Author Topic: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)  (Read 3014 times)

Cosmic Fabric

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2014, 04:32:46 PM »
Thanks Tomas.

Any good recommendation in the 500 euros price range? 1000 it's a bit steep for a mic.

Ekstasis

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2014, 07:09:01 PM »
Would you care to share the 'better' advice here ?, it may be of some use to someone else.

Sure:

Synths to complement existing ones:

Wavetable:

Waldorf Q
Waldorf XT

Analog:

Moog Sub 37
Oberheim Xpander

Recording:

Yamaha 01v96i digital mixer/audio interface/daw control

Monitors:

Neumann KH 120

Headphones:

Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 32 Ohm

FX:

Eventide Eclipse or Valhalla Plugins

Studio Microphone:

Shure SM57

Field Recording:

Roland R-26

Sennheiser MKH 416-P48U3

Daw:

Cubase AI (free license with yamaha 01v96i) or Protools


You seem to have a quite big budget.
From what I have heard the Eventide Eclipse does not come close to the H8000FW.
The price point is very tempting but the sound quality is not nearly as good and not as good converters which probably is the main reason.
Do not believe the marketing on this one, all pros who compare with the H8000FW says the same really..

Anyway try it out, I am sure you can find it cheap used somewhere if you are not happy with it there is plenty of other alternatives..

I have not heard the DT770, but I would not recommend for instance my DT880 for ambient, if they have similar problem with the high frequencies.  I am on the hunt for new headphones myself..but it is hard.. to find the perfect phones..

I think it is about personal preference, and how pure you want your sound chain, personally mixing high end gear with budget mixers I would be careful about, I have heard good things about the Yamaha 01v96i  great bang for the buck and motorized faders etc.. are you going to use it only as a digital mixer ?

I understand you are going to use the Yamaha 01v96i as your monitor controller also, this is a very important part of the chain,  different monitor controllers can make speakers sounds like new speakers as it did for me when switching from Dangerous audio Source to Antelope Audio Eclipse so yeah..  please consider that, try to think long term.

You might want to look into the new SSL Sigma digitally controlled analogue mixer and monitor controller.
It cost slightly more then your Yamaha but it is worth the money for sure, this is maybe one of the first time you can get a mixer with the sound of an high end console in this price range.

The whole idea with this, it is an analogue mixer inside of this box, but you can control it through your computer in your DAW you will still change the volume the Analogue way NOT the digital way since it is an analogue summing mixer.  Well just some ideas... to consider in your sound chain... since you want to use a mixer...  You can buy for instance the upcoming Behringer X-toch or X -Touch compact with motorized faders and to control the Sigma through midi, you will now have the sound of en Expensive SSL console for not much more then what you would pay for the Yamaha mixer plus a probably a a lot better monitor controller and monitor output.

Well so many things to consider... so many solutions ... I just giving you some ideas...




« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 09:20:43 PM by Immersion »

Ekstasis

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2014, 09:02:02 PM »
also, what kind of pre amps are you planing to use both your mics and the xpander needs a pre amp.
Also are you sure about the xpander have you try it or do you own it already ?
sorry if I have not been reading the whole thread...I had the Xpander for a while  I decided to sell it.
It is not the the first thing I would spend the money.. in a new studio.

Cosmic Fabric

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2014, 09:05:35 AM »
Thanks for your input Immersion.

I don't have high end sources, so that ssl piece of gear, is out of my budget :)

If you check my synth list, you won't see an andromeda, matrix 12 or a JB solaris.

I would pay 3k for a mixer if it was better than the yamaha 01v96i... But I didn't found one, any tips?

People mention the presonus, but IMO it's not comparable to the yamaha...




Cosmic Fabric

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2014, 09:13:21 AM »
also, what kind of pre amps are you planing to use both your mics and the xpander needs a pre amp.
Also are you sure about the xpander have you try it or do you own it already ?
sorry if I have not been reading the whole thread...I had the Xpander for a while  I decided to sell it.
It is not the the first thing I would spend the money.. in a new studio.

That mixer have preamps based on some reviews they seem pretty good, again, in that price range.

Well I don't have any analog gear so far, so my first option is the moog sub 37, I want to check the differences against digital VA equipment, i'm making it part of my studies.

Purchasing an Xpander depends on a lot of factors, luck, budget and overall shape of the gear. So let's see if I get an opportunity in the future.

Ekstasis

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2014, 11:36:53 PM »
Thanks for your input Immersion.

I don't have high end sources, so that ssl piece of gear, is out of my budget :)

If you check my synth list, you won't see an andromeda, matrix 12 or a JB solaris.

I would pay 3k for a mixer if it was better than the yamaha 01v96i... But I didn't found one, any tips?

People mention the presonus, but IMO it's not comparable to the yamaha...


I am not sure where you live but here where I live an used xpander is about a price of an andromeda so I consider it High end.

