Any ideas what we could do to improve this place?

[APK]

Yes.

[mgriffin]

I thought so! 

[mgriffin]

I've been moving lots of threads into sections that fit better, now that we've created more finely-tuned forum areas. There's no possible way I'll get this done, so it'll be an ongoing project.

[richardgurtler]

I didn't have enough time to take part in this discussion during the week. So few words now, I really enjoy Hypnos Forum the way it is. But of course I don't have any problems with some ongoing updates. Mike & Lena are doing fantastic job with the whole Hypnos, my big thanks to them as well as to all those who are contributing to this forum, I am very happy to be here!!! And when mentioning Relaxed Machinery, I can say just the same about John and the whole community involved. I am not going to campare them, because each of them has its own identity, and that's what I like on these two forums. All the best and keep on going for many years to come!!!

Richard

[El culto]

IMO itīs now a bit messed up...

Hypnos Relateted activities - donīt understand the deeper purpose of this. When a Hypnos artist releases anywhere else, from my logic, this should be then in "Other ambient" section too. Otherwise you expect from people to know what are all the "Hypnos" artists. Beside from this aspect i believe this section will be finally stay quite empty - there is simply not much what can be added there.

Greetings,
Tomas

[mgriffin]

It may be possible that we've ended up creating too many sections, but it's easy enough to backtrack and trim one or two.

We needed an area for artists who have released on Hypnos to announce their non-Hypnos projects, so that we can have an area reserved for Hypnos releases only. You say those posts should go into the "other" section, but we will see. I think that section will have a lot of activity.

[El culto]

It may be possible that we've ended up creating too many sections, but it's easy enough to backtrack and trim one or two.

We needed an area for artists who have released on Hypnos to announce their non-Hypnos projects, so that we can have an area reserved for Hypnos releases only. You say those posts should go into the "other" section, but we will see. I think that section will have a lot of activity.

Yes, the activity there will be more there. I just think that most people at the end will not care about a section "Hypnos artist with releases outside of Hypnos" and those releases  of these artist might get lost at the end because people will likely go into the "other" section since they expect to find them there.

The easiest might be to ask all the Hypnos artist what they think!

Cheers,
Tomas

[mgriffin]

Everybody is free to give input -- Hypnos artists, other artists and labels, DJs, reviewers, fans, lurkers, whatever. I'm trying to take in to account the wishes and preferences people are expressing here.

At least at first, I'd rather err on the side of creating one or two more sections than we need, and if some of those are extra we can clean up and consolidate later.

[Julio Di Benedetto]

Generally I like where the forum is going...a few thoughts

You might consider putting the Hypnos Forums in there own section.   So the first main header would be Hypnos Recordings contain the 3 sub section: News, Releases & Activities.  The the next header.....Music, Ambience & Sound Art.  This might help to visually break up the first section and also it is the Hypnos forum and should have its own area away from the "masses".

To me there seems to be a gray area between the Hypnos Related Activities, Forum Members Project & Other Ambient Music Forum.  Each makes sense its just I have a bit of work to do  (maybe this is a good thing)  I have decide what Im looking for and then figure out where within these 3 sections do I go to find it because they sort of overlap...... Perhaps we should just test drive it for a while and see if it feels right.

[APK]

Hmmm, yep, I agree, its perhaps a good idea to have a separate Hypnos main section.

[ffcal]

I like the new direction of the forum, too, though I think may be a few too many topics at the moment.  I'm not sure I would break out Forum member music from non-Forum member music.  When artists hear that their music is being discussed and join the forum, the topic would be in the wrong place.   Also I'm not sure I would create two separate topics for gearheads.  Maybe a subfolder or two separate threads under a single topic?

Glad to hear about the embedding, though I hope this doesn't create too much "My Space-ish me-me-and three" posting.  Thanks, Mike for your tireless work in bringing this together.

Forrest

[El culto]

I like the new direction of the forum, too, though I think may be a few too many topics at the moment.  I'm not sure I would break out Forum member music from non-Forum member music.  When artists hear that their music is being discussed and join the forum, the topic would be in the wrong place.   

