that is really a killer!!! The integration is almost perfect and VERY easy to navigate through racks and patches…the only criticism i have is that right now the integration works only for Ableton plugs smoothly…for 3rd party vst/vsti you have to build a rack first….but i´m pretty sure this will be fixed with a next update! Forget about any other 3rd party controller - Push blow all away (and the best, it´s manufactured by AKAI).

Will update here, after going more into all the adds!

Greetings,
Tomas


Tomas

Thanks for your thoughts about the Live 9 upgrade. I already have the Akai APC20, so I'll just continue to work with that, rather than get rid of it and purchase a Push.

I'm leaning toward getting the Studio version of 9 rather than the Standard version. Max for Live is interesting to me as something to explore creating my own devices, and I also think some of the pre-built Max for Live devices might be useful.
[ Mike Griffin, Hypnos Recordings ] email mg (at) hypnos.com | http://hypnos.com | http://twitter.com/mgsoundvisions

El culto

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Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2013, 01:10:54 PM »
Mike, i have updated to 9 from Version 6 and i´m happy i did!

I haven´t spend time with Max but it looks promising….but for all the other changes they made it´s a HUGE improvement! I love the new browser, as it is much more clearer and easy to navigate through. Also the cpu usage hasn´t changed on all on my computer - and that´s a big plus when having 3 versions between!

I played a bit with the audio to midi option and it works really well! Tried as a test some schumann piano pieces to see how good the algorithm works - the results were more than acceptable! Just some duration mistakes but otherwise almost 1:1 and that is really amazing! Couldn´t done better by Melodyne!!!

Ordered also the Push controller…and that is really a killer!!! The integration is almost perfect and VERY easy to navigate through racks and patches…the only criticism i have is that right now the integration works only for Ableton plugs smoothly…for 3rd party vst/vsti you have to build a rack first….but i´m pretty sure this will be fixed with a next update! Forget about any other 3rd party controller - Push blow all away (and the best, it´s manufactured by AKAI).

Will update here, after going more into all the adds!

Greetings,
Tomas


Tomas

Thanks for your thoughts about the Live 9 upgrade. I already have the Akai APC20, so I'll just continue to work with that, rather than get rid of it and purchase a Push.

I'm leaning toward getting the Studio version of 9 rather than the Standard version. Max for Live is interesting to me as something to explore creating my own devices, and I also think some of the pre-built Max for Live devices might be useful.

Yeah, APC20 isn´t bad at all too…but with any of those controllers it´s always the same issue - you have to adjust a lot of parameters…that´s why i mentioned the great integration of Push. If you have a bit spare money i think it´s worth to think about the suite version…really, it comes with a lot of great additional instruments and a huge library. Still haven´t used Max so far…but is it included in the studio/standard version? I don´t think so but maybe you meant the Suite anyway...

Cheers,
Tomas

mgriffin

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Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2013, 02:52:18 PM »
Yes, I meant "Suite" version when I said "Studio" version.

If you already own the Suite version, how much does Ableton charge for the version upgrade to the latest Studio version? As I said, I'm inclined to upgrade from Standard to Suite, but I wonder if that will mean my future version upgrades are much more expensive than they are for the Standard version.
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El culto

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Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2013, 03:22:59 PM »
Yes, I meant "Suite" version when I said "Studio" version.

If you already own the Suite version, how much does Ableton charge for the version upgrade to the latest Studio version? As I said, I'm inclined to upgrade from Standard to Suite, but I wonder if that will mean my future version upgrades are much more expensive than they are for the Standard version.

I payed 170 Euro for the Upgrade as different versions like Standard/Suite didn´t exist in the version i upgraded from…there was only 1 version available at this time but i had the option to go either for the equal version (= 100 Euro - standard)  or the suite (= 170 Euro - suite) but Suite have much more features/content of course so it was clearly more expansive. As done in the past they just go for a relative upgrade price like other companies do. Of course, if you want at one point to crossgrade from standard to suite (like i did) this will be more expansive, but thats with any other DAW the same.

Cheers,
Tomas

mgriffin

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Re: Ableton Live 9 and Max for Live
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2013, 03:25:38 PM »
I went ahead and purchased the Suite upgrade. I had already downloaded the Live 9 demo version, so I just have to type in my serial numbers, and download any additional components, instruments or samples I want to add.

I guess I need to make a new album this year to justify this purchase!
[ Mike Griffin, Hypnos Recordings ] email mg (at) hypnos.com | http://hypnos.com | http://twitter.com/mgsoundvisions