Author Topic: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)  (Read 2742 times)

Julio Di Benedetto

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2014, 07:23:05 AM »
Often people put together their signal chain starting at the instrument which of course is very important and work back to the monitors, which are imho the most important and you have mention 3 excellent monitors......so thats a great start.  These monitors are expensive but will outlast your other gear so in one sense they are a good investment which is something rare in audio gear.  Then with monitors of choice in place do your best to acoustically treat your room so you can really hear your sound. 

Enjoy the fun of creating.

Crossing_The_Threshold

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2014, 07:46:49 PM »
Thanks everyone for the excellent tips!

Crossing_The_Threshold

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2014, 08:52:25 PM »
But all of this stuff is really secondary to what you really need, inspiration. The tools won't be any good unless you have something to say.

I agree.  I would think it would be easier logistically and economically to start with a more basic setup and makes additions to it incrementally.  Otherwise, it may not always be clear what each component can add to the mix and in what order in the chain.  Of course, it helps greatly to have some music training to begin with and know some basics about synthesis, too.  The less prior training you have, the harder it might be for you to carry out what you are hearing in your head.

Forrest

I want to start differently. When I started in digital arts, I was always frustrated because I didn't had the money and I couldn't afford the tech tools I wanted. It would be easier to start with the right tools and just be creative instead of fighting with faulty hardware...

I never wanted to try to mimic something that was in my head, I prefer to be surprised and be like a driver, I use that method in other areas and honestly I prefer it that way.

ffcal

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2014, 10:57:04 PM »
But all of this stuff is really secondary to what you really need, inspiration. The tools won't be any good unless you have something to say.

I agree.  I would think it would be easier logistically and economically to start with a more basic setup and makes additions to it incrementally.  Otherwise, it may not always be clear what each component can add to the mix and in what order in the chain.  Of course, it helps greatly to have some music training to begin with and know some basics about synthesis, too.  The less prior training you have, the harder it might be for you to carry out what you are hearing in your head.

Forrest

I want to start differently. When I started in digital arts, I was always frustrated because I didn't had the money and I couldn't afford the tech tools I wanted. It would be easier to start with the right tools and just be creative instead of fighting with faulty hardware...

I never wanted to try to mimic something that was in my head, I prefer to be surprised and be like a driver, I use that method in other areas and honestly I prefer it that way.

There's no "right" way to create ambient music, so there's nothing wrong with starting big, if that works for you.  If by "right tools" you mean to include synthesizers and other tone generators, there are plenty of potential "right" choices.  But I would resist the temptation to discard your old "tools" for sake of acquiring new ones if you haven't exhausted the possibilities of what you already have.

By referring to what you hear on your head, I didn't mean to suggest that you should try to hear the piece in your head first.  I haven't worked that way in a long time.  I am referring more the tendency to assume that music training doesn't matter in creating ambient.  It really does matter in most cases. At a minimum, it should help you in structuring your pieces and in identifying different relationships within a piece.

Forrest

Crossing_The_Threshold

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2014, 09:08:33 AM »
@ Forrest

I didn't started using them yet! All these synths and gear was acquired during the last year in the second hand market.

I asked for advice, because first I need a recording and monitoring system, second a good reverb unit, third an analog and wavetable synth.

jkn

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2014, 07:38:54 AM »
Thomas - I'm just trying to say - wow you've got fantastic gear - sit down and use it for a bit... get to know what you have better - and then start shelling out more hard earned dollars...   that's all. 
John Koch-Northrup .: jkn [AT] johei.com .: owner / artist .: http://relaxedmachinery.com .: http://twitter.com/jkn .: http://flickr.com/johei

El culto

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2014, 06:09:43 PM »
Thomas - I'm just trying to say - wow you've got fantastic gear - sit down and use it for a bit... get to know what you have better - and then start shelling out more hard earned dollars...   that's all.

Yeah, but thats a kind of "standard advice"…if you read his post and particularly the last one it´s clear what is he asking for:

"I asked for advice, because first I need a recording and monitoring system, second a good reverb unit, third an analog and wavetable synth."