Yes, i thought about this point as well and indeed from the perspective of a visitor not really comfortable to look what is the right place - also it messes up if a lets say, a forum member post something  (seen as self promotion) and maybe some days later another member start as well a topic about the same issue (seen as discussion)....very confusing....as example Anthonyīpost:

http://www.hypnos.com/smf/index.php?topic=3992.0

Should be in "Self promotion section" . but what if "Richard" write a review? Obviously this review should be then placed by Richard in review section....at the end itīs more complicated then before.

Cheers,
Tomas

[jkn]

all change takes a bit of getting used  to ....  I'll have to wander around a bit and see what's up! 

[mgriffin]

I'll do a few more adjustments today. The goal is to give people more options and clarity of organization (as this may encourage people to post more or at least visit/lurk more often), not to make it difficult for people to figure out where to post things or look for things.

I just want to say again I appreciate all input, and even if I don't act immediately on a suggestion I take them all into consideration.

[mgriffin]

After consideration, I agree that the two forum sections, one for "forum member self promotion" and one for "non-Hypnos activities by Hypnos artists" can be combined. If a Hypnos artists does a non-Hypnos album or video or soundtrack, they can publicize it in the "forum member self-promotion" area well enough. This should help clear up confusion about where postings should go.

I admit there remains some potential for overlap between the "forum member self-promotion" area and the "other ambient music" area, especially if someone's work is being discussed and they show up and become a member.

To me the key distinction is creating a topic to announce or promote your own project. If somebody wants to talk about Steve Roach, and after two pages of debate Steve shows up here to comment, that doesn't mean the topic is suddenly self-promotion. Yes, in many cases a topic ends up being "visited" by the person it's about, but I don't think that's a problem. The bottom line is that I think there's a big difference between some listener talking about music they enjoy, and some artist or label promoting their own project. That's the difference between those two sections. If once in a while some topic shifts from one to the other, it won't be a big deal to move it.

[jkn]

The difference is...

a)   here's my new album please buy it!

b)  wow guys, thanks for talking about me for 18 pages, that is really really cool, I'm honored!  ... lemme splain about that can of beans i was using for the rhythm part in track 5.  YOu see the size of the spoon hitting the can makes a big difference - and I used a mic placed about 18" away for that natural can of beans thwack ... 

[Scott M2]

I'd like to "promote" retitling "Forum Member Projects and Self-Promotion" to
"Forum Members' Projects - Promotion and Discussion".

In the world of ambient, small labels and self-publishing are the norm and
therefore self-promotion = promotion, other than reviews and fan commentaries.

I understand wariness about over-promotion whether self or otherwise
but I think it's past time to treat self-publishing (and therefore self-promotion)
in ambient music the way self-publishing is treated in book-publishing - 
as "vanity projects" instead of as 100% self-created, 100% self-controlled
and 100% pure-vision.

A significant part of this forum was created for "self promotion" by Hypnos
and it's positive and effective.

One wants and expects labels and artists to promote their works
so we can learn about them and to set the balls rolling.
It is their duty to their art.

_{steps off milk-carton}

[mgriffin]

So Scott, just to make sure I understand, you're just objecting to the term "self-promotion" and not so much to how the sections are broken down?

I personally don't have a problem with self-promotion either, at least within reason -- I just ask people who are going to self-promote to make some effort to contribute in other ways as well.

[Scott M2]

Yes - I'm just objecting to the term "self-promotion" because really it's just "promotion".

BTW - I'm also tired of people apologising for "self-promotion". What are you? Canadian?
It's part of your new-world job-description to promote your art so people can know about it.
Apologise for not promoting.

As for the way the sections are broken down - I appreciate that you're re-consolidating now,
as I found there were a few too many categories for a quick browse - but wanted to live with them
for a while before commenting. Cheers!

[APK]

Plus other people can promote albums in this section too, so it not just for "self-promotion".
I'd also be from dropping "self".