Prometheus Musings, and More (Discussion W/ Spoilers)

Started by judd stephens, June 12, 2012, 04:38:16 PM

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The events of Prometheus were decades before Alien... 30 years I think.

Prometheus is one of those movies that generates such widely divergent opinions. I think it depends on what people were hoping for going in. People who wanted a Cameron-like big-budget Hollywood spectacle were disappointed. People who wanted a prequel exploring how the aliens came about seemed to like it a lot.
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Quote from: drone on on November 15, 2012, 03:08:35 PM
What I thought was weird was the interior controls on the Prometheus looked way more advanced than the Nostromo.
The official answer is: When the Prometheus was built, they spared no expense and used all-current tech. The Nostromo was simply a long-haul towing ship for mined materials. It didn't need to be fancy, it just needed to work.
Mike Carss -- Altus : aural journeys for the mind's eye

Julio Di Benedetto

A co-worker said he recently saw a movie called Prometheus and was sort annoyed that the movie seemed to borrow quite heavily from the Alien movies, which he liked.   I told him it was the prequel to the Alien movies......with a look of astonishment he said "Now it all makes sense".  Suggest that Prometheus is that different that perhaps only Sci Fi junkies put it together, though I can't image how someone could not see the connection.
"Life is one big road, with lots of signs, so when you ride to the Roots, do not complicate your mind, ... "  Bob Marley

drone on

Hahaha!  If I ever need brain surgery I hope he's not involved in any way ;D

judd stephens

Well after a couple viewings on DVD after one theatrical viewing, I still hold it in a positive light. 

Just addressing a couple criticisms of the movie...  The Music:  Were people expecting a more "Alienesque" scarry ambient music?  I know I was at first, and the more melodic, slightly symphonic and choral music surprised me at first, but let's face it.  This movie is more of a grand beginning, an exploration with the highest of hopes, of the wonderment of a distant and remote world and culture unknown.... and the obvious melancholy, menacing undertones- the opening music (which also plays while David is toying around with the engineer's controls of the holographic universe) sets the scene perfectly.  Prometheus Theme Song

In fact the music has a more Star Trekkian feel and that's appropriate.  Big adventure, big stakes, and big discoveries, good and bad (well, mostly bad  :) )  The cold isolationist ambient of Alien isn't really the right tone you want. 

Anyway the Star Trek reference leads me to the next often criticism  The Dialogue- this was a very corporate, top-down mission for many of the members of the crew.  The parts where the captain is flying the ship, it all seems appropriately regimented, if not cheesy at times.  I just wonder if this criticism would have been leveled to the dialogue had this been a Star Trek movie, for example- doubtful.   I do love the spontaneous dialogue and free-for-all tension in Alien, and Ridley Scott said that he often "pushed the actors' buttons" while putting the camera on them.  There isn't much of that in Prometheus, and I would say the dialogue in Alien is better, but Prometheus does have a few moments of sheer WTF anachary as people are completely put out of their element. 

Also the character of the Captain:  for all the criticism of the geologist and the biologist, I really liked the Captain. There's more of his character than meets one viewing and upon second viewing I liked his acting and considered him the strongest and the hero of the 2nd tier characters. 

I understand the blu-ray version is pretty beefy with extras and has a fight scene between Shaw and the Engineer.  From the bits I saw and hearing Scott's explanation, he rightly left it out.  Also there's one extra scene I saw on the DVD I'm really glad they left out.  It was a fight between Hathaway and Shaw right before he unknowingly impregnates her with the alien.  It's just such a weird and unbelievable exchange, very much like Deckard and Rachel in Blade Runner, that it left me feeling relieved that they let it go...

Anyway rumor is the sequel will be called "Paradise", perhaps an ironic title for sure... looking forward to it.

drone on

Judd I totally agree with you on your post.  After watching it on DVD a couple times I was able to appreciate it much more, so I would encourage anyone who saw it in the theater and hated it to give it a second chance.  Yeah, the deleted scenes were dumb and RS made the right choice to leave them out. 

I hear RS is making a Blade Runner sequel and then "Paradise" follows. 

judd stephens

Welcome aboard DroneOn to the True Believer fanclub  ;)

I even heard there might be a Alien/Blade Runner tie-in but these are how crazy rumors get spread.  No matter how you slice it, it seems as if RS is going for Legacy-Franchise status. 