Greetings,
Tomas


Crossing_The_Threshold

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2014, 08:53:11 PM »
Thanks Tomas.

Indeed I came here for professional advice, not parenting, sorry it had to be said.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 09:06:46 PM by Crossing_The_Threshold »

Crossing_The_Threshold

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2014, 09:03:14 PM »
Oh btw, I decided to purchase the Neumann monitors, seems to be a great asset. Unfortunately I don't have an option to listen to them here in my country, but based in a ton of reviews I only see positive things about them, they are also small and discrete which is really nice.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 09:07:03 PM by Crossing_The_Threshold »

ffcal

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2014, 10:02:11 PM »
Thanks Tomas.

Indeed I came here for professional advice, not parenting, sorry it had to be said.

Pretty dumb thing for you to say when you came here for advice.  It had to be said.

Forrest
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 10:23:01 PM by ffcal »

Crossing_The_Threshold

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2014, 07:33:17 AM »
Thanks Tomas.

Indeed I came here for professional advice, not parenting, sorry it had to be said.

Pretty dumb thing for you to say when you came here for advice.  It had to be said.

Forrest

Not a problem I got better advice in another forum, I really enjoy your work, thanks!

petekelly

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2014, 09:15:50 AM »
Would you care to share the 'better' advice here ?, it may be of some use to someone else.

jkn

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2014, 06:57:18 AM »
Hey, no problem - I'm glad you found what you were looking for. 

John Koch-Northrup .: jkn [AT] johei.com .: owner / artist .: http://relaxedmachinery.com .: http://twitter.com/jkn .: http://flickr.com/johei

Crossing_The_Threshold

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2014, 09:48:00 AM »
Would you care to share the 'better' advice here ?, it may be of some use to someone else.

Sure:

Synths to complement existing ones:

Wavetable:

Waldorf Q
Waldorf XT

Analog:

Moog Sub 37
Oberheim Xpander

Recording:

Yamaha 01v96i digital mixer/audio interface/daw control

Monitors:

Neumann KH 120

Headphones:

Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 32 Ohm

FX:

Eventide Eclipse or Valhalla Plugins

Studio Microphone:

Shure SM57

Field Recording:

Roland R-26

Sennheiser MKH 416-P48U3

Daw:

Cubase AI (free license with yamaha 01v96i) or Protools

El culto

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2014, 11:32:08 AM »
Would you care to share the 'better' advice here ?, it may be of some use to someone else.

Sure:

Synths to complement existing ones:

Wavetable:

Waldorf Q
Waldorf XT

Analog:

Moog Sub 37
Oberheim Xpander

Recording:

Yamaha 01v96i digital mixer/audio interface/daw control

Monitors:

Neumann KH 120

Headphones:

Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 32 Ohm

FX:

Eventide Eclipse or Valhalla Plugins

Studio Microphone:

Shure SM57

Field Recording:

Roland R-26

Sennheiser MKH 416-P48U3

Daw:

Cubase AI (free license with yamaha 01v96i) or Protools

Excellent Choice!

Especially for those I own too…the 2 Waldorf Synths, Headphones (good you selected the 32 Ohm Version), Monitors and Mixer

You may want to look around if you can get a Yamaha FS1R - it´s like a extended FM7 but much more powerful with excellent sound…downside: it´s a rack expander and possibly very hard to find.

Greetings,
Tomas

Julio Di Benedetto

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2014, 01:00:57 PM »
Are the 2 Waldorfs necessary as both use the same wavetables and the Q has the virtual analog.....I had a micro Q a while back and loved the wavetables.  Maybe a Virus TI instead of the XT.  A different flavour of waves.  Just a thought.

LNerell

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2014, 01:07:41 PM »

Synths to complement existing ones:

Wavetable:

Waldorf Q
Waldorf XT
Personally I would hesitate to get either of these today. Those encoders are hard to replace and are starting to fail at this point in time. My personal favorite wavetable/wavesequencing synth is the Korg Wavestation, and they are really cheap right now. Get an EX or AD version.

