Author Topic: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?  (Read 18738 times)

Tardigrade

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2018, 02:21:37 PM »

CDs, vinyl and cassettes  ;D will still continue to be purchased however storage after a lifetime of collecting music is now a major issue. Thank goodness for downloads in that regard.
 

Digitize and remaster everything physical.  If you have been collecting for a long time, it's quite likely a lot of the tracks could benefit from some careful remastering.  Only keep cds and lps that you like more than 60% of just in case the worst case digital scenario happens.  Also keep rare physicals that could fetch silly money someday.  Sell the rest of your physical collection for a pittance or throw it directly in the trash.

Tardigrade

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2018, 02:08:07 PM »
I also would never digitize my media. I simply try to be careful with it.
Eventually: Remastering is imo mostly a disadvantage for the original (but not always).

Please explain why you would never digitize your media and how remastering is mostly a disadvantage.

Tardigrade

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2018, 02:19:47 PM »
You "simply don't like to digitize" and have many reasons for it, but have shared none of them.  Then you said:  "Remastering old media mostly means brighter/louder and to compress edges and subtly tones/movements". 

Remastering old or even brand new media can be the opposite of what you said.  To be fair, it is often something closer to what you said especially with pre 2000 files, but without the assumptive negative effects. 

When remastering any song, the goal is to produce something that sounds better to my ears than the original.  My goal is not to make the loudest or brightest file possible.  My goal is to make every song sound the way I want it to.  The end result is a large collection of audio that can be played at random without ever needing to adjust the volume or EQ.  There are some exceptions to this.  Brian Eno faded into 80s Industrial is expected to have a noticeable loudness difference even if they have a similar RMS value.  Drone music can actually be subjectively louder than more abrasive music at the same RMS. 

I understand some artists feel this is a sacrilegious / offensive thing to do.  I wish they didn't feel that way.  They should be glad I paid money for their product and carefully modified it to suit my ears and make it fit into a much broader playlist.

Tardigrade

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2018, 04:36:04 PM »
The beauty of remastering your collection to suit your ears is you still get to keep the original.  Digitally capturing vinyl sounds exactly the same as it was played from a turntable assuming you have an average modern audio interface.  You don't have to modify it after that unless you want to.  Digital is forever. Vinyl isn't.  Pops and clicks occur over time.  I enjoy the pops and clicks I've captured digitally.

No I have never regretted remastering audio I purchased.  A/B comparisons happen in real time.  The original is always there in just in case I realize I messed up the remaster long after it happened.       

stargazer

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2018, 10:54:41 PM »
Music from vinyl creates real waves. Digital music consists of bits and bytes. Bits and bytes cannot simulate real vibrations.
Depending on the recording resolution they generate artefacts. Digital cannot replace real waves. It comes close but it is not the same.

There is simply no need to argument about pro and contra. We collect music and we stream it. We all enjoy music and we connect through it. To share some insights about everyones own experiences and preferences does not mean that we disagree. We just enjoy different pathes and different views.

Seren

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2018, 04:10:32 AM »
I think the discussion around digital Vs analogue is very circular - there are pros and cons for all formats - all have their individual artefacts.

As much as I loved the turntable and speakers of my youth, I hated the hiss, crackle, warp and scratches.....I kept my records very carefully, always buying solid inner and outer protective sleeves (was always amazed how many people kept records with all the 'gaps' lined up so the record would fall out when you picked the cover up...)

Given most of us are recording digitally, even the records have DAC converted bits and bytes on them. If we use digital sound sources then we have bits and bytes right at the start.

It would never occur to me to remaster someone else's music.
   I try to get into the mind of the composer - but I also prefer instrumental music because I am free to imagine whatever the music inspires in my mind, rather than having my thoughts directed by lyrics.
   But I suppose the remastering Tardigrade describes is just an extension of how I used to record tracks to cassette to create compilations - taking what is given and changing it for my own preference. It's amazing that the technology to achieve it is now so easily available.....(showing my age there a little....)

Castleview

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2018, 05:49:41 PM »
I think the discussion around digital Vs analogue is very circular - there are pros and cons for all formats - all have their individual artefacts.

That sums up my thoughts on it. Those discussions never seem to go anywhere but it's amazing how heated some of them can get. Now this has been a totally civil discussion but I still remember Ekstasis going at it with other users here and I always thought it was so silly to see him argue with musicians who had far more experience in the subject because he was such an analog audiophile.
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APK

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2018, 06:46:24 PM »
I'm often reminded of Sartre talking about images.
When I look at a photograph of my friend Pierre, he says, I don't see an image of Pierre, I see Pierre.

An LP 's grooves are an analog(ue) of the music.
As is the electric signal generated via the needle that plays the LP.
So are the bits and bytes on a CD.


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Seren

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2018, 12:49:57 AM »
I know there are even discussions about Mono being the best and only true representation of music.

petekelly

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2018, 12:24:54 PM »
Mono indeed ! - don't we have two ears.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 12:27:00 PM by petekelly »

APK

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2018, 04:41:00 PM »
I know there are even discussions about Mono being the best and only true representation of music.

Sounds like yet another analog is best thing. Analog mono synths are the original essence of electronic music.  ;D
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Tardigrade

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2018, 05:00:54 PM »
Quote
Music from vinyl creates real waves. Digital music consists of bits and bytes. Bits and bytes cannot simulate real vibrations.  Depending on the recording resolution they generate artefacts. Digital cannot replace real waves. It comes close but it is not the same.
 