There is another apsect I forgot to mention that I noticed in the DVD but not in the movie.  Also thanks in part goes to that video of the Prometheus walkthrough:  Apparently there is a Christianity backstory that seems like it may very well get answered.  I didn't think much of it the first time but now it is so blatantly obvious after about 3 rounds of watching. 

The Prometheus walkthrough mentioned this and was using some outside references (even suggesting that Jesus may have been an Engineered superhuman or something), but look at the evidence:  The Engineers had been asleep for about 2000 years when they were embarking on their mission to destroy humanity.  The Prometheus vessel arrives on the planet Christmas Day- remember the captain setting up the tree?  Shaw's character is deeply religious and her faith is tested w/multiple references.  Her pregnancy is "immaculate" though with destruction and not with salvation. 

These are just some of the loose ends that have hardly been loosened, much less tied up.  It'll be interesting to see how it works out.  I'm not a big fan of any supernatural or Christian underpinnings so hopefully it steers clear of that direction. 

Another deleted scene I forgot about was between Vickers and Weyland.  It's basically the same thing where she "kisses him goodbye" in a not so warm fashion, she knows he's going to meet his fate, you learn she is his daughter, and it lasts a bit longer than the scene in the movie.  BTW how old was he when he had her?  I mean she looks about 30, he looks about 130!  Viagra of the future must be a hell of a drug... I actually liked the deleted scene better, and in it she does mention "that worm" or whatever squirming around in the medic room.  So it's as if they were aware of the alien but not of what it would turn into or that it would grow so quickly.   

I read something else that mentioned a possible debate within Shaw's character whether or not to attach the android's head in the sequel.  Sounds like she may continue to be suspicious of his motives even without Weyland in the picture.  I have to wonder that she would need him fully equipped, in body to help her at all, assuming the Engineers will be hostile, but who knows?  Maybe the aliens will be running the madhouse, and strange alliances develop... such a vast landscape in front for this 2nd movie, no idea how they'll do it, but eager to see.

drone on

Yeah, the Christianity theme was pretty blatant on my second viewing.  I also liked the longer scene better between weyland n vickers.  Forgot about that.  One mystery for me is what looked like a queen alien on the wall of the shrine room.  Did I imagine that???  I'm thinking, could this be the Engineers' god?  there's a closeup of it at one point.

judd stephens

You didn't imagine it.  The alien is a form of a crucifix... just wait till the fundamentalists hear about this  :)

drone on

So what do you think this means?  The Xenomorphs created the Engineers, or what?? I'm confused.

judd stephens

I think I'll let the mystery be on this one, DroneOn.  There are couple half-baked ideas but just wackiness I haven't really thought it through at this point.  "thought it through"- yeah like there's really some kind of logical process in all of this!

drone on

Judd, I think it would be really cool if in "Paradise" Shaw and David find out the "real" aliens are the xenomorphs and that the Engineers were "robots", or genetic machines if you will, created by the xenomorphs, which will show how technology can get so streamlined with genetics and everything that it's hard to tell what is manufactured and what is a living being.  I don't know if this is one of the wacky ideas being tossed around, but I guess I really want the xenomorphs to be the real aliens because the Engineers looked like WWF wrestlers.   ;D

judd stephens

I'll have to get back to you DroneOn, but in the meantime, if anyone needs a refresher, as long as this may remain up on youtube:

drone on

I forget whose post it was but recently someone referred to the crew landing on the "planet."  Wasn't it actually a moon?

drone on

PS: that link is not available due to copyright claim by Fox.   :(

judd stephens

Quote from: drone on on November 28, 2012, 03:26:29 PM
Judd, I think it would be really cool if in "Paradise" Shaw and David find out the "real" aliens are the xenomorphs and that the Engineers were "robots", or genetic machines if you will, created by the xenomorphs, which will show how technology can get so streamlined with genetics and everything that it's hard to tell what is manufactured and what is a living being.  I don't know if this is one of the wacky ideas being tossed around, but I guess I really want the xenomorphs to be the real aliens because the Engineers looked like WWF wrestlers.   ;D

Are the xenomorphs really that intelligent?  I find it hard to imagine the prototypical Alien with his fangs and claws, looking through microscopes and holding delicate beakers!  They just don't seem like they have the patience if you will.  But it's pretty clear from Prometheus that the whole life generating and changing "goo" found in the vases became the xenomorphs (through the help of both human pregnancy and the engineer as the hosts), at least the one at the end of the movie.  Maybe if your scenario were true the original xenomorphs have far greater intelligence and are more evolved, wherein the aliens we are familiar with are just combinations of genetic breeding.  Not sure I'd be satisfied with that direction, but there is definitely the question of where the engineers came from and how exactly they were able to engineer anything (the best sci-fi explanation), if they decide to answer that at all.