Analog:

Moog Sub 37
Oberheim Xpander

Weird combo for ambient. I haven't heard the Sub 37 yet but I wasn't that impressed with the Sub Phatty which was what it is based on. Xpander is a classic but again make sure the encoders are all working well and that the displays are functioning, they don't make those displays anymore. And skip the Japanese version, when I worked at Oberheim we had lots of trouble with them.

Recording:

Yamaha 01v96i digital mixer/audio interface/daw control

Yamaha has made some nice digital boards, this is one of their low end ones and is getting a bit long in the tooth. It will work but their are better options out there that do the same thing. Take a look at the presonus studio/live boards.

Monitors:

Neumann KH 120

Neumann doesn't make monitors, those are Klein + Hummel monitors re-branded when Sennheiser bought them out. On the positive side they are still highly regarded monitors. I've never used them but they get very good reviews.

Headphones:

Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 32 Ohm

Their was another thread here recently about headphones, you might want to take a look at that one to see what others have said.

FX:

Eventide Eclipse or Valhalla Plugins

Lots of choices here, I don't have any Eventide stuff but I do like them. Valhalla a lot of people love but I've never used them. I already have tons of hardware reverb choices. Yeah I know, not much help here.

Studio Microphone:

Shure SM57

Is this your only microphone? And what do you plan to record with it? The SM57 has two things going for it, it's cheap and its built like a tank. They sound ok, not great. I would not get this as my one studio mic. If I had to use it in the studio recording you could get away using it on a snare drum or maybe a nasty Fender Twinreverb amp. The only other thing I would use it for is a live concert setting on something not critically important. If you want a cheap mic for the studio that sounds decent I'd go with a Rhode NT2 or something similar. If you have the money an AKG 414 is a pretty good all around mic with multiple patterns.

Field Recording:

Roland R-26

Sennheiser MKH 416-P48U3

We have one of those Roland recorders at work and the internal mics in that thing suck. And the Sennheiser, do you really need  a super-cardioid mic for something specific? If you are interested in doing field recording I wouldn't get this, the field is too narrow in my opinion.

Daw:

Cubase AI (free license with yamaha 01v96i) or Protools

Free Cubase, well you get what you pay for.  ;D And I don't like Protools, I'm more of a Logic fan, but you have to be mac based then.

There, is that helpful?  :D
Take care.

- Loren Nerell

Crossing_The_Threshold

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2014, 01:08:39 PM »
Thanks Tomas and Julio.

Yeah the FS1R was recommended to me too, I have to check some youtube videos.

Indeed the Q seems a great option, the TI is a beast I was considering this bad boy:

http://www.perfectcircuitaudio.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/v/i/virus-ti-polar-whiteout-special-edition-1_1.jpg

Crossing_The_Threshold

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2014, 01:44:12 PM »
Waldorf Q
Waldorf XT

Personally I would hesitate to get either of these today. Those encoders are hard to replace and are starting to fail at this point in time. My personal favorite wavetable/wavesequencing synth is the Korg Wavestation, and they are really cheap right now. Get an EX or AD version.

The wavestation is one of the most used synths, hard to program with few hands-on controls...
I have a good technician with good connections :) Shouldn't be a problem fixing those encoders if I get into trouble.


Moog Sub 37
Oberheim Xpander

Weird combo for ambient. I haven't heard the Sub 37 yet but I wasn't that impressed with the Sub Phatty which was what it is based on. Xpander is a classic but again make sure the encoders are all working well and that the displays are functioning, they don't make those displays anymore. And skip the Japanese version, when I worked at Oberheim we had lots of trouble with them.

Yeah, the american version is the best I'm aware. I can make more combinations, I have 6 synths so far, for even weirder combos. Is there a book of ambient rules? :)


Yamaha 01v96i digital mixer/audio interface/daw control

Yamaha has made some nice digital boards, this is one of their low end ones and is getting a bit long in the tooth. It will work but their are better options out there that do the same thing. Take a look at the presonus studio/live boards.

No the presonus is not a better option, it records @ 48 Khz and doesn't have motorized faders, not sure if the daw connection is any good, besides, this is the latest incarnation of their 01v line, a mature product, not a new one

Yeah it's a cut down version of 02r96 that Robert Rich uses, it uses same components but less features, still, it's the best digital entry mixer I've looked so far, I would consider the presonus a cheap mixer not the yamaha.

