Author Topic: Binaural Recordings?  (Read 1463 times)

LNerell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
    • Personal website
Binaural Recordings?
« on: December 27, 2013, 05:02:39 PM »
I am looking for some feedback on this issue so, this is a question to everyone out there. I just finished mixing my next album with Mark Seelig which is going to be called Tree of Life. A friend came over the other day and we got to talking about surround sound music (my friend's specialty). He told me he started mixing his stuff down to binaural stereo mixes for headphone listening, so people could enjoy his surround sound music on their ipods or mp3 players. We discovered that I actually already have in my music software the ability to make such recordings without having to do a surround sound mix. So my question is would anyone be interested in this? It would be a separate mix that you could download, but would not be available on the CD, and it would require headphone listening since binaural audio doesn't translate as well to speakers. Please let me know if this does or doesn't appeal to you. Thanks in advance.
Take care.

- Loren Nerell

Castleview

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
    • View Profile
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2013, 05:54:33 PM »
That sounds pretty cool. I believe that Kevin Braheny and Michael Stearns have done that before to some extent or another. 
http://castleview.bandcamp.com/
New album available now!

chris23

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
    • View Profile
    • bandcamp profile
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2013, 06:36:13 PM »
Sounds like fun.

| broken harbour |

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
    • View Profile
    • official website
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2013, 07:43:41 PM »
Try it, bundle it as a free download bonus or something.

LNerell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
    • Personal website
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2013, 09:14:13 PM »
That's why I am asking, to see if its worth the while to even do this. If only one or two people are interested then I probably won't bother. Just to be clear what I am asking about is would anyone be interested in a special headphones required mix, a binaural version of the album that will sound more 3D then a regular stereo mix? I'm trying to see if their is enough interest to make the effort to go back and do this. Of course if I do this both versions of the album will be available, the binaural version would only be a download while the CD would be the normal stereo mix. It might be possible that if you bought the CD that you would receive a code to download the binaural mix.
Take care.

- Loren Nerell

Castleview

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
    • View Profile
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2013, 09:32:35 PM »
How long would it take you to do these binaural mixes?
http://castleview.bandcamp.com/
New album available now!

LNerell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
    • Personal website
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2013, 10:02:51 PM »
How long would it take you to do these binaural mixes?

Good question, the answer is I don't know. I've never done this before so my guess would be at least a couple of days. The mix would most likely be the same or very similar, most of the time would be spent learning the binaural software and messing around with it to get interesting results.
Take care.

- Loren Nerell

Scott M2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 636
    • View Profile
    • dreamSTATE
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2013, 11:36:36 PM »
I'd be interested in this. I'd be evern more interested in an actual surround mix on DVD/BluRay/SACD/whatever!

Ekstasis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 902
    • View Profile
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2013, 05:04:24 AM »
I like Binaural  recordings but why not do the same of the original mix also ?
it works in speakers too the effect..even though not in the same way.

What software do you use ?

Ekstasis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 902
    • View Profile
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2013, 05:06:50 AM »
one thing that is needed to point out though.. when you are playing around with the Binaural and spatial plugs they tend to kill a lot of the sound information within the sound..it sound cool though but it can also kill a lot of the beautiful details and smooth things out... But yeah, it can be used as it's own sound painting tool...works better for some sounds then others...

LNerell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
    • Personal website
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2013, 10:10:49 AM »
I like Binaural  recordings but why not do the same of the original mix also ?
it works in speakers too the effect..even though not in the same way.

First off it doesn't work very well using speakers from my experience, the 3D image gets lost and then their are usually extra phasing issues. Second the regular mix is done, in the can, ready to go, this was an after thought. I'm not going to toss out the regular mix and spend weeks trying to get a binaural mix to work well with speakers too especially since I am not sure their is much interest in this which is why I am here asking this question.

What software do you use ?

Logic Studio, it has binaural plugins included in the software.
Take care.

- Loren Nerell

El culto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 376
    • View Profile
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2013, 10:21:32 AM »
Loren, I donīt think itīs worth the effort.

OK, for tech-freaks or musicians like us here itīs more exciting, but for the average listeners i have big doubts - plus, probably they even donīt understand what you are talking about and/or what it means practically.

Scott M2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 636
    • View Profile
    • dreamSTATE
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2013, 10:48:35 AM »
BTW - there's an ORB/David Gilmour album "Metallic Spheres" that has a special edition with an alternate version/mix of the album in "360 sound" (some kind of alt binaural) but unfortunately I don't hear much difference - though I love having two distinct versions of the album. Also BTW it's my fave ORB album in quite a while.

Ekstasis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 902
    • View Profile
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2013, 11:01:45 AM »
Loren, I donīt think itīs worth the effort.