24bit/96k or even 24bit/48k recorded with a semi pro quality rig sounds exactly like the input.  Literally no one can reliably tell the difference when there is a less than a 20% chance of guessing correctly.  I agree things on vinyl sound different than the same release on a CD.  A lot of this has to do with the needle and the turntable.  LPs are romantic.  I love them.  I also love to capture them digitally at their prime.  The prime LP for me is one that has a bit of dust in the grooves.   

Tardigrade

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2018, 05:20:15 PM »

It would never occur to me to remaster someone else's music. I try to get into the mind of the composer - but I also prefer instrumental music because I am free to imagine whatever the music inspires in my mind, rather than having my thoughts directed by lyrics. 

But I suppose the remastering Tardigrade describes is just an extension of how I used to record tracks to cassette to create compilations - taking what is given and changing it for my own preference. It's amazing that the technology to achieve it is now so easily available.....(showing my age there a little....)
 

The purpose of me remastering my collection of 10,000+ songs is not to disrespect artists that I admire.  It's intended to make my entire collection of music significantly more compatible when played randomly.  If I didn't do this, it would be impossible to enjoy a random play from my entire collection unless I rode the fader, several EQs and compressors. 

I have unapologetically remastered Brian Eno, Steve Roach, Robert Rich and pretty much everyone famous and not really famous in Ambient.  I'm very happy with the way they sound now and don't think anyone would object to what I have done if they listened to it with my system.

Seren

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2018, 12:42:16 AM »
Hi Tardigrade, I was purely reflecting on my own thought processes, in response to what others have been saying, not making any judgement on anyone's actions.

As I said, given the technology available to do whatever with whatever, changing what someone has put out is an extension of making mixtapes.

I know that when I buy cd players I always by single disc players as I want to be conscious of what I am choosing to listen to. I don't have streaming services, don't use computer's to play music and never use random/shuffle mode on CDs or MP3 players - just my own personal preferences for listening.

Similarly when I am out in some beautiful part of the world I don't carry a music player as I want to listen to what's going on around me.

Castleview

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2018, 06:16:47 AM »

It would never occur to me to remaster someone else's music. I try to get into the mind of the composer - but I also prefer instrumental music because I am free to imagine whatever the music inspires in my mind, rather than having my thoughts directed by lyrics. 

But I suppose the remastering Tardigrade describes is just an extension of how I used to record tracks to cassette to create compilations - taking what is given and changing it for my own preference. It's amazing that the technology to achieve it is now so easily available.....(showing my age there a little....)
 

The purpose of me remastering my collection of 10,000+ songs is not to disrespect artists that I admire.  It's intended to make my entire collection of music significantly more compatible when played randomly.  If I didn't do this, it would be impossible to enjoy a random play from my entire collection unless I rode the fader, several EQs and compressors. 

I have unapologetically remastered Brian Eno, Steve Roach, Robert Rich and pretty much everyone famous and not really famous in Ambient.  I'm very happy with the way they sound now and don't think anyone would object to what I have done if they listened to it with my system.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of what you do is getting the volumes more consistent between different albums with some subtle EQ'ing here and there.
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petekelly

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2018, 10:39:16 AM »
I know there are even discussions about Mono being the best and only true representation of music.

Sounds like yet another analog is best thing. Analog mono synths are the original essence of electronic music.  ;D

I was referring to monaural, as opposed to monophonic :)

SunDummy

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2018, 01:33:28 PM »
Some interesting work being done by ZoStream; supposedly true lossless digital.

Their patent was granted last fall; they're currently chasing funding and working up prototypes.



Long discussion thread about it here:  https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/314365-Patent-Licensing-Advice
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Castleview

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2018, 02:07:40 PM »
Some interesting work being done by ZoStream; supposedly true lossless digital.

Their patent was granted last fall; they're currently chasing funding and working up prototypes.



Long discussion thread about it here:  https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/314365-Patent-Licensing-Advice

I feel like vinyl manufacturers would try to prevent that from becoming a reality any time soon.
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SunDummy

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2018, 02:36:34 PM »
I feel like vinyl manufacturers would try to prevent that from becoming a reality any time soon.

Possibly...  Maybe it's a technology they could license, and market themselves? 

It's still far from being fully realized at this point.
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Tardigrade

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Re: How Has Streaming Effected our Identities as Music Collectors?
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2018, 04:24:49 PM »

I wouldn't be surprised if most of what you do is getting the volumes more consistent between different albums with some subtle EQ'ing here and there.
 

Sure, a lot of that happens with 35-50% of the audio.  Nothing more than a simple gain adjustment and subtle EQ.  Keep in mind, my collection of audio starts at 1937 and half of it was made before 2000.  I continue to buy new music in 2018.  The music since 2005 is less likely to need significant adjustments.

However, a lot of the pre 1995 content and even some 2005+ content really needed some major remastering to hang with my entire collection played randomly at an average 16-12rms.  This included broadband compression, frequency specific compression, stereo width adjustments, complicated EQ, transparent limiting and occasionally a touch of reverb.  Some really old recordings benefited from some noise reduction. 

Robert Rich and Steve Roach have been making excellent music since 1980 something.  However, there is a very big difference in the way they master their music today.  I prefer the way they master their music today.