Neumann KH 120

Neumann doesn't make monitors, those are Klein + Hummel monitors re-branded when Sennheiser bought them out. On the positive side they are still highly regarded monitors. I've never used them but they get very good reviews.

Thanks for the history lesson.

Headphones:

Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 32 Ohm

Their was another thread here recently about headphones, you might want to take a look at that one to see what others have said.

These are good for me, I don't want to spend more on headphones, I'm not mixing with headphones.

FX:

Eventide Eclipse or Valhalla Plugins

Lots of choices here, I don't have any Eventide stuff but I do like them. Valhalla a lot of people love but I've never used them. I already have tons of hardware reverb choices. Yeah I know, not much help here.

Right.


Studio Microphone:

Shure SM57

Is this your only microphone? And what do you plan to record with it? The SM57 has two things going for it, it's cheap and its built like a tank. They sound ok, not great. I would not get this as my one studio mic. If I had to use it in the studio recording you could get away using it on a snare drum or maybe a nasty Fender Twinreverb amp. The only other thing I would use it for is a live concert setting on something not critically important. If you want a cheap mic for the studio that sounds decent I'd go with a Rhode NT2 or something similar. If you have the money an AKG 414 is a pretty good all around mic with multiple patterns.


I'm planning to record singing bowls, sitars and improvised sound sources, like stones, brushes etc, not vocals.


Field Recording:

Roland R-26

Sennheiser MKH 416-P48U3

We have one of those Roland recorders at work and the internal mics in that thing suck. And the Sennheiser, do you really need  a super-cardioid mic for something specific? If you are interested in doing field recording I wouldn't get this, the field is too narrow in my opinion.

Cool and the alternative is?


Daw:

Cubase AI (free license with yamaha 01v96i) or Protools

Free Cubase, well you get what you pay for.  ;D And I don't like Protools, I'm more of a Logic fan, but you have to be mac based then.


I'm pc based, so I will stick with the industry standard protools or cubase for starting.


There, is that helpful?  :D

Meh... :)



« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 03:10:04 PM by Crossing_The_Threshold »

El culto

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2014, 01:49:41 PM »
Quote from: LNerell

Personally I would hesitate to get either of these today. Those encoders are hard to replace and are starting to fail at this point in time.


This encoders fail? The first time  ever I´ve read this - what´s your source?…just to be sure: you are talking about the endless encoders?


Quote from: LNerell
Neumann doesn't make monitors, those are Klein + Hummel monitors re-branded when Sennheiser bought them out.


That is not completely correct. True is, that Sennheiser bought them (Neumann is part of Sennheiser group) - the new models are not just re-branded but completely technically rebuild, even they look similar.

Quote from: LNerell
Is this your only microphone? And what do you plan to record with it? The SM57 has two things going for it, it's cheap and its built like a tank. They sound ok, not great. I would not get this as my one studio mic. If I had to use it in the studio recording you could get away using it on a snare drum or maybe a nasty Fender Twinreverb amp. The only other thing I would use it for is a live concert setting on something not critically important. If you want a cheap mic for the studio that sounds decent I'd go with a Rhode NT2 or something similar. If you have the money an AKG 414 is a pretty good all around mic with multiple patterns.


Agreed…Sm57 isn´t an good all-round mic…great alternative for voice and most acoustic instruments:

http://www.microtechgefell.de/index.php/en/microphones/studio-a-recording/large-membrane-transistor-mics/211-m930


Quote from: LNerell
Free Cubase, well you get what you pay for.  ;D And I don't like Protools, I'm more of a Logic fan, but you have to be mac based then.


I also think the free Cubase version isn´t a good choice….but for Midi (controlling your hardware synths) IMO Cubase is still the best option on the market - talking about the full version….Logic really sucks when it comes to Midi when you don´t want to go into the stupid environment (not talking about the 1 window GUI). Also, even the new Logic version still includes the old audio engine.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 01:58:56 PM by El culto »