OK, for tech-freaks or musicians like us here itīs more exciting, but for the average listeners i have big doubts - plus, probably they even donīt understand what you are talking about and/or what it means practically.

I do not think ambient listeners are "average" listeners, this forum is a good example, almost every one here is making their own ambient in some way or another... I personally would like it, but what I do not like is to have 2 different mixes of the same album, in this kind of music two different music is almost like two different albums in my opinion.  Best would be to mix them to one if possible but maybe not having so much extreme  Binaural stuff in the mix maybe.


Ekstasis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 902
    • View Profile
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2013, 11:07:59 AM »
BTW - there's an ORB/David Gilmour album "Metallic Spheres" that has a special edition with an alternate version/mix of the album in "360 sound" (some kind of alt binaural) but unfortunately I don't hear much difference - though I love having two distinct versions of the album. Also BTW it's my fave ORB album in quite a while.


Regarding 360 sound I Heard this sound system about 2 weeks ago.  It did come quite clear to me that 360 degree or 180 degree tweeters are the future.



The speakers cost like a house and the receivers cost like a car..  Of course I think it is ridicules but I was impressed to experience true 360 sound, I could go anywhere in the room and the sound did feel the same no real "sweet spot" also it is supposed to be less tiring on the ears when the sound  is coming from a 360 speaker.  Would be nice to see it applied on a studio monitor rather them some over priced HiFi jumbojumbo

petekelly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 632
    • View Profile
    • LuminaSounds
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2013, 01:36:39 PM »
Hi Loren,

I'd say there's a big difference between binaural recordings and 'binaural plugins', which mostly appear to be some kind of HRTF (head related transfer functions) placement arrangements. Nothing wrong with that, I think they can be very interesting, using 'space' as a compositional consideration in a mix.

You don't lose information with the recording binaural technique, it's just a different way of capturing spatial information. I've found using a binaural recording of something like rain or a storm for example, gives a great spatial element to a track. Binaural recordings I'd say are
perhaps more suited to field recordings. If you (or anyone else) is interested in hearing an album of material derived from binaural recordings. I've made my 'Binaural Soundtracks' album a free download: 

http://db.tt/Yih70M83
(Dropbox link 67.9 MB zip file)

Ekstasis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 902
    • View Profile
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2013, 02:10:12 PM »
Hi Loren,

I'd say there's a big difference between binaural recordings and 'binaural plugins', which mostly appear to be some kind of HRTF (head related transfer functions) placement arrangements. Nothing wrong with that, I think they can be very interesting, using 'space' as a compositional consideration in a mix.

You don't lose information with the recording binaural technique, it's just a different way of capturing spatial information. I've found using a binaural recording of something like rain or a storm for example, gives a great spatial element to a track. Binaural recordings I'd say are
perhaps more suited to field recordings. If you (or anyone else) is interested in hearing an album of material derived from binaural recordings. I've made my 'Binaural Soundtracks' album a free download: 

http://db.tt/Yih70M83
(Dropbox link 67.9 MB zip file)


Well I guess it depends on how you record, do you record with microphone or synth.
If you use electronic sounds these plugins can be very good to create dimensional space...
in my opinion it works in both speakers and headphones.. but as always spatial effects sounds best in headphones usually.

Problem number 1 is, the number of good sounding plugins that do this kind of stuff is very limited, in fact I only know one  software that I would consider to buy and find actually useful.  But I am not sure if I am able to control it with midi, maybe it is possible nowdays, if it is now..I am very eager to buy it.. I tried the demo some years ago, and I did get very good and interesting results with it.  While using it I did find I got superior dimensional sound.


petekelly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 632
    • View Profile
    • LuminaSounds
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2013, 02:22:06 PM »
To clarify - the Binaural recording technique:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording

I studied ambisonics when I was a Uni, what constitutes dimensional space is very much open for discussion. Ditto for 'superior dimensional sound' :)

LNerell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
    • Personal website
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2013, 04:53:51 PM »
I've found using a binaural recording of something like rain or a storm for example, gives a great spatial element to a track. Binaural recordings I'd say are
perhaps more suited to field recordings.

Are you recording these field recordings binaurally or are you processing them later? I have tons of field recordings that I use in my music but none of it was recording binaurally, I don't have that kind of equipment. I'll give your recordings a listen later, thanks for the demo.

I've been looking at the software in Logic a bit more, reading up on it. I might play around with it later next week and see how it goes, if I can come up with anything interesting.
Take care.

- Loren Nerell

drone on

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1720
    • View Profile
Re: Binaural Recordings?
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2013, 02:03:20 AM »
You should call up Mark Prendergast and ask him his "expert" ambient opinion.  ;D