Anyway I did look on the Yamaha mixer, it looks like the price has gone down little bit since last I checked,  I looked at http://www.thomann.de/. Well it will be hard to beat it for all the functionality you get for the price.   But you should think hard and really think if you really need all the functionality, do you really need motorized faders ?  you can get an x toch later for instance they will not cost much,  and do you really need this many channels ? are you sure you will have so many sources ?  I would prefer to pay for quality instead of quantity.

I just don't want you to buy the Yamaha to later upgrade, if you find it second hand it would be the best..and most future proof.

It is had to get a good console sound quality for the budget, not even the budget mixers of SSL is good,  the best quality you will get is for rackbased summing mixers, this will not have faders but will have knobs instead but superior sound, depnding on the amount of channels you really need you can get down in price kind of a lot.

if you cut down on the channels you might be able to hold your budget...

if you use a summing mixer you can use the Dangerous Audio Source for AD/DA and monitor controller.
This have the same audio path as the high end dangerous audio products..same DAC chips..so extremely good bang for the buck and you can use it as an USB interface in your DAW.

Warm audio have a few very good sounding budget pre amps..but again it all depends on how many channels you really need for simultaneous use. even cheaper but probably a lot better then the yamaha pre amps is the Golden Age preamps.  If you record alone on that have many sound sources you might overestimate the amount of channels you really need atleast to start with you..you can always upgrade later...

But yeah I don't know if you strongly want a mixer with faders like that and all stuff in the same unit if I would have to choose between the Yamaha and the Behringer X32 Compact I would probably have choosen the X32 it does probably have a better second hand value also if you want to upgrade later....  I guess it all depends on how anal you are with your signal chain...if you want a high number of channels it will be hard to hold that budget..only if you pay about  1000 to 2300 dollars extra, if you can cut down on the amount of channels more doors will open.  If you still want that number of channels and all functionality I am not sure I have any more ideas.

If you really want to hold your strict budget I would try to buy as much second hand as possible... there is a lot of good stuff to be find out there...






 

El culto

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2014, 04:36:24 AM »
Quote from: Immersion


…. Behringer……. a better second hand value

 ;D ;D ;D

Ekstasis

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2014, 05:06:57 AM »
Quote from: Immersion


…. Behringer……. a better second hand value

 ;D ;D ;D

Better second hand value then the Yamaha yes, cause it is a newer product and also has become a very popular and successful product.

Ekstasis

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2014, 05:34:54 AM »
Behringer might not have the best reputation but I think they have been reborn again..it was a time when they released good products... .. and their latest products X toch and Motör controller looks very promising too..the X32 is a Midas and behringer hybrid product... and considering that the X32 looks very similar in many ways to the Midas products I think they have a very good cooperation which maybe goes beyond just the converter.  It is not in anyway that I protect Behringer in anyway, but you can't deny the immense price value of the X32.  If you just use it as a DAW controller for the motorised faders and compare it with SSL Nucleus for instance the X32 is still a very good price value.

Personally I would not use the converters in my own studio.. but if the choice is The Yamaha Mixer the X32 is probably a better choice in all regards and they have about the same price for the X32 compact version.

As I said.. if the thread creator can consider to have less channels a lot more doors will open..
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 05:36:48 AM by Immersion »

Cosmic Fabric

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2014, 08:37:13 AM »
Thanks again Immersion.

Yes, I have a lot of sources, 6 synths, some with multiple outputs, the scenario is live layered recording.

I live in europe, a second hand andromeda can cost around 3000 euros (USD 4000), here technology is expensive.
So I don't need high end ssl gear, the best output I have is from my Roland V-Synth.

That yamaha costs here around 1980 euros (USD 2700) and yes, for the features it can't be beaten... the only thing that would piss me, is if they release a new product soon.
Yes I want all that functionality, for me it doesn't make sense, to buy 3 pieces of hardware, If I can can buy one that sum the 3 and it's integrated.

And the yamaha DM-1000? a better choice?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 09:01:30 AM by Crossing_The_Threshold »

Ekstasis

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2014, 09:51:32 AM »
I live in Sweden but I buy a lot from Germany cause it is cheaper.

Alright I understand now, but the price difference for the yamaha and the x32 compact is only 200 dollars, considering your threshold  for me the choice would had been easy.

http://www.thomann.de/de/behringer_x_32_compact.htm

well, it exist good solutions with all in one units,  Prism audio have some good products..for instance..but they are expensive... I myself have the Antelope Eclipse, which is basically 3 products in one too..

hmm the DM 1000 doesn't that cost like 6000 EUR ? your budget suddenly changed ?


Cosmic Fabric

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2014, 12:38:23 PM »
I live in Sweden but I buy a lot from Germany cause it is cheaper.