Too bad that link went down, I watched it once more and thinking later, I may have caught a movie mistake:

Remember when Shaw stumbles into Weyland's room after the surgery?  There are numerous people surrounding him, including David and the "bodyguard" guy who ends up dying by the hands of the Engineer in the bridge.  I seem to remember a few extra people in that room- there were 2 very identical looking guys standing guard right at the door.  Is it me or were they completely unaccounted for later- happened to them?  Only people who died in the bridge of the Engineer ship were Weyland, the "bodyguard", the woman with the thick Scottish accent... anyone else?  It seemed some of Weyland's attendants were completely cut out and forgotten about- wouldn't they have come to the bridge of the Prometheus ship as it was taking off without Weyland (and about to go head-first into the other ship)?

Maybe they were in the rover waiting outside the big dome while all that was going down and never had time to make it back...


well I've just got this on Blu Ray - will watch sometime soon.


Got it on blu-ray as well recently but have not watched it. I guess I'll have to pay attention to this closely to give any thoughts/questions when I get around to watching it. Who are these engineers?

drone on

Let us know how all the extras are on the bluray!  :)


I've watched this twice now and have to say that I was surprised I enjoyed it so much.

I've decided to write my thoughts without rereading all the previous comments. I may repeat what others have said but I may also add new ingredients.

The filming is stunning, the sets great and the effects awesome.

I was already aware of the 'reality' issue of Dr Shaw running around after major surgery - so perhaps I was less 'shocked' when i saw it, i also thought I am watching a film about Aliens creating us, so perhaps suspending belief can accomodate this.

I felt that the film was similar to the original 'Alien' because it leaves more questions than answers, which I like (rather than the franchise sequels which seemed to focus on the singular visceral battle between humans and aliens).

I also like that it opens the field up to a range of possible presequel sequels - including following Dr Shaw's journey or further exploring the evolution of the 'Alien'.

I thought the film had more characters than the original but mostly less developed. I thought it was lazy to have the neurotic weedy mapper and the geeky biologist as the negative characters that die off first. At least the negative characters in the original also had 'heroic' moments as well.

I was surprised that the guy who maps the complex got lost...... :o

There were a number of continuity flaws, including lots of flashing lights in the long shots during the storm rescue, but none in the close shots. also where did David get that solid looking ladder? the captain asked the 2 lost guys "where are you" when they were clearly indicated in the 3D map.

Similar to the original alien where the blood dissolves floors but but is staunched by a cotton wool swab, the helmet of the mapper is affected but nothing else touch by the copious spray is.

I thought the range of Alien lifeforms was interesting and again raised more questions than answers - the worms arising as soon as they stepped into the inner sanctum showed that it was not all in storage. The thing in the other doctors eye and the initial moving of the top of the vessel david looked at. I have read that these may indicate an evolution of the alien lifeform, but they seemed different and seperate to me, even if the procreation methods were similar for most.

The different effects of some alien life on human, why is that?

Why did the vase david picked up neither ooze nor have the top become less solid?

I thought the use of the huge deaths-head carving on the  outside wall was unecessary - it was so big they would have seen it going in.

Why did the dead engineers head explode?

Why did shaw and the vickers run along the line of the falling spaceship when a sideways movement of very little would have been easier?

why would such a clever race of beings create a cache of extremely dangerous (even to themselves) living biological weapons to destroy humanity (and or others) when a mass delivery in aerosol form of the DNA breakdown liquid would be much safer?

The extras include a slightly different beginning a few extended or deleted scenes and the fight between Shaw and the last engineer was longer - it included a small part where the engineer saw the replay of the message sent that included the girl playing the violin. Although no sound you could see the engineer was understanding that the humans could play music, and this seemed to make a difference, like recognising a companion soul - until he tried to kill Shaw anyway.

I noted david called dr Shaw Lisbeth when complimenting her on getting the alien out of her stomache - a subtle reference to her earlier films....

My two penneth worth....