Alright I understand now, but the price difference for the yamaha and the x32 compact is only 200 dollars, considering your threshold  for me the choice would had been easy.

http://www.thomann.de/de/behringer_x_32_compact.htm

well, it exist good solutions with all in one units,  Prism audio have some good products..for instance..but they are expensive... I myself have the Antelope Eclipse, which is basically 3 products in one too..

hmm the DM 1000 doesn't that cost like 6000 EUR ? your budget suddenly changed ?


Behringer is a shit, sorry, I hate that shitty company, please don't recommend me their crap, because I had bad experiences with them in the past.

No, the budget is the same, considering second hand DM 1000 from a studio selling it here.


Cosmic Fabric

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2014, 12:43:45 PM »
My main concern with second hand audio gear, is excessive wear, especially when it comes to motorized faders. I don't want to make you feel I'm a nuisance but it's an important investment for years to come, and prefer to make questions now, than to be sorry at a later time.

Ekstasis

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2014, 01:00:39 PM »
I live in Sweden but I buy a lot from Germany cause it is cheaper.

Alright I understand now, but the price difference for the yamaha and the x32 compact is only 200 dollars, considering your threshold  for me the choice would had been easy.

http://www.thomann.de/de/behringer_x_32_compact.htm

well, it exist good solutions with all in one units,  Prism audio have some good products..for instance..but they are expensive... I myself have the Antelope Eclipse, which is basically 3 products in one too..

hmm the DM 1000 doesn't that cost like 6000 EUR ? your budget suddenly changed ?


Behringer is a shit, sorry, I hate that shitty company, please don't recommend me their crap, because I had bad experiences with them in the past.

No, the budget is the same, considering second hand DM 1000 from a studio selling it here.


You was asking for budget recommendation.

Behringer have working up their reputation with their latest products I must say, to call them "shit" is not fair, for the price you pay you get a lot..  I have not claimed to be high end but it surely beat the first yamaha mixer you did mention.

It is not exactly like "yamaha" is a good company any more (for audio), they are more well known for their budget products now days. It is not like just because it is a yamaha product it is good quality.  But if you have a strong dissuasive feeling about Behringer..you probably stay away form them then...but since we are not starting to talking about second hand market totally new doors open..since you then might not need to buy budget equipment.

I can't really comment on the DM 1000, but considering the new price is about 6000 EUR one could expect it is more aimed for the pro market so you might expect it to perform better...for that used price it might be a gold find.

Ekstasis

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2014, 01:07:52 PM »
My main concern with second hand audio gear, is excessive wear, especially when it comes to motorized faders. I don't want to make you feel I'm a nuisance but it's an important investment for years to come, and prefer to make questions now, than to be sorry at a later time.

Yes I understand, what you mean, Behringer have had quality problems with their B control products in the past.
But in all honesty I see not much similarities with this very old B control product compared to the new product which probably was designed by completely different people and budget.  I saw some video on youtube from the factory who makes x32   they said they did a lot of quality testing with this x32 product...  but yeah you never know... you only have 3 years warranty... do you have a big need for motorised faders ?

El culto

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2014, 02:50:50 PM »
Thanks Tomas.

Any good recommendation in the 500 euros price range? 1000 it's a bit steep for a mic.


Really depends what you are looking for!

I assume a stereo mic makes a lot of sense when it comes for what you are planing to do. Also it´s about you "sound preference"…for instance, i don´t like at all mic´s which have a boost in the top end (like Neumann and many others do, especially to give the signal more "shining") but prefer more a "warm/round" sound. If you are into this as well, then Oktava is a very good recommendation:

http://www.thomann.de/de/oktava_mk_102_msp2_silver_stereo_pair.htm

or

http://www.thomann.de/de/oktava_mk_012_20_black.htm

or

http://www.thomann.de/de/oktava_mk_102_stereo_pair_msp2_black.htm

Greetings,
Tomas


Ekstasis

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2014, 03:56:42 PM »
I guess this explains a lot why I had the sense that "behringer " has been "reborn"

http://www.audioprointernational.com/news/read/behringer-buys-midas-and-klark-teknik/01874

Regarding X32, the story goes that it was first a midas project... but was taken over by Behringer when they bought Midas. So it is not a true "behringer" product.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 04:07:13 PM by Immersion »

Ekstasis

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2014, 10:27:52 AM »


This new Midas M32 will have a price 4999 dollar as it seem it is the same price as an x32 (non compact version).

http://www.audiotechnology.com.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Midas-M32-Front.jpg

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/new-product-alert/381593d1390501328-namm-2014-midas-m32-m32-product-shot.jpg

unbeatable price of course...might be too expensive for you still I just wanted to show you...cause it is an upcoming product soon to be released.

Cosmic Fabric

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2014, 04:25:55 PM »
Thanks guys, yeah that midas mixer look sick!

Ekstasis

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Re: Help me finishing my ambient setup :)
« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2014, 04:33:04 PM »
yes it is expensive but not totally out of reach for a small home studio..

I just wish it had EQ knobs like a real mixer board.